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Mike Zimmerman
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Call it obsession if you like but, here is yet another one of my "variations" of the inspirational Classic Viper. In the beginning I had to improve upon the original (a matter of opinion, I guess) dubbing it the "Viper-Z":


Next came the "Pit-Viper":


...and now the Viper-Ray:


During all of the whittling, carving, sanding & molding processes, I noticed that this design is strangely similar to the Manta Ray. Not the Classic Manta Ray mind you (though it does seem to be a distant cousin) but, rather the real Mantaray show car. Interesting to think what the original designer had on his mind.
Making things a little easier on myself I did a back pour on my own Pit-Viper to get a general shape to start with. The cockpit was cut out so I could mold in a more rounded bubble type canopy:






Fast forward, and after a lot of elbow grease, a result:







Now some primer coats:



Some wet sanding and ready to pop one:



What a pretty sight, success!





Next up, the chassis.

Z
 

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Now, where did I see this shape before...

Ahhh..! The Graupner B24 Bat Boat!




QUOTE (32deuce)Next up, the chassis. Or maybe the hull?
 

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Mike Zimmerman
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1,138 Posts
For the chassis, pretty simple. Dubro rear bracket, .062 wire & .032 pans shaped into something that fits under the body:














For power, a great find (thanks to Steve Lovan) B-can Group 20 with great patina and never disassembled or mounted in a chassis. Hard to explain the lack of paint on the can, this was a warehouse find with no packaging. Anyone know? Mura?
At any rate it runs like a new one.


Pan assembly moves slightly in a "rattle pan" type configuration.
Buzco fronts and Riggen rears adorn the four corners:


After some paint:


and some fresh Alpha rubber, we're almost there:


















Track test proved to be a pretty good balance of handling & power. Love that vintage torque.

Z
 

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And I love looking at the creative genius of a true renaissance slot master. Beautiful car through and through!
Although you glossed over the performance and handling a bit.... care to elaborate?

As for the "B" can, that is indeed a late model Mura gp20 motor. It might appear to be unpainted, but was shot with a clear coat, to inhibit the rust process. I have one here just like it... but with sticker.

Again, beautiful car Mike.
 

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Super job Z ! I remember those Group 20 motors well - almost impossible to turn over on a home track ! I still have an original , first issue stock Group 20 Parma car somewhere . Paint job also stock Parma . Zig
 

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Mike Zimmerman
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
QUOTE And I love looking at the creative genius of a true renaissance slot master. Beautiful car through and through!
Although you glossed over the performance and handling a bit.... care to elaborate?

Gee thanks Jairus! Much appreciated.

As for the performance, I haven't been able to test on other than one track which has a high bank that I could NOT punch but, with Group 20 power it wasn't bad through the other turns. Nowhere near a "Horky" but, for a vintage car I was very happy. Could have been more balanced with less power which I may still try after visiting some of our other tracks in the area with this setup.

QUOTE As for the "B" can, that is indeed a late model Mura gp20 motor. It might appear to be unpainted, but was shot with a clear coat, to inhibit the rust process. I have one here just like it... but with sticker.

Never knew any of the motor co.'s clearcoated but, that's very logical. I was wondering why it wasn't rusting that much, I knew it had to have some kind of coating or anodizing.

When you say "Late Model" what year we talking here?

QUOTE Super job Z !

Thanks Zig! Great to have you back!

Z
 

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Well, I am shooting from the seat of my pants here but Mura introduced the "B" motor about mid '69. The first motors had two holes and the can was made from fairly thick material. The biggest improvement over the "A" can motor was the brush architecture, however Mura promoted the heck out of the lower CG. It WAS lower than an "A" but by only a little.
Unfortunately the motors still heated up when hotter winds were put in that Mura opened up the center to a large rectangular hole to allow more airflow. Pro-racers of the era continued using the "B" motor up till 1972 and I believe Mura manufactured them till '73 with the last ones painted pink with un-balanced arms.

Your motor is solidly a 1970-71 model with a balanced gp20 arm and was the best Mura available (till the "C" can motor was perfected).
The Mura Green Can came out late '70 with poor fitting cut down "B" can endbells, but that is a story better told by Philippe.

Incidentally, my "Balls out" Choti Mule is using the very same motor, albit: painted and rewound by Havlicek.

Edit: Added some pictures to make it clearer.
Here is a pic of my motor that's just like the one in Viper-Ray.


Here is an early "B" motor. This one I built for a 1969 Pro-car. That is why the additional cooling slot and chamfered can corners.


