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Tony
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have always raced Bscra type metal chassis cars but after reading hear about modern plastic cars and how good they are I decided to give it a go. I read comments and reviews here about different manufacturers and models and decided to go for an NSR Corvette white kit. All arrived quickly and on opening up the box and checking out the contents the following came to light
The kit doesn't come with the additional suspension sets.
The front tyres aren't zero grip, in fact the opposite.
No instructions on body assembly, some small parts I had no idea where they went. Thankfully someone here did.
The body has several black smear stains in the plastic, which is a pain as I was going to use a livery which is mostly white and laquer it
No body mounting screws, thanks Pendle for the speedy delivery
Lots of flash plastic and bits of sprue left on the chassis, so much on the drop arm that it wouldn't drop.

I decided to test the car without painting it first, what a disappointment, the car hopped around corners then fell out and down the straight the speed is pathetic then one of the tyres came of the rim after 3 laps. Brought the car home and decided to make some changes, fitted a deep sloit guide and decent lead wire, changed the gear ratio and fitted a set of sponge rear wheels and tyres. Back to the track and the hopping had stopped but still don't like the handling and the speed well there isn't any. Tried various gear ratios and suspension settings but nothing made any difference what makes it worse that our production class production class cars were lapping me every 4 laps. I could have built a production class car with a JK pressed steel chassis and a Hawk motor for less money and had a much better handling and faster car. I can't see why anyone would want to race with plastic cars on a wood routed track when you can get a much better car for the less. I know a lot of people like their cars to be detailed and to scale but that seems to be more important than racing. I know that a lot of lexan bodies don't look much like real cars but neither do or did Group 5 cars or Group C rally cars or current LMP, DTM or WTCC cars., they are built for racing. The hobby is called Slot Car RACING so why wouldn't you want a car that is faster, handles better and will take more punishment.
I know I am going to be slated for voicing my opinion but if the NSR is the pinnacle of plastic car racing then I'm going to stay with my metal chassis's and the Vette is going to be consigned to fleabay.
One last final rant, why doesn't somebody invent a better way of holding in braids and the leadwire to the guide, metal chassis have been using a good system since the 60's. Having to take the body off to change the braids is daft.
Dons tin helmet and bulletproof vest and waits for incoming fire.
 

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Seriously though, there is a sliding scale of participation in the slotcar hobby. For some people it has to be about the models and for some people it's about the slotracing machinery which is why you have Ninco Classics on skinny tyres and wingcars along with every stage inbetween. If it has to resemble a real car to maintain someone's interest then the the wingcar will never produce any enthusiasm no matter how awesome a slotracing beast it is.

In defence of the NSR, plastic cars are every much about setup as BSCRA style cars. Those NSR tyres need to be glued and the plastic mouldings shaved to allow the car to be setup in exactly the same way as a production 1:32 won't go very well if the chassis is bent, the lead wires and hanging out of the bottom, the gear box hasn't been aligned to be square, the skids are dragging etc. etc. As you will know, you can't just get a stamped metal two-piece chassis out of the packet and expect it to be flat.

There's also the issue the Spanish and Italian plastic cars are really designed to run on plexitrack, often with voltage dialed down. It's us reprobates on Pirate Island that run them out of their intended operating envelope on fast, smooth wood tracks with loadsapower.

Coop - BSCRA, retro, vintage, Scalextric etc. if it has a slot and a motor and wheels I'll run it.
 

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I think if you had read all the reviews prior to purchasing you would not have picked the NSR Corvette as your first choice.

Allan
 

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Hi Tony,
I have to agree with your comments, unfortunately these problems seem to be with all plastic chassis cars. NSR are definitely one of the better manufacturers for these type of RACING cars compared with many others. I have done both sides of slot car racing, I currently race an NSR Mosler and Audi, as well as other plastic chassis cars, but performance can vary from one week to the next and half the time I don't know why. Very frustrating.

Our club races all sorts of different classes and we have just introduced an open sports class for BSCRA type cars, so hopefully other members will see the difference.
At our previous club we used to race pressed steel chassis 1:24th sports cars, week in week out, with very few repairs or adjustments needed. With the plastic cars you have to spend hours setting them up and maintaining them in a competitive state.

I dug out some 10 year old BSCRA cars for the open sports class, ran the foam tyres on a bit of sandpaper for 2 seconds, oiled bearings etc., put them on the track and they were great, no problems at all.
I understand that people want to race nice looking cars, but you can now buy nice, pre-painted, slightly thicker Lexan bodies which look nice enough to look good on the track.
I can see both sides of the argument to some extent, but as you say, for RACING it must surely be more important for the car to perform well.
There will always be people who will spend all their time sorting their cars, whatever type, but at least even a less competitive BSCRA type car runs smoothly and quickly on the track.

