[Tropi]

I have been thinking about this Tyre Truing Post ever since and I'd like to take a slightly sideways look at a point that came up in the discussion.

Health and Safety is an incredible rolling stone, in my opinion, going way too far and stultifying both business and fun in the process. But neither can we just ignore it - not in these days of casual litigation where 'someone' has to be blamed for everything that ever happens to some people.

I am thinking particularly about clubs, their premises and some of the activity that is likely to take place there. Tyre grinding or truing is an obvious one. Soldering is another. Possibility of fire risks or electrical accidents, battery power and its associated acid hazard and hydrogen emissions. I know it's rather depressing to think about, but maybe we need to consider it, at least a little.

The mental picture of a kid using a Dremel for tyre grinding was what made the possibility of a nasty accident rather vivid. My own version of this great little tool is capable of 27,000 rpm. That is plenty high enough to whip a little rubber tyre straight into your eye - or someone else's. Should just 'anyone' be allowed to use these powerful little tools without any training or supervison? Who is responsible if someone's kid slices his finger off with a rotary cutter - or damages someone else other than himself?

Sllghtly off topic, but associated - I understand that it may already be illegal to either buy or hire a chain-saw without some form of licence. Is this the thin end of the wedge - the start of a gradual trend towards banning power tools in general?

Just wondering if anyone else has thought about this and particularly whether clubs have had problems with accidents or thoughts on insuring against liability for them.

 

[Intergrali]

QUOTE The mental picture of a kid using a Dremel for tyre grinding was what made the possibility of a nasty accident rather vivid. My own version of this great little tool is capable of 27,000 rpm. That is plenty high enough to whip a little rubber tyre straight into your eye - or someone else's. Should just 'anyone' be allowed to use these powerful little tools without any training or supervison? Who is responsible if someone's kid slices his finger off with a rotary cutter - or damages someone else other than himself?

whoa re you calling a kid?

also, I was drilling out a hub, and the bit gripped and spun the wheel out my hand... oops!

anywho, there is no chance of me hurting anyone with it as most people hear it and simply stay away! and yes, I have bought some safety gooogles.

Inte
p.s at least I was sober.... Slik!
p.p.s I dont think that they should be banned just people need to take more care doing those "oh it'll be done in 3 seconds!"

 

[slik]

Hey there!

This is something I have been thinking about in the last few days (I haven't read the tyre truing thread here yet but will do after posting this). I have been asked to write some technical articles and the like for a slot site (don't ask which one because I won't say right now) and am very aware of the safety implications of using power tools, hobby knives and super glue. This of course gets multiplied ten-fold when you consider that it may be quite a young child who is reading your article, after all most children have access to a computer these days and I should think a large percentage of these to the internet. Litigation is something we all have to be so very careful about these days but ignoring that for a moment I would feel terrible (not really nearly a strong enough word) to know that something I have written has indirectly caused the loss of an eye or other body part of anybody.

I intend to also do an article on safety but even this can be loaded with problems. Somebody reads something the wrong or misunderstands and again disaster can happen.

slik.

 

[Tropi]

I completely forgot to mention super glue - a bad omission on my part, so thanks, Slik, for the reminder!

Reminds me of another restriction that I do know about - traditional impact adhesives are no longer on the shelves, at least not at B & Q - this apparently due to the danger of solvent abuse by kiddies. You can still get it, but have to make arrangements at the checkout rather than just shoving a tub or tube into your trolley as you trundle up and down the aisles.

 

[Swissracer]

Good topic !
Don't think I have seen this come up before.

I have to admit to not wearing goggles for slot car work of any kind and I have an engineering / electrical background

Apart from Inte' who does wear them...

Does anyone else? or are we all chancers ?

and Tropi... PLEASE tell me you didn't engineer this thread JUST to use your child unfriendly smilies !!?

When my son tries to do that to my daughter - I will be round your gaff OK?

Where DO you get them all?

 

[bwaminispeed]

Actually,one of the bigger dangers from grinding trires,is not impact damage from flying treads,but,some tires give off quite noxious fumes when ground,as well as the general particulate matter as dust.

I believe Fish rubber gives off Cyanide fumes,or some other equally deadly gases.

 

[GRAH1]

Health and saftey is a very relevant subject these days with every body and his brother jumping on the Ive been hurt band waggon and most of have done it at one time car accidents etc,being a regional manager of a large multi national company I am very aware of the problems involved in the use of toxic and hazardous substances and the use of power tools in the work place ,and for a long time have worried about the use of substances in slot racing .Personally I have an intollerance to super glue and avoid the use of such things where ever possible ,and have been trying to get our club to abandon the use of rubber tyres and switch to silicon to reduce the amount of substances needed to give competitive times.Motor racing is dangerous and as such any participant should be made aware of the dangers ,In the 60s model and allied press used to offer insurance for clubs at a reasonable rate I dont know if this is still available but I will take the time to find out and post any details on this board,but for now Ill get down off my soap box
Graham

 

[Doug]

Good points guys.

Who would of thought this hobby to have dangers?

When I was a kid with my Scalextric, the only danger was getting shocked from time to time on the 12 volt transformers that we had to wire up by hand. I think that those transformers made us into the engineers that we are today giving us ideas to wire up a whole bunch of other stuff. This got me thinking about voltages: Aren't today's tracks pushing out a little more than they used to, this is something to think about too - probably why most European manufacturers recommend the minimum age for safe use at 14 years.

