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I have two CLCs in my SSD layout. One is a C7010 In To Out Right Hand, the other is a C7007 Out To In Left Hand.

Yesterday evening I decided I wanted to test out my recently acquired C7024 6-car APB in Analog mode for the first time. I made the necessary mods (cuts underneath) to the CLCs, and stuck some gaffa tape on the moving flippers so they wouldn't get accidentally moved into a lange change position by a passing car's braid guide plate.

I also applied some gaffa tape to the two C7036 XLCs in my layout for the same reason and added in a pair of Scalextric power booster cables to provide additional power to a point about half way round the ~ 50 foot per lane layout.

OK, so far so good.

I then take a couple of 2003 analog Mini Coopers (C2484A and C2485A) to test them out with the Analog mode on the APB. These cars do not have the newer 'quick-change' braid plates on them, they have older style braid plates on them (blue ones at that).

Test a car on the outside lane, all is fine...even the lap counting works (I'd read somewhere that the APB didn't like braid plates that weren't black but the Mini's blue plate didn't give my APB any problems).

Test a car on the inside lane...the car gets to the second bend (where the C7010 In To Out is located) and, as the car entered the CLC, a loud thud and the car stopped dead in its tracks. Tried the other Mini Cooper and same thing happens.

Put car back on track after CLC and run it round, no problems going over the equivalent section on the C7007 Out To In Left further around the track. Get to the first CLC again and smack! The sound of something hitting metal (the braid plate it turns out), and the car stops dead.

It appears that the guide blade plate is at fault here...I say this because I took a newly-acquired 009 Ford Mustang (C2976) and the same thing happened - and that car is fitted with the older style (i.e. non-quick change braid plate) - but when I ran a 2009 Scalextric Ford Escort Mk 1 club car (which has quick change braid plate), no problems at all, only a slight clattering sound as the car passed over the first CLC on the inside lane.

On closer inspection it seems that the design of the 'older' style braid plate is hitting the entrance flipper and/or the two rails immediately after it (the two rails that trail into the crossover section - if that makes sense!)

Has anyone else seen this problem? I can't see any visitble defects, such as warping, with the C7010 track piece and there are no problems at all using analog (or digital for that matter) cars in Analog mode going over the same CLC, although the cars that don't have the problem with the first CLC all have the newer quick change braid plates. And there are no problems at all with the C7007 CLC, even with the cars that stop on the C7010 CLC.

It's driving me nuts! Why is this happening on one CLC and not the other? And why oh why, if it's the braid plates at fault here, did Scalextric fit an older style braid plate to a car (Ford Mustang) made in 2009?

I wanted to keep the CLCs in position, and not have to change track pieces out when running in analog mode via the APB, hence the mods I made to the CLCs beforehand. But this is driving me nuts!

Is there anything else I should check for? And if it IS the braid plates at fault, can these be converted to the newer type? Layout diagram shown, if it helps in any way. The cars travel right to left, the 'guilty' CLC is the first one you see (second bend).

 

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Andrew Wallace
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I had something similar to this happen before. The trick is to put a bump in the slot on the outer rail and just before the flipper (take a look at a XLC and you will see what I mean as they generally have them). What this does is to kick the guide into the middle of the slot so that it can get past the flipper. Hope that makes sense...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
QUOTE (awallace @ 16 Jun 2011, 13:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I had something similar to this happen before. The trick is to put a bump in the slot on the outer rail and just before the flipper (take a look at a XLC and you will see what I mean as they generally have them). What this does is to kick the guide into the middle of the slot so that it can get past the flipper. Hope that makes sense...

Thanks Alan.

It occured to me after I posted that I actually saw this problem intermmitently on the same CLC piece, when running in digital mode, with a DPR-chipped Audi R8 (2011 club car). Sometimes the R8 would just stop on that CLC (without a lange change command from the throttle), with the same metallic thud noise as it entered the flipper.

In fact, looking at it more closely I can see that the flipper has taken a bit of a beating - and so have the 'older' guide plates on the Minis and Mustang. I did wonder if the track was more at fault as this had happened in digital operation with the flipper not stuck down with gaffa tape.

Sorry to sound like a numpty here, but what exactly do you mean by putting a bump in the slot on the outer rail? Any pics to show a numpty like me what you mean? And presumably I would have to remove said bump when reverting to digital operation?