This demonstrates the differences in heights between the three motors.
 

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Mike Zimmerman
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I think my memory may be coming back. A few gems:



Are these 4 on the left the Mura Greens you mention? They are all tagged NCC20. The 2 on the right are not tagged and were painted silver. The paint on these B's is so thin, one side has good paint and the other side may be bare metal:



Next on the left, I believe is an UN-tagged "A" and the rest C-can's also UN-tagged. What would these be? 12's?



Next is more NCC20 tagged C-cans but, the 2 silver ones are hard turning. Feels like the arms are dragging on the magnets? Magnets don't look loose. As you can see, all of the above mentioned are still factory sealed with endbell pins intact and untampered.



These next 2 are odd colors but, also still sealed and tagged X-12.

Mura? or Mura under another name?



Parma sold a Grp 12 with silver can that was UN-tagged and made by Mura. I remember buying one new that looked like this:



No tag, twin hole silver C-can. Hmmm, any ideas?

Is the "A" can the same or close to a "D" in dimensions ?

Z
 

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What you have there is all Mura!
(Nice collection.)

The Mura "Green" can is pretty much the early "C" can motor designed by Bob Green.
Prior to that it was popular among pro racers, so I understood, to cut down an "A" can and solder it back together with shorter magnets (sectioning). The sheet metal pieces barely providing room for the rotating arm.

Bob Green designed the first "C" motors and those can be identified by no rear axle clearance slot in the can side, as is identified by your last pic.
The very early one's used cut down "B" can endbells which required two strips of shim material to center the endbell inside the mouth of the can.
But.... unless you have something in a sealed package, chances are that anything we as builders own was probably modified sometime in the past.
So proper identification depends on knowing the details. Which I only know enough to be dangerous.
Hopefully Dokk's new book will do some of that explaining when it's finally released.

New molds for the correct endbells were eventually made as was a version for the Mura "A" motor can with the new brush architecture somewhere about 1971 or 1972.
Whether the axle slot came before the new endbell is unknown to me but eventually bussbars were added to the brush hardware and the first modern slot car motor was born!
 

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Mike Zimmerman
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Out of my group of B's here, the green one's don't have the axle slot but, the 2 silver ones do. From the group of C-cans I have here, all the blue ones have no slot. Some of the silver one's do, some don't. The 3 silver ones I have here with the red endbells look identical except 2 have the slot, 1 doesn't.

Confusing as hell.

Seems if they had it on a B can, they would have had it on all C-cans which came later no?

Not the case.

Regardless, I may have to persue Havlicek's expertise on one of these silver B-cans which has a thrown winding. Maybe a possible candidate for the future proxy.

Z
 

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Thanks for great pics Jairus and Z ! Found that Parma car ! The motor has Mura 20 on the armature ! Still turns as well ! Zig
 

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Wow Jairus ---- I am impressed ! Years ago , I had to order mine from the states , and it took ages to get posted over ! Our local track was banked and not a long track at all This guy called Jeff was winning all the races , with a Dynamic Bandit . I had a Bandit as well , and as fast , but he purchased his first , so didn't want to be a copycat . I did beat him on a few occassions with my Cuc , but most of the time Jeff and this Bandit were superior . I still think to this day , he re-wound his motor , but you come up with many excuses , when you are losing -- well must of us do , me included ! Anyhow , our racing at the local track had no set rules , 1/24 scale and go for it ! When this Parma car arrived , I run it in as per instructions , then I let it cool down for an hour or so , then a bit more running in ! Now , I always remember the track record - Jeff had it and it was 102 laps in a certain time ( can't remember the time frame ) . So , now this Parma wing car was run in ! So , I asked the track owner (Bob ) to time me ------ I came off 3 or 4 times in the period , and still clocked up 126 laps ! Towards the end of the time period , the Parma car looked like a flash going by ! Come Saturday , race time , Jeff in attendance , I cracked 137 laps , and he also broke his pervious best and done 105 laps ! Every 3-4 laps , I was lapping him ! Yes , wing cars are fast , and enjoyable to drive , and are great fun , but they're not Thingies ! Zig
 

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Slot-A-Holic
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Heya Mike,

Thanks you VERY much for showing what you build to put under that body....
now i need to go back and edit my reply in the other thread.
 

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Mike,

This is brilliant work! I finally got to read through this build and was very impressed by your excellent work!
Great collection of motors as well. I really love your bodies that is why Catwoman was built arounf one of your masterpieces...!

-Max
 
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