Now, where did I put that flack jacket and helmet.

Steve
 

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The guys who were raving about how good a well sorted NSR car was were probably comparing it with a home set cars - Scalex etc. Well sorted NSRs are way quicker than that, although getting them well sorted isn't that easy. Yes NSR's are among the best performing plastic chassis slot cars.

Some guys prefer the look of an injection molded body. Sure that means lower performance than soft bodied cars, but the guys who choose the injection molded body cars accept that, and why not? Nothing wrong in racing the sort of car you like best.

Nobody seems to be disputing the BSCRA style cars are way quicker than even the best NSRs on a wooden track. If that's the sort of performance you are seeking, there's no contest which sort of car to choose.
 

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gee, why not compare apples & eels?
I race plastic cars mostly on wood. Tuning is very important & I race w/ a very adept crew, if you do 1 little thing wrong you are hopeless & being lapped.
I too, had trouble w/ my 'vette, I couldn't keep the back end in. I now run her @ 13:31 w/ a blue hawk motor w/ 19x10's glued; suddenly she's a beauty. I'm not up to my Audi yet, but better than I was.
If you are unfamiliar w/ these cars it could take you hours because you are learning a whole new thing, give me one of your metal pan cars & I too would be lost. You need patience.
I have never seen an NSR car w/ such bad fit & finish as you claim; they are not the best, but not as bad as you describe. I have 11 NSR's & I race w/ a friend who has 27 Porsche's alone. If you want to kick butt & take names, I suggest you try the Mosler, I like my Porsche & Audi best, but I like 4 - 6hr races.
 

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fred
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I suppose we all make mistakes


So Bigtone, now you know how much better Bscra is I suspect you won't buy another plastic car again, lesson learned.
 

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This does sound exactly what one would expect from somebody with overly-high expectations, with a little what-we-do-is-better slid in for good measure.

We really are talking about very different things. BSCRA cars are all about performance, and the buzz of driving a good one is something else. They look nothing like a real car though. Plastic 'scalex' cars have to please more than one customer base, and price is a big consideration too.

I have seen really good NSR's being driven by the best, and they are amazing™. The OP needs to put away his BSCRA-esque preconceptions, stay open-minded and use their BSCRA skills to build a fast NSR.
 

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Gentlemen, Gentlemen play fair here you pay your money and make your choice as to what you do, i raced in the 60's up to 1972 and kept an interest up to 1980 i still have 12 of my cars from this period mostly brass or steel plate chassis a couple of Parma 32's all fitted with Super 16D's or Mura 12's & 15's and thanks to S.C.D just refurbished the lot of them and testing them on my home track was like history all over again they went like the clappers, but nowhere to race them, so i bought a couple of Slot It's a Pioneer Mustang and i already had a couple of Fly's in the display case the only problem now is the same as it was then you want to make them go faster but the plastic wheels and rubber tyres are shall we say dissapointing so looking at the old cars i thought here we go again so i started working on brass chassis for them i have a large box of motors from that era and plenty of good alloy wheels and sponge. Then i had another thought why the hell am i laying out the money on this when i have the faster cars already , and to be honest the only modern cars i like the look of are Racer but at that sort of money wheres my soldering iron Cheers Keith.
 

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Tony
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I do believe that plastic cars do have their place, probably best on a plastic track. In my defence I have never spent so many hours working on a car to try and make it work, I have tried everything I know and some tricks learned here, the worst for me was the woeful lack of straight line speed. I tried 5 different gear ratios and none made any serious improvement. I think that NSR should include some instructions regarding setting the car up for different types of tracks. For the prices charged they also ought to glue and true the rear tyres.
Martini, being devils advocate again you have had to spend more on top of the car price (not cheap to start with) to make it perform. A BSCRA production car is a standard pressed steel chassis and a standard Falcon motor standard tyres. The only changes allowed are gear ratios and adding weight, they ran rings round the NSR. I m also being truthful about the quality of the car I got, perhaps they don't qc their kit cars so well.
Honestjudge ---- you are correct
Montoya -- yes I had high expectations, with people saying how great NSR cars are and the Corvette being so good, I have learned a lesson. The particular car I got was not of a quality I would have expected for the price. I also was not keen on the production class at first but for close racing and perfomance for your pound moreless straight out of the box they are hard to beat.
 

