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Its mentioned this month about being more open with the minutes, why not post them on here?

Then everyone can see and theres no rumours.

Ive been a member for 3 years, Ive also served on quite a few committees etc at work and know it takes time to build expertise and people should be given time to grow into their role.

Having said that it does appear something has kicked off at NSCC recently!
 

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Jamie Coles
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I have no wish to upset members of the NSCC as I need their votes ...when an election is determined to be held. ( I wrote to the Secretary and Chairman a month ago with my comments but have yet to hear back - although the Chairman has no email and is relying upon the Secretary to pass on his correspondence - according to the latest Journal).

I am pleased that the new Chairman wished to make the Committee decisions and minutes more open - which I am sure I am not the only one welcoming this, especially as there are too many rumours about what has occured over the last few months.

I can understand Montoya's comments as it would seem that a number of changes have happened, without the membership having knowledge of the whys and wherefores, hence the promise of openess is a welcoming one.

@ bensonuts - It was me who editted my own response - purely on the basis of not wishing to cause disquiet amongst the NSCC and of washing linen in public... surely a number 2 wash would suffice in the privacy of one's own home !! But -if you saw it - it WAS all true.

As far as a members' club posting minutes on an open forum, I do not feel that would be correct, but keeping the decisions of a handful of people which affect some 1,000 tio themselves is NOT a good idea.. Maybe the number of members has dropped below 1,000, and if it has I would ask the current, or rather the longer standing Committee Members why this is, and more importantly what they are doing about it.

I am hoping that the nexty elections will be held in September and I promise that if I get elected as Secretary I will respond fast, try to spell correctly and promise as much openess as possible.

I will also kiss most babies and nerf you at the first opportunity !!

J-C
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
QUOTE (corvette @ 14 Mar 2010, 18:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Its mentioned this month about being more open with the minutes, why not post them on here?
I can think of lots of reasons:

1) It was recently estimated that something like 50% of the membership have no Internet access at home.

2) Much of what was discussed was made public anyway - cars, events, etc. I usually tried to get out a Chairman's Chat after a Committee meeting in order to cover other issues.

3) Not everything discussed is suitable for publication.

4) Many discussions take place between the meetings.
 

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I struggle to believe that 50% of people have no internet access at home these days


Even if that were true , that means 50% of people could be informed immediately of pertinent info . Surely the other 50% could use work/friend/public access if they wanted ?
I've just started a new NSCC thread looking for positive ideas for the future


Geoff
 

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Z cars

Do you know why minutes are kept?

do you know who has a right to see them?

and what should be included in them?

So the decision not to publish minutes is based upon the fact that the club only has 50% of members personal email addresses on file, so this means that they do not have home web access. Thats one hell of an assumption. do we have all members phone numbers?

The all or nothing arguement at least assures equality for all the members, this sounds like something from a Stalinist republic.

I cannot find the club constituiton on the NSCC site, pressumably this is covered by the same publication restrictions?

I have no desire to shoot the messanger here, but the more information that leaks out, paints a not too encouraging picture of how our club is being or has been run.

Lets hope it improves in the future and we can read first hand what has been done on our behalf, as we are all liable for the committees actions.

BSN
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Minutes were never published in the Newsletter/Journal. I do not know whether the Secretary can/will provide a copy on request as I'm not aware that the question ever arose during the three years I was on the Committee. Perhaps you could ask him? I suspect that because they weren't published in the past, they simply continued to be "unpublished" - even after the dawn of the www.

We did briefly consider whether we could set up a "Members Only" section of the NSCC web site. Were such a section available, I would support the idea of publishing minutes there. I would not support the idea of publishing them in an open forum - either here or on the Club's own site. I suppose we could have e-mailed them but this was never considered.

As to the point about 50%, I concede that figure might be higher if web access from work was included but that is an assumption the Club cannot make on our members' behalves. Web access is also available from many libraries. Nevertheless, there would be justifiable resentment if a proportion of our members were made "Second Class" because they don't have a computer at home. We took the view that annoying a substantial portion of our membership was a bad idea.

