SlotForum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I hope some of you can point me in the right direction here, just buying and testing seems me getting nowhere.

I am looking for some cars that will run even, on a digital, wooden track, many demanding corners, no long
straights, no magnets. I want cars that can be used by different drivers, without drivers thinking "the red
car is better than the blue car". Even. Only casual drivers, exposed to racing a few times a year. Need
cars that are, in golf club terms, "forgiving". Need cars where motors react reasonably alike on the
throttle. No need for top speed.

So far I have tried a lot of SCX cars, some Revell, Carrera, but they perform very differently. Different
response on the motors, tire differences, fabrication issues (slight differences in tolerances, elevation,
play in bearings etc) and so on. Tried some Nincos, but way to powerful for my track. Closest I have been is 8 Fly Panoz LMPs I bought a few years ago, they were reasonably equal after tuning, but not great without magnet.

So, as you now understand, I am not looking for a car that runs fast, but a series of 4 cars that run
equal. Where should I look? Scalex? Fly? WTCC? WRC? Fit my current cars with Rothmans and ScaleAuto low RPM motors?

You get the picture, I need some cars that a few guys can share and race, and all cars shall be considered equal in terms of speed, deslotting etc.

By the way, F1 and Nascar is sooo out of question;-)

Appreciate your advice:)

B
 

·
David H
Joined
·
3,724 Posts
I can think of barely any current or year old cars that fit the bill. There's been an arms race between manufacturers and everything has become over-powered, held in place for novices by magnets. Even Slot.it, which is hands-down winner of SlotForum's "Best RTR Car 2011", is producing cars that need different tyres if you want them to be forgiving enough for novices running without magnets.

Every now and then, most recently this Christmas, I run a race meeting for 25-30 people of mixed ability, but mostly novices, on Scalextric Classic track without magnets. The circuit has longish straights and some twisty bits. I always have the same problem as you; what cars to field that are equal, suitable for novices and experienced alike and, most importantly, fun to drive and reliable. Almost always I fall back on Scalextric BTCC Saloons from the mid to late 1990s. (Vauxhall Vectras, Renault Lagunas, Audi A4s, BMW 318s, Ford Mondeos)

This year I tried SCX four wheel drive rally cars with some success, but finding a matched foursome was time consuming as there are significant differences in drive-train friction and the power of supposedly identical motors. Undoubtedly the biggest surprise to me was the success I had running Ninco Raid cars. They're pretty fast, tend to roll rather than slide so I'd assumed would be unforgiving for novices, yet they worked brilliantly and were very durable.

I also like Carrera's products from several years ago, which were habitually criticised here by the Carrera bashers who droned on and on about them being "slow and heavy", which is exactly what I needed. The speed was just right, the weight smoothed out braking, they looked good and didn't fall to bits. Carrera's Ferrari 512BBLM and Porsche 935/78 made an attractive grid that performed equally.

If you want something a bit faster, you can't go wrong with a mixed grid of Fly Chevron B19s, B21s and Porsche 917 Spyders, although their mirrors and roll hoops are delicate and all require a small amount of work to fix rear axle slop that results in the wheels fouling the body and/or chassis and causing friction through corners.

The best suggestion I can come up with for almost up-to-date machinery is SCX's Seat 850 and Fiat Abarth 1000. Small, nimble, adults and children alike love the bright LED lights, but the body details are a bit fragile. Ninco Proshock Porsche 911s work very well too, but are expensive.

Scalextric "brown magnet" (with it removed) Nascars and Ninco F1s are also excellent, but you've ruled those out.

If you come up with a successful grid that I've not tried, I'd love to know what it is. Scalextric BTCC cars are great - and after many years of being abused by novices have proved supremely tough and competent - but I could do with a change. They are, though, easy and cheap to get hold of on eBay.

Hope this helps a little.
 

·
Johnny Fuglestad
Joined
·
417 Posts
Hi the NSR classic`s er very equal but fast, if you get an adjustable powersuply just turn down the power to 9 volt.
stømforsyning er billig på clahs ohlson feks, trenger du hjelp så pm meg. har drevet med dette siden jeg var guttunge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
984 Posts
My solution but not cheap. Slot.it Porsche P962's fitted with scaley motors, P6 tyres and magnetic suspension. We are running them to within a few thousants of a second on best lap and the fastest guy is the better driver. However this is on scaley digital. The suspension would probably not be required on a "flat" track. Rug raceing sport track is very bumpy. You could take the power down to help beginners. We found that one of our regulars was always about 1 to 1/1/2 seconds a lap slower. Following other experiments we dropped his power to 80% max. His times are now within about 0.3 sec of us and he is still not a great driver. The other two regulars suffer minimal reductions in lap times down to 70% power. This indicates on tight tracks total output power is not a major lap time driver. Too much power results in wheel spin and with no big straits the extra power has little impact on top speed. No mags of course as withou mags the car telegraphs that it is being overdriven so warns the driver to slow down, The very wide angle that the car can go to on the guide means that sometimes the car stops at near 90 degrees to the track but can get back on the track without de-slotting, good confidence builder for novices.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,646 Posts
its not so cheap but fairly practical. on ebay in the slot car tuning section the,ve got motors that run at 12000rpm there advertised as an UPGRADE? for xlot, find the cars you like with the correct drive end for the motor and just pop them in. i dont think that even rugrats could get into to much trouble with that low an rpm. if i remember rightly proffessor motor has a 10000rpm motor thats a lot cheaper. john.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
For what it's worth...