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Lee Green
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I think you will probably find that it was only to particularly good was because you dont have a clue on how to set it up .. People who race nsr cars don't just take them out the box and put them on
 

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Nobby Berkshire
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The original post is fair comment.

NSR set themselves up as top quality racing cars so it's right that somebody is refreshingly honest that there is always room for improvement. The Corvette model needs improvement and it's sad that people are still not seeing a better car being made, and seriously sad that people are still saying you need to 'set the car up' before it runs well. Come on guys, read what NSR boast on their marketing blurb. these things are supposed to be ready to race straight from the box! It's not as if NSR charge small cash for thier models, so expect more from them and you will get more.
 

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To start off with: the quality problems that you experienced are inexcusable and unacceptable. Period. But it must be said that in my personal experience and also in following a lot of forums I believe your experience is the exception, not the rule. That doesn't give you a lot of comfort, I am sure. Even saying that complaints to the supplier/manufacturer typically gets very good results (replacing defective items without quibbling seems to be pretty normal for NSR and other good manufacturers) also is not very satisfactory: it should not be necessary in the first place.

QUOTE (Bigtone @ 3 Aug 2012, 11:32) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...the worst for me was the woeful lack of straight line speed....

....I tried 5 different gear ratios and none made any serious improvement. ...

....pressed steel chassis and a standard Falcon motor standard tyres.
The above indicates that perhaps did not do sufficient homework and ended up comparing significantly dissimilar products:

Metal chassis vs plastic: can be a killer.

Vac formed vs injection moulded bodies: BIG difference! A fair chunk of the cost of scale 1/32 cars go into the body. This means, compared to the class you race in, you would be buying a heavy, redundantly pretty car that cannot compare performance-wise. If scale appearance is not important to you then you totally wasted your money on the NSR.

Falcon motors: 45 - 50,000RPM, >250g.cm torque. NSR King motor in the Corvette: 21,400RPM, 320g.cm torque. This means that you are expecting a motor with approximately half the power to keep up with what you are used to. You can change the gears all you like: it still ain't gonna happen. And I am curious: how long is the track you race on and how long is the longest straight? On the type of tracks I race on (around 80' long, twisty/technical, no long straights) the Corvette is plenty powerful enough: too powerful actually.

In an analogy: it sounds to me like you bought a light 250hp car that beats the pants off most other light 250hp cars in the same class on smaller, twisty tracks and then took it up against 500hp cars at Le Mans and got upset that you could not keep up with them down Mulsanne straight.

QUOTE (Bigtone @ 3 Aug 2012, 11:32) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I do believe that plastic cars do have their place, probably best on a plastic track.
Well, in a word: no. A well set up NSR on a wood track is a joy and typically hard to beat using similar type cars.

I think the bottom line is that you are used to a certain type of racing with certain type of equipment. Using something that is not suited to that purpose is bound to be a frustrating experience.Classic case of taking a (fancy?) knife to a gun fight I think.
 

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I've only seen 3 posts like this ever and they are always white kits. Hmmmm.
Suggest the owner buys a factory assembled one to see the difference:
 

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Mark R-E
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QUOTE (Screwneck @ 3 Aug 2012, 20:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The original post is fair comment.

No it isn't.

You are not comparing like with like. Neither the cars nor the track. Exactly how well does a production car go on a Ninco track? About as far as the hairpin and after four laps the abrasive surface has destroyed the tyres and the chassis has shorted the track.

Any manufacturer can not know what track you are going to run on. All the goop that is sprayed all over the track does not sit well with soft rubber tyres and bogs the motor down. Mind you it begs the question why goop is needed if they handle so well...

Now Deane can summarise again.

QUOTE (montoya1 @ 3 Aug 2012, 17:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This does sound exactly what one would expect from somebody with overly-high expectations, with a lot what-we-do-is-better slid in for good measure.

We really are talking about very different things. BSCRA cars are all about performance, and the buzz of driving a good one is something else. They look nothing like a real car though. Plastic 'scalex' cars have to please more than one customer base, and price is a big consideration too.

I have seen really good NSR's being driven by the best, and they are amazing&#153;. The OP needs to put away his BSCRA-esque preconceptions, stay open-minded and use their BSCRA skills to build a fast NSR.
 
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Well said Montoya and Mr Croker. I, like many others, could wonder why anyone would get pleasure from racing a bright plastic blob that resembles nothing more than a bright plastic blob at totally unrealistic speeds through a pot of glue, but I won't.
 