That said, the Club's now 30 years old and things change. The Internet does afford a cheap communication channel, which has an increasing impact on everyone's life. My own view is that I see little wrong in using it to add benefit to members, which they may or may not choose to take advantage of - particularly if there is little or no cost involved.

BSN's point about members' liability is correct. I believe this would be better addressed by incorporation - not by worrying about how or whether minutes are published.
 

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Jamie Coles
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I have asked for a copy of the minutes but was told I could not see them.

I would understand that there maybe some commercially confident material in them, but if the minutes provide details of the decisions taken on behalf of the membership I felt we should have visibility.

j-c
 

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As usual with forum topics this one has strayed a long way from the original subject - Peter (ZCARS) raised the subject of three year elections - not recent committee changes or publication of the minutes. I suspect that it has been hijacked deliberately by those with a connection to a small town in Surrey who have a political axe to grind.

However, as the subject of publishing minutes has been raised - can anybody tell me another club which publishes committee minutes? Most clubs keep committee discussions private for very good reasons - only the result of those discussions are communicated to members.

Why do you want to read the minutes? I was a committee member for 9+ years - I frequently lost the will to live during meetings and I certainly never read the minutes when they were sent to me! Committee meetings of any club are the most boring things in the known universe unless there is the occasional prospect of a good row!

99% of NSCC members really couldn't give a toss about such things - so long as the magazine drops through their letterbox once a month, an exclusive car is provided on a regular basis and the club organises some events now and then they are happy.

Yes, here have been some personnel changes on the committee recently and I am sure that the secretary would enlighten you as to the exact reasons if you were to ask him instead of bleating on a public website.
 

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3 yearly elections, not a good idea. It smacks of a closed shop and jobs for the boys. Lets keep it at annual elections, most of the time the same people put up for the various jobs anyway but at least annual elections give people the chance to show their willingness to get involved.

Nightrider
 

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Brian, I suspect that the desire to see the minutes (which I don't share) comes from frustration at large changes not being explained in any kind of detail to the membership. I would think it is not impossible to have the decisons made at the committee meetings online within a few days, and some proper depth to them given.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Brian,

QUOTE (CMOTD @ 18 Mar 2010, 18:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>However, as the subject of publishing minutes has been raised - can anybody tell me another club which publishes committee minutes? Most clubs keep committee discussions private for very good reasons - only the result of those discussions are communicated to members.
Thank you for these comments, with which I agree whole-heartedly.

And yes, my sole purpose in raising this thread was to bring members' attention to the vote about Committee terms. I felt that it was possible some members may have missed the reference to it in the Journal.
 

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Jamie Coles
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Brian,

I am not sure which small Surrey town you are referring to, but I hold my hand up as living in Frimley - and whilst we do have plenty of farmland and open spaces on our doorstep, the majority of the residents tend to speak in English rather than bleating!!

Whilst Peter's initial post was about the "buried" proposal to lengthen the time of NSCC posts the thread has evolved and widened to include other topics - like most threads on open forums seem to do.

First mention of the Committee minutes was made by Corvette - I can't tell their location, and the mention of the Committee changes was raised by Montoya- who hails from Shotgate in Essex.

I have declared a personal interest in the discussion and have also been open about the reason for my interest. I would hope this is not percieved as grinding an axe.

Whilst the Committee Meetings may have been a chore for you, personally, to attend and I'm not surprised that the minutes would also have been not on your "must read" list. However, I am sure you can understand that others don't feel the same way and wish to know what is happening to their Club.

As far as asking for a copy of the minutes, I have done so, and been told I can't have them, and only informed the Forom to avoid anyone thinking I was privy to anything secret.

As for the figure of 99% of members not giving a toss - I am guessing that IS a guess... or I missed that poll!!

J-c
 

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Now i understand a bit more why our last chairman resigned, being incorporated really does make sense for the club and its membership

steve
 

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As a member of only 5 years I've seen a lot of good things achieved by the Committee. I agree to a yearly election, that way if you aren't happy then you can vote. Equally other people may have the skills and have time to assist in developing the club. I didn't realise there was a 3 year proposal and wouldn't have if I didn't look at this forum for details on this years NSCC car! Are we going to see one?