I run a bit of a club at work (where we can have large, variable layout, tracks) once every month, plus I did a school fete this summer to raise money for the school. I had 2 Scaley Super resistant Lambos - C2810.

I took the magnets out and put quite a lot of lead in the back sides in front of the rear wheels. Plus some more ballast by the guide at the front.

Trued the tyres. oiled the axles and lubricated the gears and with a small bit of tweaking of each cars ballast I get them to within 0.1 secs over a 5 sec test track lap. They can be a bit of a handfull if raced ''cold'' but if I oil the tyres they are quite grippy enough. Although obviously they both have to be oiled the same amount and at the same time.

For the school fete I actually put the magnet back in (in the front position) to be more forgiving for throttle happy youngsters(!).

I also have a stock of 8mm diam x 1mm deep button magnets which I (sorry) do put up front in 1or 2 of my cars. I shim them further with various thicknesses of plasticard to get the desired (very light) effect.

The above ''works for me''

Phil.
 

·
Circuit Owner
Joined
·
5,891 Posts
Older cars from the non-magnet era were designed to run without magnets and can be made to run so much better than modern mass market cars with the magnets taken out. True - the old Scalextric Classic track was grippier - but this can be compensated for by using new urethane tyres.

You could do worse than shop around for the Scalextric C125 Porsche 935 (the early unlit version) or C128 BMW 3.0 CSL - these use the same tyres and motors. Or the C052 Escort RS1600 and C053 Datsun 260z as these use the same tyres and motors. Some of these were made for a few years so can have a mix of RX and the modern Mabuchi - obviously you would need to find versions with the same motor. Either motor type can be replaced with brand new stock if you want. Sets of 5 new Mabuchis on Ebay go for around £15 at the moment. RX's are a little harder to buy that cheap but they are around and still used in SCX cars (albeit in a more powerful form).

None of these classics have high top speeds. My favourites are the RX motored cars as these seem to be more driveable around the twisty bits with lots of tail slide control even with standard Scalextric throttles.

I picked up most of my cars from this era for about £5-£8 each. They have probably cost me another £3-£5 each to replace bits and spray them. The tyres will cost another £4 a set unless you make your own (it's not that difficult).

Chipping them is easy as there's enough space. The only thing you need to watch is the distance of the LED/sensor from the track and you may have to improvise a housing to bring the LED closer to the track surface.

If you want to go modern then stick with what you have already - you could turn down the voltage to your track (if you can't then get a 12 way rotary switch and some 3A 100V Silicon Rectifier Diodes to populate it with and you can dial-down your power by 0.7 volts per click. You may have to go for higher current diodes if you have a monster power supply.

If you have cars that are externally the same but run differently then make sure they are on identical tyres and get a few replacement motors and swap them about until you get an even match - remember most slot cars are made as toys and modern manufacturing tolerances on these will be +- 5% meaning you could have a slow one that is 10% slower than a fast one even though on paper they are identical.

Finally - rather than let a driver stick to a car - if you have 5 drivers then run 5 races with each driver driving each car once. Make sure each car starts in the same grid position each time. How could they argue with that?
 

·
Jim Moyes
Joined
·
5,002 Posts
I think you are getting your motors mixed up, Mr Modifier.


The cars you mention never had the RX fitted - this is the old open frame Triang train motor of the much earlier Scalextric cars. The Johnson 111 and Mabuchi can motors are the two fitted to the 70's/80's Scalextric saloons/GTs. The Johnson looks quite similar to (and may be the inspiration for) the SCX RX can, but it is not the same and cannot be fitted without chassis modification.

The confusion is compounded by the fact that when there were links between the English and Spanish factories, they both used the RX open frame motor. The Spanish carried on using this motor, labelled the RX1, for much longer than the English and when they went over to can motors the first one was nominated the RX2, then the RX4, etc., etc. and that is how it stayed until the recent introduction of the RK series.

