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Power issue on large track

1445 Views 17 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  MrFlippant
Hello

I'm building a new track with layout "Central Circuit" . I made a it a bit longer then the original. So I have 3 tables 11' x 4'. Two tables side by side for a total of 22' and the third one on the width for total of 8' large total . Total length is around 80' for each lane. I also add some height difference in the upper part.

I'm using C7042 with stock power supply. My problem is that the track seem to lack power and car is not running smoothly and stop at many place.

Do I need to modify C7042 to add a bigger power supply? Do I need to add some tap to tracks to send current from the power track to distant section ?


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Welcome to Slot Forum. Great first post. :)

It's not the power supply or power base, it's the loss of power through the joins of the track.
There are ways to make it better, but the larger a track is, the more you will need what are called "power taps" or power jumpers, which are wires that bring power directly from the source (the APB track, or the one adjacent to it) to the distant sections of the layout (by number of joins, not as the crow flies).
There are many ways to do this, but it will need to be done, even if your joins all have nice snug connections.
On another note, your lanes are not both the same. You've created an inside loop, aka paperclip, as opposed to a figure 8. Your lanes are more different than if it were just an oval. Whether you believe equal lane lengths is important or not, I wanted to make sure you were aware of that.

IMHO, equal lanes are important, not even for digital, but especially for digital.
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Are you using new track pieces or used one? You might need to crimp the rail connectors on each track piece.
Adding power booster will help for sure.
I like the track: it seems a version of Tsukuba folded in a paper clip configuration.

Usually (99.9%) of times I agree with MrFlippant but not on the equal lane lengths: in my personal experience, the length of each lane does not matter.
What matters is that you have stretches of track where moving (for a time) from the "fastest" lane gives a temporary advantage.
Crucially important is the positions of the lane changers to move from the fastest lane and to return back into to (once the overtake has been completed).
yes i see your point grunz ,but if the lanes ARE equal then you dont have to worry so much about getting back into the FAST lane and there wont be a procession of every one following each other in one ( the fast ) lane
having both lanes in use adds to a better racing experience and also better to look at
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Most likely will need power taps due to the size
yes i see your point grunz ,but if the lanes ARE equal then you dont have to worry so much about getting back into the FAST lane and there wont be a procession of every one following each other in one ( the fast ) lane
having both lanes in use adds to a better racing experience and also better to look at
That is what I believed as well. As I said this is basically based on my personal experience.
See the layout below (this was mine layout before I moved to the current one):
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In this layout, the outer lane was the quickest. The main reason was that use R4 "hairpin" before the bridge.
One would think that given same lane length, two equally capable cars in the hands of two equally capable drivers would be head to head on both lanes: WRONG!
Basically that R4 mega curve if taken from the outside would be way too slow.
In this track, there was a very limited space where to over take, mainly leaving the outside lane after the corner coming down from the bridge.
Then you would stay on the inner lane until you are ahead of the car that you want to pass. This would usually happens in the middle or end of the main straight (again I am talking about equally capable cars and drivers here). However there is only one ideal point to come back in the faster lane: that is the lane changer before the huge R4 hairpin.
As ideal point I mean a lane changer positioned in a breaking zone that would move your car from outside to inside.

Now, I agree that maybe there is a flaw with the above track design: but this is exactly the point I am making that equal length lanes do not necessarily translate in a track that is more digital friendly.
That is why I am saying that is more important that one designs a track with proper passing points (again this is what digital friendly is for me).
Of course, it might be the case that a non-equal-length-lane track design is proner to be less digital friendly.

So at the end of the day, it boils down to racing on the layout and see...just looking at a track from a pic will not tell you if it is a good digital track.
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The problem is that even the best track designers can't guarantee a track will drive well until it has been tested IRL. Similarly, we can't guarantee that a track will have neck and neck driving until it has been tested. But, IMHO, a track is more likely to be uneven if the lanes are uneven, so you might as well start off with even lanes, if you can. :) At the very least, don't start off with double the difference, as the layout from the OP.
i can see the point , my track has equal lanes but one is harder to drive ,you need to be really switched on to get a near equal time ,where as the other is a tad more relaxed ,i,m only talking .2 of a second in a 10 sec lap but you really need to be on the edge so to speak on the"slower" lane ,so in that regard ( on my track design ) there is a faster lane and lane changes need to be placed for that , cos even the "slow " lane is faster in sections than the "fast" lane
On another note, your lanes are not both the same. You've created an inside loop, aka paperclip, as opposed to a figure 8. Your lanes are more different than if it were just an oval. Whether you believe equal lane lengths is important or not, I wanted to make sure you were aware of that.

IMHO, equal lanes are important, not even for digital, but especially for digital.
Hello

Thanks for the advice for power tap. I don't understand why you are mentioning the lanes must be equal since we can change line? Why is this important in digital? I build this circuit because there is straight line to go fast and curves for challenge, but I did not take care of line length
Great, thanks to all for these reply. I will add power taps. I there any rule on how many join for before extra power tap?. What gage are you using for power tap? Can I use terminal block to bring all wire and then connect to the apb track?
I would guess you will need 3 jumpers with the size of our layout. Start with your first jumper the furthest point from your powerbase, see how much that improves things. Probably cut that distance in half (that is how I came up with 3). You will be able to see for yourself how long you can go without a jumper. Some people count connections, others just by distance. I have a 15' x 7' table and have 5 jumpers on my track, but I am running digital. My lane changers work better when they are close to a jumper. I used 16 gauge lamp wire. I think Slot car corner has some great info on wiring your track. I studied up on this when I built my track, but I started a few years ago.
Somone will probably say I did it wrong (blah, blah), but it is my track and it is awesome!
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Are you using new track pieces or used one? You might need to crimp the rail connectors on each track piece.
Adding power booster will help for sure.
I like the track: it seems a version of Tsukuba folded in a paper clip configuration.