 

[jonny s]

Good grief! Health and safety has always been an issue since mankind used to have to go out and hunt without being eaten. It`s called common sense. In addition as I feel that some of the above is aimed at me let me explain that at Phoenix I have a £10 Million Public Liabiality Insurance policy with NFU that covers me (costs (£47 a week!). Don`t tell me that all you have gone to that length to cover your club and visitirs and public when I`ve been to your club. Don`t forget the speed at wich cars travel on a club track can damage a childs hand befopre anything else is considered. When preparing a car in that uses tools and equipment then children do so at Phoenix under supervision by an adult, in fact with the help of an adult. Every aspect of Slot car preparation can involve some form of risk either from tools or equipment. In having a risk assesment carried out at the club by the Insurers then they advise and insure for that risk so you can sleep more easily at night. to be set up and running correctly does cost but you have to do it nowadays.

 

[Tropi]

QUOTE When my son tries to do that to my daughter - I will be round your gaff OK?
Oooops, sorry! Forgot about the Swiss Mini-rolls!
Seriously, if those sort of things upset anyone, I will remove them.
But sometimes, a little shock-horror is a good way to penetrate our sometimes desensitized and casual approach to potential accidents and humour can be a good way to ancourage retention of the dangers.

I am still debating whether to submit this one to my construction company's Health & Safety Department.

ALWAYS WEAR A HARD HAT IN CONSTRUCTION ZONES

 

[jonny s]

Very good mate. Just need one that`s more on topic and then I`ll gladly post them around my club!

 

[Tropi]

Jon
The topic was definitely not 'aimed at' you, but at the lot of us - just a little wake-up call.
At the same time, I reckoned you above all of us were almost certainly going to come up trumps with how you and your club approached the problem in practical terms and my faith was well justified - thanks!

Looking at the points I missed and that others are filling in, I can see that, by the time this topic runs its course, we could have arrived at a really practical basis for a sensibly safe approach to slot car hazards that could benefit us all in the long run.

 

[Jimmy in Greece]

All these posts make me wonder how I ever survived to reach my ripe old age. Could it have been common sense and adult supervision, maybe. Most of the damgerous stuff I learned while someone who was qualified watched and made sure I didn't kill myself the first time. After that I was on my own. Some real dangerous stuff, like not scewing my food before swallowing, I learned the hard way. I guess some warnings are warranted but lets not go all lemming and rush over the cliff. Even at 53 I still fall prey to certain things like trying to get off a motorbike at 40mph. (still doesn't after all these years)
Jim

 

[Intergrali]

Trop, (this is an Inte think fact) I think all the members on this particular board are 16+ (bar mini swiss), that means we can all buy knives, contact adhesives cigarettes and light fluid.. we I can anyway!

I think that the people who wear glasses rr3.9 Grah, I think you wear them too? dont see the need in protection gooogles, I was speaking to 3.9 the other day about laser eye treatment, and he was saying that he was happyer having glasses having the hindsight of what had happened in the past.

Admittedly, my parents also have a lot to do with what you can have too, like they wont let me buy ciggy's but will let me buy knife blades and dremel parts, the other thing is, a friend gives me superglue, so he obviously sees me sensible enough to use it in the right way. However if you knew your child was a paramanic, you wouldnt let them buy lighter fluid and lighters now would you? that would just be stupid!

I'll get my poncho now..

Inte

 

[jonny s]

Just got in from the club after 35 youngsters raced in the morining and 32 this afternoon. Happy to report that all survived but I was concerned about two Parma electronic controllers that blew. Quite loudly and made the room go quiet for a mo at least. Common sense and good insurance has to be the answer.

I`m off to a chinese buffet now, unless of course we crash on the way or the waiter slips and kills me by breaking his fall, then again there is a story that Chinese food makes you blind but then my Granny said that playing with yourself would do that and I can still see staraight enough to view the last curve! (both the track version and on the girlies!).

 

[Tropi]

QUOTE and I can still see staraight
You SURE about that Jon?

Sounds like the kids had fun!

 

[jonny s]

Yes mate but the truth is I`m seeing loads of track curves and not many girlies! Although I did persuade two lovely young ladies to do the pit dolly part at Phoenix end of year presentation bash.

Yes a lot of kids but normal for a Saturday. I`m leaving srapaul and my youngest lad `slider` to run the club tomorrow whilst I swan off to Brands to meet up with GT team,Scalextric folk and some nice people from Get Slotted.

Bit worried about those controllers now. We have got a couple of gadget guys in the club who can check them out so will see what the problem is. Is suspect they are configured for 12 Volt and we are running Ninco at nearly 16 volt.

I did notice nobody replied to the point about insurance? Guys!! whoever runs the annual meeting will have to bite the bullet too and get public liability insurance. That`s the last I`m going to say on that subject for a while.

 

[Doug]

QUOTE (jonny s @ 27 Sep 2003, 11:23 PM)... I`m leaving srapaul and my youngest lad `slider` to run the club tomorrow whilst I swan off to Brands to meet up with GT team,Scalextric folk and some nice people from Get Slotted...
Please say 'Hi' from us to the Scaley chaps tomorrow. Ask Adrian to post on the forum a little more than he has up until now.

We hope that your car does well, please take photos and post them later.

Doug

 

[jonny s]

Thanks mate. I appreciate that a lot. I know some people read this and think that it`s all about money and stuff but it`s not at all like that. The team guys are great news, down to earth and to be straight there is not money there.

I will say hi to Adrian and also this... I`m gonna ask the team to put up a special prize to SF. Nuro, you decide what the prize is for but I`m gonna organise two VIP passes to any round of the British GT Championship in G.B. or at Spa in Belgium for our mates over the pond. It`ll be your prize to give out mate.

Did you catch the pics of the car on the annual meeting thread? Swiss posted them for me. I asked him to put the pics on the front page of the site so all can see and then with exsposure and if people like what they see let`s look at getting the SF logo/banner on the car? Talk to me guys....

 

[slik]

Hey there!

What a cool prize, another great idea. I love your get up and go, quite inspiring.

Cheers,

slik.