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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Before you start to read this, let me say one thing. 2/3rds of my slot cars are Fly cars. I love the detail in these. Hands and feet above the rest in the bodies.

Having been involved with diecast car collecting and manufacturing for about 10 years including a lot of research and development work with GMP (www.gmpdiecast.com) in various 1/18th scale projects and their 1/12th GT-40 series...I KNOW GREAT DETAIL WHEN I SEE IT!

this is my layout...



Just about 95 feet of Carrera 2 lane track. Fastest times on this track are 7.1 seconds for lane 1 and 6.9 seconds for lane 2. These times were accomplished with Scalextric Sport Mustang and the Red #3 GT-40.

I can't get a Fly car with a front mounted engine to run anywhere near as fast.

Now read on for the BMW...

Although the FLY BMW CSL is a GREAT looking car it needed a fair amount of work.

I drive with some magnet preferred. Most guys may not appreciate this but this is MY preference. Controlled Sliding is cool but I like a combination of control and handling with some speed. I don't overload them but some cars need just tick more than what they came with, in my opinion. I added one Radio Shack rare earth magnet and it was just enough to clean up some desloting that was going on with me.

Rear tires needed a lot of sanding but it is a decent rubber compound, grips nicely. I had not even run the car yet until I had sanded the rears. Very close on the tire/fender opening but no rubbing and after sanding, the clearance was just that much better.

The FRONT wheels were the problem. After sanding the rear wheels, I put this on the track and it was obviously holding back. Checked the fronts and we're see the front axles flopping like a 90 year old grandmother doing jumping jacks. When the car was on the track, the tires rubbed so badly on the fenders that they did not even turn. Body off, out with the dremel and just rounded out the openings ever so slightly as well as removing body from the inside of the wheel wells.

Turning attention to the Axle shafts...When is Fly going to re-engineer these?

Every damn car I own that uses these freaking axle shafts flop, wobble and just plain do not work as designed!!!!

Tightening the axle shafts causes them to be too tight affecting the potential of the car and backing off just a tad causes the flopping...there does not seem to be a happy medium. By the way, these washers are standard #4 washers found in any hardware store here in the US and thanks to the design with the axle shafts, my personal opinion is these are here to make one beleive that Fly is doing something to eliminate slop. They are not effective at all.

Yeah, I could drill them out and sleeve the the front axles but why should all this work be needed? Design the fricking chassis so the motor sits back on the chassis 1/4 inch (usually less than 1/4 inch in most cases) and put a straight axle in them...it can't be that damned hard when creating a new car expecially when the chassis requires a new mold! I have been involved with the tool and molding process of plastic and diecast. Allowing for the motor to clear a straight axle for the front wheels is cheaper than casting all the various parts. The flopping half shafts only allow for the body to roll and eventually deslot whereas the straight, solid front axle will provide a more stable front end. The only other thing these half shafts allow is for excessive flopping of the wheels as was the case on mine.

case in point...I have a Ferrari Coda Lunga that had these half shafts in it. It ran like crap out of the box thanks to these shafts. But the motor sits back just enough and I replaced the half shafts with a 3/32 rod. Now it runs great.

The car looks good...but looks are not everything. I am not opposed to doing some tuning, but a major rebuild should not be needed and rebuilding the front end is just that...a major rebuild! I am starting to go with the rest of the gang and start holding off from buying anymore Fly cars. the quality issue is just too hit or miss these days.
 

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mm nice review.. mine were fine just ma wheels fell off, and so I spoke to aaron and he sent me a nice new axle so all is fine and dandy fank yar aaron
 

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If my eyes don't deceive me you have a Trans Am Camaro and Mustang sat on the side of that dream track there.

And your lap record is with a GT40?

Accepting that you have had a few difficulties with the Fly BMW, you should send the Camaro and the Mustang back also if they cannot beat the living daylights out of a GT40.

They are so quick they are banned at the club I go too!



Moped

PS I am going mad by the way! For some reason I read your "Mustang" as "GT40"!


However, I am still surprised that a GT40 can hold its own with a Mustang.
 

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QUOTE However, I am still surprised that a GT40 can hold its own with a Mustang.

with some quick reactions and a good controller, I'm not
 

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I can't see why a Scalextric GT40 would not hold its own with a Scalextric Mustang.
They both have the same motor but the GT40 is both lighter and lower.
I note that Brian's track, is Carrera, which will reduce, if not eliminate the possibility of magnet superiority dictating the times - an excellent thing in my view, and Brian makes it clear that he prefers the cars not to be 'nailed down'.