Did you have the problem with the flipper part and the two trail-off rails, or just the flipper part?

Also, did you have the problem with the type of braid plates I mention? (i.e. older style, not quick-change type) Or was it happening with any car regardless of braid plate type?
 

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OK found one (elsewhere on the forum)


If you look very carefully at the left hand flipper you'll see a bump in the left rail just before it. There is one on the right but it blends in a little with the end of the right flipper.

In this case, the bump helps kick the guide out so it doesn't run into the end of the flipper when wanting to change lane.
 

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QUOTE (dJomp @ 17 Jun 2011, 00:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The bump was originally found in this thread: http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?...=12402&st=0 but of course the pics have not lasted the test of time. I can take a pic later on, if no-one beats me to it.

Thanks for the photo Rick, it's a shame the photo's in Drummer's original thread detailing such an easy fix are no longer available, as it was a great legacy & reminder of the early work Drummer did with SSD digital for us all (RIP Drummer).

PS. Just saw your track thread great work so far
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
QUOTE (dJomp @ 16 Jun 2011, 13:45) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>OK found one (elsewhere on the forum)


If you look very carefully at the left hand flipper you'll see a bump in the left rail just before it. There is one on the right but it blends in a little with the end of the right flipper.

In this case, the bump helps kick the guide out so it doesn't run into the end of the flipper when wanting to change lane.

Right, yes I can see that in the picture. What you say makes sense but I still don't understand how I get one of those 'bumps' into the rail of my 'offending' CLC


Also, why is this problem mostly (although not entirely) with cars that don't have quick-change braid plates and only on one CLC, not the other one?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
QUOTE (dJomp @ 16 Jun 2011, 13:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The bump was originally found in this thread: http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?...=12402&st=0 but of course the pics have not lasted the test of time. I can take a pic later on, if no-one beats me to it.

Rick,

In the thread you linked to I saw this post, which appears to be the same problem I'm having - especially with certain cars (i.e. those with non-quick change braid plates).

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=186818

I see AussieCapri didn't seem to get a definitive answer on this either.
 

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Greg Gaub
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It's more about how much of a tendency a car's guide has to want to go to the side that has the flipper tip. If a car's guide tends to be straight or to the other side of the slot, it will miss the tip of the flipper. Also, the more blunt the leading edge of a guide, the more likely it will catch that tip.

Putting the bump in is easy, and detailed in Drummer's thread linked above (the one mentioned to have lost the photos). Essentially, you're putting a small flat screwdriver into the rail from the bottom side and giving it a tweak.
 

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I'm surprised how much difference something like a guide blade can make. I've experienced this first hand on XLCs - my fleet of Start Single Seaters will sometimes deslot at the crossover point of the XLC - never had the problem with the other cars. Turns out the "regular" Scalextric guide blades are slightly tapered towards the front, and the start ones aren't. I guess the pointedness lets the other cars push past, whereas the start blades just hit and stop.

So I need to either modify the XLCs with a similar bump, or sand down the guide blades. Probably the latter, but need to test some more.

And as Greg said, it's a case of being a bit brave the first time and just bending the rail a bit - if it's too much it can always be bent back!
 

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Greg Gaub
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Last time I saw the inside of a Start car (pic on a web site), they were pretty simple. If the guide is loose enough to be pulled to one side by the pickup wires, see if you can make it pull to the other side the same amount, causing it to stay on center when allowed to move to its natural position. This is how most decent analog cars work, rather than having some kind of spring mechanism force the guide back to center. When it's working, it works great. When it's off center, it causes problems like the above.

I've also trimmed the tip of the frogs at the crossing point of a couple of my XLCs, but that was before I knew to make sure the guide centered itself properly.
 

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Glad to see this question has been asked as I've been having this problem with a left hand in-to-out CLC. I have the problem with the new guides and as said earlier you just get that big thump and the car de-slots or stops. Great to see that this is such an easier fix than I first thought and cant believe I didnt notice that the bump wasnt on the rail like the XLC. Makes you wonder just how much testing is done on these products before they are released. Thanks again to the folks on the forum for pretty much being able to answer nearly everthing.
cheers
Matt
 

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Mr. F. or someone else will probably correct me, but...

