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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
QUOTE (Julian_Boolean @ 4 Aug 2011, 16:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Just to say that for the Pancake Cup I will be fairly relaxed about the rules, so long as your wheels don't stick out of the body, you use a body that was made by Aurora (or a replica of an Aurora one), a pancake motor and the only magnets in the car are the motor ones I'll be happy, the idea of the day is to have fun with old HO slot cars, not spend the day arguing about rules.

The reason for this is that I've had problems getting anything other than modern silicone tyres to work, and these won't fit on Magnatraction rims.

I feel I can comment on this old piece of news now the racing is done and the cup has found a happy home up north


The idea of the comment is so you now why my car was a bit quick, that way it will be fairer for everyone next time if they know a set up that works (that said, it may not work again


Once the rules were relaxed I was happy as I had two cars at home, one legal and one not, the quickest being the one that wasn't because they were the wrong magnets for the chassis

It all started when I was informed (not by anyone on this thread) that the components from an Aurora AFX would fit directly into a Magnatraction chassis, so I bought a brand new Magnatraction chassis off Barry and while I ws waiting for it to come I was then in formed that the magnets from the Aurora AFX wouldn't fit.
As luck would have it I'd also ordered an X Traction because I wanted to see what they were like, and those magnets did fit. I also found that Aurora AFX has different brushes/springs than the Magnatraction, but as luck would have it the X Tractions ones were the right size too.

So I built up a bit of a mismatch, into the brand new Magnatraction chassis I put nearly all the Aurora AFX running gear, with X Traction magnets and motor brushes/springs, so really it was a hybrid of all three


I don't think it mattered that it was mainly Aurora AFX running gear, if I had a magnatraction at the time of the build I would have used all that What I have found out is that the X Traction magnets do seem to be quite a bit stronger, and according to this article about Gauss Meter Readings the X Traction are almost twice as strong

Maybe that is why I could use such huge rear tyres (if anyone saw the size of my PVT Rears they were too big to fit in any hole on the tyre gauge)

Maybe taking into account of the difference in magnet strength, next time we should use "hand out" magnets? I've seen X traction magnets for sale in the states for $3 so it's not like it's going to break the bank

Paul
 

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There you go, if any one on Sunday wondered why their car wasn't quick or wouldn't stay in the slot, there's your answer.
 

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Hmmmm excuse my chassis ignorance but what magnets would my chassis have had in it then? It was a quite new auto world one I think.

Ah well at least we will all know for next time!

I thoroughly enjoyed the event despite neither of my cars (or indeed my driving) being remotely competitive all day. As I said at the time, at least they looked nice!
 

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Al, if your chassis was an Autoworld one then it would have had X-Traction magnets, and your cars looked superb.
Tony, you'll have to ask Roy what magnets where in your car, but it clocked up at least one 5.7 second lap that I saw, I think my fastest of the day was a 5.5ish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That makes me happier, knowing I won on merit and not just because my magnets were stronger


The more I look at it the more I can't believe it won, those tyres are way too tall, and the fronts really small, it's more like a wedge of cheese than a race car










 

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QUOTE (Julian_Boolean @ 15 Aug 2011, 13:39) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Tony, you'll have to ask Roy what magnets where in your car, but it clocked up at least one 5.7 second lap that I saw, I think my fastest of the day was a 5.5ish.

I used one of Roys chassis and one of mine could have been either, sure that time wasn't in the G+ event?

It's a pity some didn't let on to the others about actually using AW or JL magnets!


Sort of takes the edge off it for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
QUOTE (slowracer @ 15 Aug 2011, 13:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It's a pity some didn't let on to the others about actually using AW or JL magnets!


Sort of takes the edge off it for me.

Is it any different to the SG's when you found out at the end of the day that some chassis had more grip than others?
I don't know about the rest but I used what felt good, I didn't know that the magnets were all that different at the time, the penny didn't drop until the end when I actually tried measuring my tyres and the gauge wasn't big enough, it wasn't until I actually realised the size of the tyres that I knew the magnets must have a lot more to do with it


At the time I expected the AW's to be stronger, just because they were newer, but didn't know for certain...
 

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Tony - did the rules specify what magnets could not be used? If the JL/AW mags were not excluded then the lost edge is all in your head. Assume somebody will build a good car, somebody a better one, etc, rather than everyone merely dusting off and oiling an existing macine.

