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is a printed chassis scratchbuilt?
it´s unique in the first print. It started from nothing and ended up a working chassis. The printed chassis is not ready to run, you have to drill holes to correct diameter, mount everything and set it up.

In the start you got nothing and end up with a working chassis, but would you consider it to be scratchbuilt?
I tend to yes, as the chassis is totally based only on my imagination, ideas and ability to design it. Plus to make it work, again, i have to use my abilties with tools. Only the middle part is not done by me, but you are not making your own wires, drill bits or solder, right?

let me know what you´re thinking, please!

cheers,
Peter
 

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Hi Peter,
I would suggest that anything that is made by you and not directly bought from a "shop" is scratch built. The fact that you used a modern tool to produce your chassis is no different to a chap who builds his from brass tubes; I bet neither of you could make each others' chassis user the other's methods.

Regards - Greg
 

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QUOTE (GregK @ 4 Apr 2012, 22:52) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Peter,
I would suggest that anything that is made by you and not directly bought from a "shop" is scratch built. The fact that you used a modern tool to produce your chassis is no different to a chap who builds his from brass tubes; I bet neither of you could make each others' chassis user the other's methods.

Regards - Greg

So if I use my CNC equipment to make as much parts of my model as possible it is scratchbuilt, isn´t it ? Do I have to prove that I did it myself ?

If I make the drawings with my PC and let the chassis EDM cut, assemble it myself then by soldering, screw the wheels on the axles, put the motor in, connect the motor wires etc, it is scratchbuilt, isn´t it ?

Wouldn´t it be better to think about "scratchbuilt" or " hand made" ? And if : What about CAD chassis drawings ? Are they hand made ?

It seems a way of thinking and interpretation starts just as I mentionend above - nitpicking.

I think the best way will be to say - bring what you have, the best wins.



Roland

I forgot : @ Peter, the chassis has turned out really well !
 

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At first sight it doesn't matter that much if you call it scratch built or not..........Hang on though, why do you ask the question? Could there be some reason why it does matter?

I'd say yes that chassis is scratch built, but I'm not sure printed chassis are necessarily scratch built

Suppose you make another one for a friend
Suppose you produce a few for sale to people you know
Suppose you set up in production and start supplying quantities to retailers.
I suppose there must be a point where it ceases to be a scratch-build.
 

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Why are you asking this question Peter? Surely all prototypes are scratchbuilt. If it goes into production it may then be in the development of 1/43 racing we must surely encourage called a kit. But many cars entered in scratchbuilt races use chassis kits and are still eligible.

At this stage we must surely encourage any and all new developments that push the scale forwards.

You have done a good job there, I look forward to seeing how well it works.

Regards, Lloyd
 

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QUOTE (stoner @ 5 Apr 2012, 09:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>yes its scratchbuilt and you dont have to prove it to any one.
Agreed, with the possible exception of rules that require scratch-builds

It's quite unusual for rules to require scratch-build chassis, classes where scratch-builts are raced are more commonly open to any chassis.
If the rules do require scratch-build chassis, its reasonable to ask the organisers exactly what THEY mean by scratch-build. Quite likely you will need to satisfy the scrutineer that your car complies with the rules.
 

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Peter, I think technically it is eligible, but I am thinking it's not in the spirit of what the organizers had in mind. I would say it's up to you if you want to run it, BUT I would be interested in seeing how it stacks up to the other entries reguardless; even if it's not an "official" entry!
 

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So - what IS scratchbuilding ? When is a chassis scratchbuilt ?

Drilling some holes and filing away some sharp edges doesn´t make a scratchbuilt chassis of an industrial one.

Designing / drawing a chassis is not scratchbuilding. Assembling mass produced parts to a chassis ( such as 24th scale PLAFIT or so ) isn´t scratchbuilding. And so on... Where is the limit ?

We want to develop 43rd scale slotracing. So let´s define the term "scratchbuilding" as wide as possible.

Wouldn´t it be enough to say " not commercially made " ?

Roland
 

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QUOTE (pfuetze @ 5 Apr 2012, 23:39) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Roland, point taken, that´s why i wanted to hear some philosophic opions - thanks!

Thanks to all of you!

cheers,
Peter

Well there´s one thing left: I´m sure AFTER the race there will be more than one who wouldn´t mind your chassis being produced commercially....
It would by all means be a really good basis for a lot of scratchbuilding...


Roland
 

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Of you're soldering up a brass jail-door chassis you're using commercially sourced materials to achieve your design. Same with 3D printing, using commercially sourced materials to achieve your design. It would be a shame to be held in the mid-1970s out of some misguided sense of tradition.

If the chassis must be wrought exclusively with your own two hands to be considered scratch-built, then it stands to reason that the body should be as well.
 

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So, if the latest technology available to you was brass tubing, would you still beat yourself up if the earlier cars were made from stone hewn from the ground using deer antlers? - I think not.

You designed the chassis, you produced the chassis ..... ergo, it must be scratchbuilt ..... QED.
 

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There are several high tech machines that could be used for making slot car chassis. For example EDM and laser cut chassis are quite widely used in the larger scales. Like 3D printing, all these require specific computer skills rather than skill with hand tools to scratch build a chassis.

These high tech machines are a lot of money compared with stuff like a bench vice, hacksaw, some files, a soldering iron and perhaps a Dremel. Hand tools are within the price range a lot of scratch builder are willing to pay.
If you are lucky enough to have access to one of these high tech machines at work, then that won't be a problem to you.
The rest of us have to pay for our chassis to be made by the business (or perhaps individual) that has invested in the high tech / high cost machine.

Surely we want to read about all sorts of slot cars on the SlotForum. So from that point of view it's not important what's scratch built and what's not.

When it comes to competition, what is allowed is up to the organisers. The competitors will decide to enter or not. There's a balance between discouraging those who want to use the high tech methods. and discouraging those who's only access to the high tech methods is buying the parts made that way
 

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QUOTE The rest of us have to pay for our chassis to be made by the business (or perhaps individual) that has invested in the high tech / high cost machine.

Very true, just as many of us buy decals from Pattos, for instance.

If you visit this board, you likely have access to a computer. This means you have access to inexpensive and free programs for producing 3D files, and access to services like Shapeways where a printed chassis at 1/43 scale could be printed for $10 or less, depending on how much material is used. It isn't a matter of rarified tools , many more of us have computers than have a lathe, for instance, or even a Dremel.
 

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The prices I've been quoted by businesses with the high tech / high cost machines needed to EDM and laser cut chassis means its uneconomic unless you are going to sell a batch of copies. No doubt that's a non problem to those who are lucky enough to have access to one of these high tech machines at work, or are owed a favour or two by the owners.

In some classes in the larger scales, EDM or laser cut chassis prove far superior to plastic chassis, but of course that is not the case in all classes.
 

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Hi,

ZITAT(Schackel @ 5 Apr 2012, 23:28) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>So - what IS scratchbuilding ? When is a chassis scratchbuilt ?

Drilling some holes and filing away some sharp edges doesn´t make a scratchbuilt chassis of an industrial one.

Designing / drawing a chassis is not scratchbuilding. Assembling mass produced parts to a chassis ( such as 24th scale PLAFIT or so ) isn´t scratchbuilding. And so on... Where is the limit ?

We want to develop 43rd scale slotracing. So let´s define the term "scratchbuilding" as wide as possible.

Wouldn´t it be enough to say " not commercially made " ?

Roland

I think, the following is scratchbuilding. The photos are showing the first step starting to build up my first Chassis for a '76 BMW 3.5 CSL.
The rear side will be modified yet.



 
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