It's easy to look at a SCX can and think it is the same as a Johnson 111(you're not the first to make that mistake on here), but they will not interchange without chassis surgery. However, I have been told that some internals (armature/magnets?) can be used from one to the other.
 

·
Circuit Owner
Joined
·
5,891 Posts
Thanks for the lesson Mr M - duly noted - and appreciated in the spirit it was intended. And yes I was getting mixed up! They say the brain starts to deteriorate from 45 onwards so I am well down that slippery slope!!!

Yes the Johnson motor and RX are very similar - I have enough spare Johnson motors lying around not to have found out the RX doesn't fit!!! I guess I assumed (wrongly) that the RX was a straight evolution of the Johnson with SCX carrying on down that road while Scalextric defected to Mabuchi.

I haven't seen any of the cars I mentioned with an earlier motor than the Johnson. If the Triang train motor is an open can painted blue with a cast metal bracket bolted on the end with the rear axle running through it then I have one of those on an old C21 Cougar that a friend of mine gave me to try to get going. The C7's I have are fitted with the Johnson.

I just took an RX42 out of an SCX NASCAR and tried to fit the Johnson. The drive shaft was out of the wrong end but amazingly the Johnson fits in the wrong way round and very snugly into the floating motor mount but is 1.5mm shorter so would need a shim. Sadly this means major surgery to a Johnson mount to accommodate an RX.

So my advice to TheBruce needs to be to go for the later Mabuchi engined cars OR use the neat little Mabuchi mounting collars (about £5 for 5 sets on the bay) that allow you to put a short can Mabuchi into a Johnson motor mount - the cars I suggested are still relevant but the relative scarcity of the Johnson motor means the prolific and cheap Mabuchi is the more sensible option.

Interestingly the seller listing the mounting collars (which come in two parts) lists them as being for Johnson mounts but notes that some mounts need one collar part and others need both collar parts - it seems to me that his collars probably allow a Mabuchi to be mounted in either a Johnson or an RX mount but he has made the same mistake as me and others. I think I will buy a set as I have a few classic cars I want to digitise and it would be better if they all ran the same motor, but I will keep a couple with the Johnson motor because I like the controllability when I am mucking about tail sliding.

It's a good day - I have learned something!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,748 Posts
I suggest the Ninco NC1 cars, though they're a bit pricey for what they are.
Scalextric or SCX NASCARs could be good as well, depends on what you mean by slow.
 

·
Tom Brown (Scorpus Flex)
Joined
·
1,214 Posts
I have 2 scalextric start cars that I keep for novices to play with, both completely unmodified they are quite easy to drive and not massively fast. This is the LMP version. I also found that my scalextric audi r10 was very popular with begginers. A set of scalextric LMP cars with urathene tyres and possibly scaleauto 10k motors will all be easy to drive non mag and very very similar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
I run a small digital club that runs on a 70" wood track (& no magnets). I provide the cars.
The best car solution I have come up with is Proslot Ferraris and Porsche GT2s, they are cheap on fleabay and VERY robust. I fit slot.it crown and pinion glue on the standard rear tyres to the standard rear wheels and replace the front axle stubs with a solid axle. The Ferraris are fitted with Scaleauto Yellow Can (25k) motors and compete with the Porsches.
If your track is smaller then fitting cheap Scaly Motors to everything may be the way to go but in my experience it just adds further inconsistencies.
Speaking generally my two penneth would be that the more quality parts you use building the cars the more consistently they will perform.

Finally any minor differences in the cars we use are eleviated because everyone gets to race each car.
brembo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
911 Posts
The NINCO 1 slot cars come with a mild motor that are a lot of fun to drive with or without the traction magnet.

Best regards,
Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Wow, excellent feedback! Thanks a lot for your advice, gents:)

The solution is probably a combination of some of the cars/practices you advice. Rotating cars is definitely a way to go, especially now when digital is just round the corner. I have also usually been running many, short heats in a round robin format, which will necessitate extremely aggressive driving if a driver deslots, as he will have very few rounds to make up (it usually ends in more deslots and grief;-) Your input made me think that in a digital 3 or 4 car race, it might not be a bad idea to have 4 cars with different properties, and rather than running first arrived heats, a total number of laps for all 4 cars combined could determine the results. Hmmm.... to be further refined...

Regarding inconsistent performance, assuming the +-5% tolerance Mr modifier suggests, could tighter tolerances be expected if buying "upgrade" motors, be it Scaleauto low rpm motors or others?

I have also tried a variation of Dopamines advice of running the "small" SCX cars, although I tried the JWRC models (I have two Suzuki Swifts, and one Citroen C2). These are promising, but again serious issues with tolerances. The Citroen makes a lot of noice/vibration in the rear axle, and they have very uneven play in the front axels (simple type without bushings), and very uneven tire grip (although tires seem to be similar between all 3 cars. It is rubber issue, switching tires between cars definitely cahnges performance). Anyway, probably the best I have had so far in terms of cars running similar, or potential thereof. Ran them one race with Scorpius controllers, learning mode (limited to 70% speed), and with the sensitivity settings on the controller it worked reasonably well for all drivers.