Whilst I'm here.......
I am keen on minutes and would like to see the decisions made by the committee. A decision made and the reason for it can only be good when you want to rebuild credibility. I find it difficult to accept that a member can't see minutes of a meeting when requested.

The Journal hit a serious low last year and I was beginning to wonder what was happening with the club. Suppose I could have contacted someone but didn't.....apathy rules. However the recent changes to the Journal have made a remarkable improvement. The club subscription was previously sold on the basis that you got a quality read and if you bothered to enter any of the numerous competitions you were likely to pick something up to cover the cost of the membership. We have recently seen one competition in over a year [Christmas 2009 only unless I missed the others]. There was a time when we had a competition per journal, have we no longer got the goodies to give away?

On the subject of internet access, if it's 'No minutes' because members don't have access then why offer a car for test [last year] on this forum if 50 % of the membership wont get the chance to see the offer? Technology is on the move the more we get the club out there the more interest we generate. As a club member if I know where I can get the information then it's down to me if I choose not to.
 

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It would be interesting to see any members of the committee pass comment?

or perhaps they are the ones without internet access?

The Committee and more specifically the Secretary, clearly do not understand the legal status of the office they hold within this unincorporated association.

They are acting as our (the members) agents. Access to the minutes is a right of all members to assure that the elected committee members are running the club in accordance with the constitution and aims of the club. As well as a safeguard for members to ensure that the committee are not taking decisions which could expose the members to any liability or acting outside of their authority.

We need to see the constitution(rules) and the minutes.

the ultimate sanction is for the members (the number will be defined in the rules) to call an egm and call for a vote of no confidence in the committee.

Lets hope the committee are getting this message.

BSN
 

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This subject has provoked the most response I've seen in the NSCC area since I joined the forum

Old fashioned I know ......but I always thought the NSCC was a club run by the members for the members ?
I'd certainly like to see whatever action needs to be taken to make sure members are not personally liable for any debts that may be ran up

Political in-fighting is not going to make the club particularly attractive to anybody ! Maybe it's time to draw a line under any past problems and agree a way to move forward ?

Geoff
 

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QUOTE (j-c @ 19 Mar 2010, 12:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As for the figure of 99% of members not giving a toss - I am guessing that IS a guess... or I missed that poll!!
J-c
An educated guess Jamie and, possibly, a slight exaggeration but consider:
An AGM was held annually at the Loughborough swapmeet for about 20 years - record attendance 12 people! We even tried bribing people to attend with food and prizes - result - 8 members turned up!

Eventually the AGM was abandoned and we tried publishing an annual review with a request for members' responses by any method - result - 2 letters in 3 years!

In 9+ years as editor I could count the members who asked me about the actual running of the club on the fingers of one hand.

The total number of individual contributors to this thread is just 12 and I know for a fact that at least 2 of them are not even members of the NSCC.

As I said, so long as the Journal arrived on the mat, some prize cars were offered and an NSCC car was produced then the vast majority were happy. If anybody thinks there is some huge pent-up demand to see the workings of the committee then they are doomed to disappointment.

Incidentally, Jamie, why are you being so coy about the reason for your invalid nomination? It is hardly a state secret - are you just embarassed by the fact that someone standing for the secretary's job failed to even ensure that his main proposer was actually a paid up member of the club?


In any club/voluntary organisation there are "those who do" and "those who don't". It is a general principle that "those who don't" spend most of their time criticising "those who do."

Brit Slot Nut - I don't think I know you - perhaps you would care to enlighten me as to exactly what contribution you have ever made to the club?

As an ex-committee member I know better than most that the people who serve the club do so from a spirit of service with no thought of personal gain. There are no 'City Bonuses' available for helping the NSCC. If the barrack room lawyers currently contributing to this thread continue in the same vein then I suspect that the current committee members will treat you with the contempt you deserve.

I look forward to the absurd prospect of an EGM and a vote of no confidence - exactly how are you going to run the club once they have all resigned then? In the 30 year history of the club people prepared to donate large quantities of their spare time to help have been somewhat thin on the ground - I suspect that the current committee is possibly the last of the breed.
 
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