Usually (99.9%) of times I agree with MrFlippant but not on the equal lane lengths: in my personal experience, the length of each lane does not matter.
What matters is that you have stretches of track where moving (for a time) from the "fastest" lane gives a temporary advantage.
Crucially important is the positions of the lane changers to move from the fastest lane and to return back into to (once the overtake has been completed).
All track are new. The layout is taken from the internet but I stretch it and added 3 line changer a bit before the curves. I do agree that if lane are not equal it might not be a big issue since interior lane is more difficult to run (at least for beginner like me!) also you can change line to take advantage of best track.
I don't understand why you are mentioning the lanes must be equal since we can change line? Why is this important in digital?
In analog racing, it's customary for the drivers to rotate through all the lanes. For that kind of racing, length doesn't matter much for the actual racing, because everyone gets a chance on the short lane(s) and the long lane(s). Equal lap times are nice for close racing, but the actual race is over many heats where drivers get a turn on each lane.

For digital racing, it's rare for there to be any kind of rotation, since, as you said, they can change lanes. The race is usually a longer race, often with fuel/pit lane activity along with the actual racing. When the drivers in a race are not equally/closely skilled with closely matched cars, the lane length really doesn't matter. In fact, many people never get into a race where that's the case, and so never experience the frustration of a track where the lanes are uneven enough to make a pass extremely difficult. Why would it be difficult? Well, imagine two closely matched cars/drivers. They both naturally gravitate to the lane that gets them around the track faster. In the majority of cases, in my personal experience racing on a wide variety of tracks, the faster lane is the shorter lane when they are unequal. So, whoever gets into that lane first in the lead, is much more easily able to hold onto the lead, because the only way to get ahead of them is to change into the longer, slower lane, and push extra hard to get ahead, hoping that the other car makes a mistake or otherwise does not keep pace and falls behind. Usually, it ends up coming down to hoping that the leader makes some kind of error and falls behind.

But, when the lanes are of equal length, it's more likely that they can be traveled in a similar amount of time. While there might be a preferred lane, the other lane is not nearly as detrimental, and a driver has a much higher chance of getting ahead with some skillful driving, even if the other car does not make any egregious errors in his driving.

Again, though, this really only matters when there is real competition, and not so much when it's just for fun with a bunch of people that are not matched well. The faster cars go around the slower ones until the race ends. I also know that many people will eventually settle on a layout and not want to change it. If you make the layout above, and end up with some real competition, you will find this situation to be frustrating, but changing the track might be prohibitive for some reason.

That is why I always encourage people to move toward a layout that has equal lane lengths if possible. If they don't want a bridge/overpass, that's fine, but the LAST thing you want to do is make a bridge that creates an even greater difference between the inside and outside lane lengths. I've raced competitively on tracks like that, and there really is very little hope of making a pass unless the lead car(s) crash.
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So, whoever gets into that lane first in the lead, is much more easily able to hold onto the lead, because the only way to get ahead of them is to change into the longer, slower lane, and push extra hard to get ahead, hoping that the other car makes a mistake or otherwise does not keep pace and falls behind. Usually, it ends up coming down to hoping that the leader makes some kind of error and falls behind.

But, when the lanes are of equal length, it's more likely that they can be traveled in a similar amount of time. While there might be a preferred lane, the other lane is not nearly as detrimental, and a driver has a much higher chance of getting ahead with some skillful driving, even if the other car does not make any egregious errors in his driving.
Very good explanation. Real F1 race must have unequal lane length because when I watch F1 course the situation is like the one your describing, one guy taking the first place after 10-15 laps and run for couple of hours until he crash or win! ;)

I'm starting, this my second layout and main purpose is to have fun with friends, find new friend to come and play on this track and do scenery on the layout, that why I'm setting height for mountain, bridge, etc.

Thank you for your help, I have a lot to learn on this. And I take all advices.
Thanks for this I never saw this video. What an exciting race. Gilles Villeneuve, the greatest I would say, gone too soon. I guy from Québec.
Very good explanation. Real F1 race must have unequal lane length because when I watch F1 course the situation is like the one your describing, one guy taking the first place after 10-15 laps and run for couple of hours until he crash or win! ;)

I'm starting, this my second layout and main purpose is to have fun with friends, find new friend to come and play on this track and do scenery on the layout, that why I'm setting height for mountain, bridge, etc.

Thank you for your help, I have a lot to learn on this. And I take all advices.
Of course real racing is very much like that. The difference is that they have more opportunities for passing.. pretty much anywhere they feel like taking a risk. A well designed digital slot car track has lane changers in what is believed to be the best places, but in practice, not always the case. When the cars are neck and neck, it can take multiple laps to successfully make a pass. Passing in a single corner, or between a couple of lane changers is rare when the cars and drivers are equal, and the stakes are so much lower if a crash happens.

But, as you said, it's just for fun. You did mention mountains and bridges and such... which means work that you will be loathe to do again in the future, should you decide that your inside loop is problematic when the chips are down and it's no longer just for fun with kids or mates with a beer or two.

But, I think I've made my case. You are the judge and jury of your own track. Regardless of the final layout design, I look forward to seeing your progress, especially with the scenery. :)
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