Some time ago I kind of decided to go with a series of SCX 4x4 WRC cars for digital, as the first couple of cars I bought were reasonably similar in performance, and sat well on the track even without additional weighting. Overlooked on important issue, where to place the chip. Might be possible if part of interior is removed. Any of you guys tried to chip a 4x4?

Well, a few new motors, some classics off Ebay, some fiddling, the struggle continues...;-)
 

·
WRP World Champ 2015/2016
Joined
·
4,279 Posts
We had a very good scratch race at Wye Valley last week - one of the members turned up with four NSR Fiat 500s. He'd lubed, tyre trued and generally tuned them to be pretty evenly balanced.

We had a great set of round robin races using them, all very close finishes. they were a bit quicker than your needs, but reducing voltage/dropping power via controller would sort that for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,688 Posts
What i have done the past years on analogue, and will continue on Scorpius, proved to be simple and affordable.
I arranged 4 standard scalextric cars - of the same era and type, like 4 minis, or 4 '90s cars (jaguar xj220, lambo diablo, ferrari F40) or 4 crash resistant cars (say porsche 997, lambo gallardo, ferrari 430).
What also works great is the classic Fleischmann Ford Lotus, a fine yet indestructable car :)

These cars are sort of comparable amongst themselves and to even out the last differences like tyres / road handling / motors, i let every driver change car. So at the end of the race, everyone has had all 4 cars in 4 or 8 heats. Of course, they all need a little TLC like well trued tyres, a drop of lube on the appropriate places, good braids and so.
If there was a total loss incident or otherwise serious car damage, i simply grabbed another car of the same class.

When standard 18K mabuchi cars go too fast on your track, you have two options:
- if you own an adjustable psu set it to lower voltage, say 10 volts;
- otherwise in Scorpius, you can select kiddie mode ehh learner curve on the controller, which delivers ehm.... 70? % of max power to the car.

you can think of fitting slower motors, but what comes cheaper than the standard 18K mabuchi? hardly anything.

Merc
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,227 Posts
Mr Modifier,
Just for your reference the Triang RX & the Johnson motors are a totally different beast.
The short lived Cougar you own had a Johnson motor fitted.



The RX motor was designed in the late 1950s for use in Triang trains & in 1960 was transferred over for slot car use.
The Triang trains RX-04 motor had a large brass worm gear instead of the cars much smaller pinion.



Cheers,
Kev
 

·
Circuit Owner
Joined
·
5,891 Posts
QUOTE (loosesalute @ 11 Jan 2012, 16:28) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Mr Modifier,
Just for your reference the Triang RX & the Johnson motors are a totally different beast.
The short lived Cougar you own had a Johnson motor fitted.



Cheers,
Kev

Thanks Kev.

Not disagreeing with you BUT my cougar has this...



and as the guy who gave it to me had it from a kid and never replaced the motor - it would appear the short lived cougar had more than one motor type!

Mind you looking at the innards his dad may have upgraded the beast without telling him (look at the bodge job on the front axle)!

This is obviously not a Triang RX but is not a Johnson either (at least not the one in your photo which is the only type of Johnson I am familiar with).

I have seen this motor and transmission combo in photos of vintage Scalextric cars on SlotForum before but don't know what it is.

Richard
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,227 Posts
Quite possible Mr Modifier, but all the reference I have states that the Cougar was only available with the Johnson Type111 small can.
Your car has the Johnson Type 222 large can motor fitted. These came in several colours.
My Cougar is in totally unused/original condition.
Your car has had a very good play life & has also been repaired/modified.
Front axle/wheels are not original.Wiring doesn`t look original. Rear wheels are not original. Heavy repair behind guide. Also note your white rear axle bushels. They are modern, so the motor has been popped out sometime in it`s life.
I would say that a lot of the running gear in your Cougar is out of a Javelin or Electra.
Cheers,
Kev
 

·
Circuit Owner
Joined
·
5,891 Posts
Fair enough - I wondered as much.

Knowing nothing about the Johnson 222 - I notice that my car has the contrate gear facing the other way meaning the motor is spinning in the opposite direction to yours. Is this normal?

I am wondering if the motor is wired in reverse because my friend's dad didn't know any better. Will this make a difference? I said to my friend that I would attempt to get it going again for nostalgia's sake. It looks in poor shape - perhaps I should make it into the ultimate Q car and drop in some slot.it running gear and a sprung guide! Come to think of it I have a Ninco NC6 crusher in my parts bin......
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top