I believe that after Drummer discovered the solution for the CLC flipper, Hornby started putting the "dimple" ahead contact point of the flipper with the metal rails. The older ones did NOT have the dimple and the new ones do, as I recall. Not sure if the same is true for the XLCs ... I will have to look closer at mine.

Cheers!
 

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Greg Gaub
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I know that the old ones don't have it and the new ones do, but I don't know if Drummer did it before Hornby, or added missing ones after they made the changes. I'm too new to remember the timeline, but I'd bet that Drummer came up with it. ;-)
 

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Thanks, Mr. F.
I recall reading that Drummer worked on it quite intensively until he got a solution.
Then I recall people commenting on how their new CLCs had a dimple "pre-installed".
The timing seems more than coincidental, given that Hornby has benefitted from developments on this forum (i.e. the APB).
Would you agree?

Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
QUOTE (awallace @ 17 Jun 2011, 08:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As a nod towards someone who contributed significantly to SSD, I think that we can safely refer to this as "Drummer's dimple"
- I'm pretty sure he came up with the solution first.

What a great name to refer to it! And apologies for calling you Alan in an earlier reply in this thread, I can't edit it now either!


Now I absolutely get how to do to the fix, I need to check my CLCs to see if they have Drummers Dimples in them, but I only purchased them a month or so back so I would imagine that they would have them (unless retailer was selling me old stock).

Will report my findings on here later.

Thanks all for your input on this topic so far!
 

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"Drummer's dimples" is much better that what he called them.... ("nipples"
)
And a more fitting tribute.

Great idea!


Cheers!
 

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OK, so here's an update to this problem, which still hasn't gone away completely...

Firstly, I checked my two CLCs and my two XLCs to discover that BOTH of my CLCs do not have Drummer's Dimples.

However, both of my XLCs have them.

I have to say I was surprised to discover this because it has been suggested on this forum (including in this thread) that the newer CLCs have the dimples.

My CLCs came from two different UK retailers a couple of months ago, so if the newer CLCs have the dimples how come mine don't?


Just to re-iterate, I've only been getting the problem with the C7010 (in to out right hand) track piece, I do not have the problem at all with the C7007 (out to in left hand) track piece.

I created a small 'bump' in the C7010 track using a small screwdriver but the problem hasn't gone away completely. Cars do now go past the flipper but I can still hear them 'clatter' over the two rails that appear immediately after the entrance flipper - this happens regardless of what type of car I run (digital, analog, old-style braids, newer quick-change braids, etc).

The clattering is more pronounced on the cars with the older style braid plate (such as my 2003 "John Cooper Challenge" Mini Coopers).

I'm really frustrated with this, I made the bump bigger and still the clattering sound as the car hits/passes over the two rails that immediately follow the flipper.

At least they don't de-slot now but the problem still isn't resolved in my mind, as when the cars pass over the other CLC or the two XLCs, there is no clattering sound. There is no sound at all in fact.

Earlier today I toyed with the idea of ditching the CLCs in my layout altogether, I was so frustrated with this


I can't help but think that the track piece is itself to blame. The other CLC does not have the same problem at all and it too doesn't have a dimple.

Bear in mind, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I was also getting the CLC flipper-collision problem with some cars that have the quick-change (round shape) blade guide fitted.

Sending the track piece back to the shop or Scalextric is not an option as I made the mods necessary (thus voiding the warranty) to run in analog mode from the APB without having to take the CLCs out.

Short of buying another identical CLC and seeing if the problem re-occurs, I'm at a loss as to what to do.

 

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Greg Gaub
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The track piece IS to blame.
I think I know what you mean about the clatter after the flipper. Your description reminded me that after converting a CLC from one type to the other (moving the guts to the other end),I had cars catching and stopping on the end of the rail that starts at the BACK of the flipper. I ended up getting in there with a hobby knife and other tools to remove some of the plastic from behind that area under the rail, and bending the rail inward to form a taper so that the guides would not longer hit the blunt end of it, but skip past the back of the flipper and land on the rail past my newly added taper in the width of the rail.

You definitely have an older CLC. It's amazing how long some stock will sit around. That's why the CLCs are often on sale while the others are not. You might give Hornby/Scalextric a buzz and ask for a replacement because that/those are giving you so much grief.
 
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