For what it is worth it is very common in pancake racing to allow JL and Autoworld parts to be used, and for that matter those from Dash, who make the strongest magnets of all. Such things are good enough for all the top pancake races and I think the nascent UK event should follow that trend.

It is rumoured that Dash will in time do a whole chassis, which is just what pancake racing needs. Why use an old clunker when for not a lot one can buy a totally new chassis....
 

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QUOTE (pasiro @ 15 Aug 2011, 14:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Is it any different to the SG's when you found out at the end of the day that some chassis had more grip than others?

Yes it is different, all the SG chassis I used were 100% 1970's originals except tyres, some coasted on some had more breaking, It could well be like the difference between No 2 Turbo chassis as against No 8 Turbo chassis, I havn't got to the bottom of it yet!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
QUOTE (slowracer @ 15 Aug 2011, 15:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yes it is different, all the SG chassis I used were 100% 1970's originals except tyres, some coasted on some had more breaking,

Some coasted on and some had more breaking...to me that sounds a lot like the difference in the magnatraction

You tend to get more braking with stronger magnets, which is the issue between using original Magnatraction magnets and the X traction


QUOTE (slowracer @ 15 Aug 2011, 15:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It could well be like the difference between No 2 Turbo chassis as against No 8 Turbo chassis, I havn't got to the bottom of it yet!

I suppose you're going to tell me that Turbo chassis' are numbered?
And that some are better than others
You live and learn
 

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QUOTE (montoya1 @ 15 Aug 2011, 15:57) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Tony - did the rules specify what magnets could not be used? If the JL/AW mags were not excluded then the lost edge is all in your head. Assume somebody will build a good car, somebody a better one, etc, rather than everyone merely dusting off and oiling an existing machine.

The rules were Julians, not mine, they got changed half way through, probably because there were handling dificulties with the running the old motor mags.

I am just disapointed that those that changed the mags wern't up front with it before the event, so we all could benefit!

Thats what took the edge off the event for me!
 

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Tony - you have a very different view of how it works than me then, or most people. The trick is to read the rules and build the best car allowed under said rules. It is not the job of racers to then share what they did with others, and it is not fair to accuse anyone who does not share of not being 'up front'.

It is doubly unfair to say that people building a better car than you has taken the edge off it the event. Get some Dash magnets and come back and try again next August, but in the meantime it sounds as if the first P Cup was a success, right?
 

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Surely the most important thing is that you had a brilliant event which saw pancake cars running in anger in the UK for the first time ever/for a very long time


Julian set the rules for making sure that as many people could come along - which I think was completely the right call.

For next year you can always look at beefing up the rules from what you learned this year. And I do hope there is a 'next year'.

Let me know if you want to have a look at the T-jet and X-traction rules we're looking at on the south coast (as mentioned in the Jet cars thread).
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
QUOTE (slowracer @ 15 Aug 2011, 16:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I am just disapointed that those that changed the mags wern't up front with it before the event, so we all could benefit!

You make it sound like we should have disclosed what mags we were running? All those that did run the X Traction magnets didn't talk to each other about it, yet most of us looked at the rules and tried to put together something that worked, and several of us managed to come up with that conclusion without consulting with anyone. In my opinion we all had the same oppotunity to find something that worked.
That said I have to agree the rule change on the 4th, just 10 days before the event didn't help. If you hadn't got any AW magnets by then, where would you get them from (I've not seen anyone in the UK)

Don't get me wrong Tony, I can see where you are coming from in some respects, and if everyone knew it would have been a more level playing field. Personally, I'd not made my mind up until Testing on Thursday at CHORC, are you saying I should have disclosed the fact then? I wasn't even convinced at that stage whether I just had a good car or if it was the magnets
 

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QUOTE (pasiro @ 15 Aug 2011, 16:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Some coasted on and some had more breaking...to me that sounds a lot like the difference in the magnatraction

You tend to get more braking with stronger magnets, which is the issue between using original Magnatraction magnets and the X traction


Yes, but im looking into the chassis on the G+ to see if there is something there, lower magnets in the chassis, on the grippers, higher on the coasters.

QUOTE I suppose you're going to tell me that Turbo chassis' are numbered?
And that some are better than others
You live and learn


Funnily, yes they are.
 
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