Brian, a magnificent track!
It's interesting to compare your findings on the CSL 350 with those of Noisy Muse over at SCI. Do you think you were very unlucky or Noisy Muse was very lucky? From your comments on the motor placement etc, it would seem that your recommended 1/4 inch adjustment in designed motor position and the fitment of an orthodox 1-piece front axle in the original design brief would eliminate the problem anyway and would seem an intelligent consideration for Fly in similar cars for the future.
I hope they pick up on this constructive suggestion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
QUOTE (Tropi @ 15 Feb 2004, 12:14 AM)I can't see why a Scalextric GT40 would not hold its own with a Scalextric Mustang.
They both have the same motor but the GT40 is both lighter and lower.
I note that Brian's track, is Carrera, which will reduce, if not eliminate the possibility of magnet superiority dictating the times - an excellent thing in my view, and Brian makes it clear that he prefers the cars not to be 'nailed down'.

Brian, a magnificent track!
It's interesting to compare your findings on the CSL 350 with those of Noisy Muse over at SCI. Do you think you were very unlucky or Noisy Muse was very lucky? From your comments on the motor placement etc, it would seem that your recommended 1/4 inch adjustment in designed motor position and the fitment of an orthodox 1-piece front axle in the original design brief would eliminate the problem anyway and would seem an intelligent consideration for Fly in similar cars for the future.
I hope they pick up on this constructive suggestion.
Exactly Tropi...The mustang is running stock magnets on it fore and aft (button and bar magnets) with the same configuration on the Red #3 gt-40. Both cars are outfitted with Supertires.

The GT-40 is just a bit leaner than stock...due to my 7 year old knocking a few peices off the car. What is really funny is that there is a small but very thin rear deck spoiler on the GT-40...or I should say there was. The spoiler was a victim to a nasty crash and it actually resulted in the car picking up a tenth of a second.

And yes...both are scalextric Sport versions. What is really strange is the other Sport GT-40's in the Gulf liveries are no where near as fast as this red one.

The Fly GT-40's can't hold a candle to anything from Scalextric.

Getting back to my main point on this whole topic is the front axles of the Fly cars...if they were anything like the scalextric cars...these would be the cars that will set the bar higher for all the rest!

I can't tell you if I have been unlucky or not since everyone of the cars with the same front axle setups are about the same. All I know is the one Ferrari that allowed for a straight axle was a new car after the switch! Interesting? I think so. I hope they are listening.

By the way, Tropi...thanks for the kind words on my track. It is my first one that I have done...from uncut lumber for the tables to semi-finished layout took 5 weeks to build. I am still tweaking the landscaping just a bit and some more lights to install yet...all thing in good time!
 

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QUOTE I hope they are listening.
Even if they are listening,they don't seem to care.This subject has been brought up over and over,and I know it has been told to them directly by some very knowledgeable an influential people in the slot car industry.But,they just don't want to hear it.

This has been a known problem since the first car they ever built.The fix(which was not a real fix of the problem[sloppy front wheels],but a bandade to mask the problem,and at least allow the car to run)at that time was a set of small washers between the body posts and the chassis.This was supplied by Fly,in the box,with instructions for the customer on how to install them.

They make what they want,how they want,and to whatever scale they want,and could care less what anybody else would like to see fixed.They don't acknowledge tires rubbing on the bodies as a problem,so they sure aren't going to bother to fix it.
 

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I assume that they would listen and do something about it if people were to send back cars that have wheels that do not go round properly. If the returning numbers of cars were large it would surely become a problem for Fly. Also since EU has regulations regarding how products are supposed to work according to promise - there is a legal side to this as well. As long as some-one states that they are making cars that are to be sold as slotcars - the customer has some rights to expect that those cars actually run on a track - without having to rebuild them in any way. Unless ofcourse the company start to sell them as 'kits' or 'models' that 'easily' can be 'adjusted' to slotcar racing. But that is then not RTR slotcars anymore...



And let us remember that the UK distributor has made a very forwardcoming proposal to the UK customer. If the car does not work - send it back. Fair I think.


//peter
 

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QUOTE (peter @ 15 Feb 2004, 04:57 PM)And let us remember that the UK distributor has made a very forwardcoming proposal to the UK customer. If the car does not work - send it back. Fair I think.


//peter
That may be all well and good IF you are buying direct from Fly...but, as many are seeing here in the US, many dealers are now putting disclaimers on their websites stating unless you request the cars be completely checked out (at additional cost in some cases), either no return or a huge restocking fee WILL be assessed. You can say..."don't buy from them" but if you are a first time buyer from that dealer and glaze over a sight with out reading the fine (and in some cases I DO mean fine) print, you're screwed, blued and tatooed!

When you buy from a dealer, most manufactures require you go back through your dealer before going to them. So when you buy a particular companies product from a dealer and the dealer refuses you, you only have one option to go through the manufacture. Not so easy when you are dealing with companies that are overseas from the US then add to it that your emails get lost in the great data transfer and no reply is ever received.