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The ideal slot car class, for me, would have a metal chassis using reasonable motors (falcon for 1/32, group 12 for 1/24), limited wide rear tires (14 mm for 1/32, 18 for 1/24), real scale front tires (not those ridiculous bicycle rims) and, most important, real scale bodies representing cars correctly (I would prefer them made on lexan, minimum 0.015" thick).

The "plastic" cars are, in my opinion, expensive (the good ones, as NSR) and they do demand lots of work to run properly.

The Bscra cars, and I am sorry to say it, do not represent scale models of real cars.

You can have both things, fast cars and real scale cars, at the same time. Most probably they will not be as fast as the Bscra cars but it will be the same for everybody.

With the technology that is available nowadays, there are no excuses for those ugly lexan bodies they are racing. But I am not the owner of this world, so I invite everyone to follow racing whatever you want to ...

I did my own 1/32 CanAm class, with a laser cut chassis made to be used with CanAm bodies (those old Betta models and also True Scale models). The cars are fast, beautiful, very strong, parts are not expensive and they last long. The chassis is the Macker, motor falcon, rear tires JK.

By the way, there is a possibility to launch a new 1/32 f1 class, using a laser cut chassis and new bodies, made on lexan, real scale representations of f1 cars from 1971 to 1975.

Is anybody interested ?

André Acker.
 

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Um, I'm pretty sure I mentioned the fact that you are comparing a P51D to an F4B, both are great fighter planes @ the height of their technology, but they should not be compared to each other.
Plastic cars on plastic track? So, are your beloved BSwhatever cars made of wood for wood tracks? No. You may be the cat's ass in your backyard, but you've stepped away from it & have to learn about a different world w/ different rules. Quit carrying on about the differences between what you know & this new thing that you don't know because you obviously don't know much about this new thing. I wouldn't dare walk into the local track where my friend Dutch runs Wing cars & try to stomp on everyone my first day out; nor does he attempt that w/ RTR cars, we know we're not speaking the same language so why bother trying to make different words mean the same thing.
Here ya go, lad, set up your pathetic little 'vette to the best of your abilities & hop on over here for a race weekend; I'll make the ringers wear signs. Unless you built an exact copy of the track & practiced for months you'd be horribly outclassed & what fun would that be.
You're used to running 50k motors w/ foamies & glue & a lexan body & you can't understand why a car w/ a 21k motor can't light your fire? Did you glue & true your tires? I don't have time to get into all the tuning that we do on a regular basis & I'm sure it would take just as long to teach me your methods. We run our GT1 class w/ 18k motors @ 10v on wood tracks; racing is tight & fun, but it does require different set-ups for different tracks & conditions- just like the real world. You don't just ring up Ferrari & say "I'd like a race car, please", every track is different, even temperature changes what tires to use, one track might be good for my R8 w/ 20mm x 10mm SuperGrips w/ a 13:31 gearing, while another may be more suited to my 997 w/ 19x10 Slot.it P6's & 14:32 gears. Sounds like I'm spending money over & above my base price on the car; complain to Ferrari when your 599 doesn't do as well @ LeMans as it does @ Laguna Seca, I'm sure they'll rush right out & make all the changes for free.
 

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QUOTE (fw14b @ 3 Aug 2012, 22:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well said Montoya and Mr Croker. I, like many others, could wonder why anyone would get pleasure from racing a bright plastic blob that resembles nothing more than a bright plastic blob at totally unrealistic speeds through a pot of glue, but I won't.

To be fair GT, I have driven such cars and for buzz they are amazing when you get one hooked up. But they are what they are, and an NSR is a totally different beast.

I do think some of the hype and some of NSR's claims have led the OP down the garden path a bit too, but an NSR at full gallop is an impressive sight too.
 

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Tony
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
First of all I was trying to highlight a lack of quality in a product which is supposed to be the be all and end all of it's type. I was also trying to get a hard body class accepted by the club to make a change as I do like the look of them. Needless to say this hasn't worked. I never expected the car to be the equivalent of our metal chassis cars but I hadn't expected such a big difference. Our club does not use goop/glue as it isn't really necassary now with the sponge tyres that are available. The only class it is really used for is strap sports cars and we don't race them because of the goop and cost of the cars. And as for call modern lexan bodies plastic blobs, what do you think most modern full size race cars look like. Particularlr LMP, DTM and WTCC and a lot of rally cars too.
Martini my posting was meant to provoke a debate which it has done but you comments have become personal which I take exception to.
 
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