In the diecast industry...this is seen all the time. When I was working with GMP...there was a policy in place that you went through your dealer first. If there was further problems with that dealer, then go through GMP and explain the problem with the dealer. GMP would then investigate the dealer and if need be, cut them off if persistent problems occured with many of GMP's customers buying through that dealer. Bottom line was that GMP ALWAYS returned an email to the customer and ALWAYS took care of that customer.

I have sent emails to Scalextric which is the US distributor for FLY but it is apparently falling on deaf ears (or in the case of email...blind eyes). This gives the basis for the customer impression that FLY does care not any amount of fecal matter to what the customer needs and that is when the Fly bashing starts. About the only thing I have seen so far that Fly is really interested in regarding their dealer network is the whether or not the dealer is advertising the price of the slot car below their suggested selling price. For the dealers...try it once and you might get away with it...continue to do it and Fly has the right to cut you off entirely!

You want an example? Ask most people of what they feel about Exoto Diecast products. They are one of the best in so far as detail goes in diecast, but if you have a question regarding a factual detail on an actual racing car as compared to their replicated product or a customer service need...they do not respond unless you have spent $10,000 USD in their product line...it seems only then do they consider you a valued customer. If they do respond, it is only to make a mockery out of your question or need in an open forum such as this.

So sending back the car if it does not work is not always an option and even less of one if the manufacture will not listen and allows the dealer to do with their product as he wishes.

Now most will say that FLY listens..."look at the BMW...they put flat washers on the front axles" but I've got news for you...that was like trying to stop a leak in a dam with chewing gum...it simply does not work. I can put flat washers on anything and the only real thing it does is space the tires out further from the chassis. It NEEDS to be re-engineered!

By the way...my reasons for posting this in this forum is not to bash Fly, or Fly swat as it has been put. From what I am told, however...Fly themselves, if only it is Fly Representatives, read and monitor this forum and no other. Since emails are not replied to, voicing legitimate concerns here is in hoping that Fly will read them.
 

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Interesting. In order to negotiate the bumps at Oxford I generally loosen all my half-shaft Fly fronts and/or fit lower profile tyres to give the wheels more vertical travel.

This week I'll be able to christen my two Fly GT-40s, it will be interesting to see how they perform with their solid front axle.

Half-shafts or solid, I don't really care - just as long as there is vertical movement.

Ditto on the nice track comments. Any chance of posting a view from the other end? Some of us poor saps don't have permanent set ups and have to feed our addictions by proxy.
 

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however if you know what your buying.. who cares?!

and if we did send all the non working cars back, we wouldnt have any at all!

Rob.
 

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Although understanding why you want floppy wheels, they are a very poor answer.
A drop arm is the real answer for bumpy tracks, but I guess we are not going to see them.
The next best thing would seem to be the very lightly spring loaded Ninco guides.
How do they perform at bumpy Oxford?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Harry over HRW was kind enough to host pictures for me as well as Gene Slotcarplace.com.

Here's the link Hootersville Raceway

Also here is some of the night racing shots using the installed highway lights. The only lights on in the room when these were taken were just the track lights...













 

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Hmmm, not really sure. Fact is I don't really know which of my cars have the spring loaded do da. That could mean that it is a sound solution and is quietly doing the business of negotiating the hurdles.

Would my M3 have it? She's a beast and hurtles around, occasionally slapping her tail against the barriers and only deslotting through imprudent use of the trigger, as opposed to odd offs whilst running over the bumps on the 'Mulsanne straight' which is what my Scaley 40 does.

But I think the M3 also benefits from a floating front axle and Ninco give 'em a lot of movement.

Thinking about it, don't all my recent SCX have the floating guide concept? They all run well and the 4x4s all have a solid front shaft.

My preference would be for more half-shafts because then you don't have the problem of the inner wheel wanting to turn slower than the outer.
 

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Well and truly cool, Brian. If I had but life enough and time... thanks for all your erudite and inspiring posts!

Just one thing more... 'cheese my shorts?'

Now I've been following the Simpsons, the Sopranos, ER, West Wing, you name it. But that one leaves my jaw hanging.
 

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QUOTE don't all my recent SCX have the floating guide concept?
I am sure they have, but imho, the fairly coarse brass leaf springs used by SCX are not as effective as the light coil spring used by Ninco. A bit of judicious bending of the SCX 'leaves' can improve things though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
QUOTE (howmet tx @ 16 Feb 2004, 11:13 AM)Just one thing more... 'cheese my shorts?'

Now I've been following the Simpsons, the Sopranos, ER, West Wing, you name it. But that one leaves my jaw hanging.
Although I was saying it as a way of noting my dissatisfation...need I really get graphic on this?

ah...let's see...think of the worse skid marks you have ever seen, then think of your shorts...now change the color and...
 
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