[peter]

Some things that I did find interesting in the 'digital' discussion.

Some reiteration of some of the main issues regarding the prospects for 'digital'.

1) club racing vs home racing will it have an impact and if yes what might it bring with it. If not why not? etc.

2) the success of 'digital' setups vs todays 'analogue' setups. What may make the difference - if anything - if not what may become the biggest 'problems'? etc...

3) prospects for future 'standardization' and 'backward' compatibility. What could make all the difference for a continuity from the current 'analogue' diversity into a future with 'digital' diversity. Or what are the options or necessary basic ingrediences for a succesful or acceptable future development - e.g. standardization, interchangability and so on...

4) which are the major problems in 'traditional' non 'digital' slot racing setups that might be relevant to look at in effort to learn from them for future possible solutions. The idea would be to avoid predictable problematic issues as they may be experienced in the existing non digital solutions.

just some thoughts.

//peter

 

[Tropi]

Just to look at item 4 for a moment.

I see one aspect of today's systems as particularly problematical.
It is is that lane crossovers definitely cause more crashes.
The easy cure is to replace them with plain track and most people do.
Unfortunately, this will not be a possibility with digital lane changing circuits.
I don't see any physical way out of that.

But Beppe/Xlot has some smart electronically contolled protection systems in mind and this might be a good place to restate them, Beppe? I'd also be VERY interested in whether Beppe is still progressing his own proprietary track set up.

 

[peter]

That is a really good point Tropi.

We had a go at using the lane crossing at a venue not long ago and we did experience some problems with 'crashing'. The approach we had was to not let this become an exercise in 'sabotaging' (?) other racers driving. What we thought was that if it was a realy racing situation then to 'intentionally' crash into other racers would be seen as dangerous and punished in many instances. So after a quick discussion in the group the majority supported the idea that when a crash happens the 'audience' votes for who was to be made 'responsible' and a standardized punishment was employed. This turned out to be more difficult to implement than expected and only partly succesful. The reason was (ofcourse) that it sometimes can be rather difficult to determine who drove into whom etc... Now in a digital lane-change system one could imagine that there could be put additional sensors on the track so their would be a possibility to trace how the lane change actually happened. This might then be used to set (automatic?) punishment on the correct car - could for example be an enforced extra pit-stop etc. Or if you like crash and burn - the offender would automatically 'loose' that particular run...

... this could ofcourse mean that I would have to learn how to drive as well

//peter

 

[Tropi]

Beppe/Xlot has clearly defined ideas for reducing crashes on lane changes.
The problem with 'judgement calls' is that the disruption still happens and there can be bad feeings created if someone thinks the decision was unfair. Much better if the situation did not happen at all!

Now that we have a nice 'clean' thread, I will just reiterate what many people already know, but some seem to forget, is that I am EXTREMELY interested in digital aspects. However, I feel it is most important that we look at ALL aspects of it, without glossing over the downsides.

Stepping backwards to your Item 3)
I have to agree that both standardization and backwards compatibility is incredibly important to ensure any degree of success. It certainly looks as though Scalextric is addressing this aspect with the best chance of 'winning the race'!

 

[Xlot]

Preventing collisions on lane change is very easy : whenever you are approaching the LC and there's another car abreast on the other lane, the LC solenoid is inhibited - this can be achieved with a lap counter sensor and a time delay relay

I'm afraid judgement calls will remain, but only for shunts - that is why Wankel's study would be so important - see how serious the issue is, who is to blame when

As for my own project, [I suppose Peter doesn't know about it, what with 180 degree spins and no shunts] I should be going back to Rome in two weeks - and then it'll become a full time occupation.
The third (and hopefully final) track prototype should be ready by May, the big question is whether I'll wait until the end of the year for Scaley's Digital package or use SCX's initially - even though I know it's a dead end

 

[Oilslick]

Well let me just Dirty this thread up a bit!

I think the main difference with Digital lane changes as opposed to Classic, is that with Digital you have a CHOICE to change lanes. So if it looks like a crash will occur then you just choose not to.

Because as regards deciding blame on "racing incidents" this is where the difference between the various systems might come. Because if you have a lane change like that employed by SCX then because both cars might be going for a lane change its difficult to opportion blame. But under Scalectrix and Carrera's systems, at the moment they are limiting it to only 1-way lane change pieces, so in my opinion in such a case the blame should ALWAYS be with the car that changed lanes.

 

[peter]

@X-slot, You are right - I do not think that I did understand what your project intends to do - do you have a small description (non-technical?) for people that are not used to all the 'labels'?

Even though I am not new to slot-racing I am definitively new to some of the expressions used in this forum. Just to clarify - what is meant with 180-degrees spins in your particular project? And do you mean 'shunts' when a car drives in the same lane only - or do you also include when a car hits another car from behind no matter which lane they happen to be in (can happen when a car in front of you slides their rear end into the space of your lane, or when the lanes are closer together as in some chicanes etc)? Maybe there is a different expression that covers those alternative - but you have to bear in mind that not all of us in this forum are knowledgable in the jargon so commonly used in clubs. This does not mean however that we are not interested in the subject.

I can see the points with wanting to try it out with the Scalextric system - but could not some of the tests be run with the Carrera system as well? It is supposedly coming out at the market before Scalextric? Personally I think that SCX has the nicest coloured digital track for now.

But I guess that colour is not the most determining factor for the track succes (eh - just came to think of the Macintosh).

@Oilslick
Imagine that the lane-change is before a curve for example. The car that changes lane will slow down to be able to drive succesfully through the curve. Imagine that some-one else drives a car behind with full speed into the curve and hits the first car that is changing lane. Who is to be blamed?

//peter

 

[Xlot]

Hi Peter,
you can readily find info on my project in SF, albeit in odd places :
- pictures are midway through the "Slotcars in Dubai?" thread - the Pit Lane page 5
- description, "It was 1966" - History, Culture etc , page 2

I'd like your comments afterwards

About the test track, it's got nothing to do with the brand - it's this diode system that allows running two cars on the same lane - oddly enough, somebody reminded me of it a few days ago, but I didn't realize its interest until Wankel wrote about it

Ciao
Beppe

 

[Oilslick]

QUOTE (peter @ 14 Feb 2004, 04:51 PM)Imagine that the lane-change is before a curve for example. The car that changes lane will slow down to be able to drive succesfully through the curve. Imagine that some-one else drives a car behind with full speed into the curve and hits the first car that is changing lane. Who is to be blamed?

//peter
Well we're getting into the realms of "shunts" now with this one. If a car has fully completed a lane change and receives a bash then it can't really be its fault if an accident occurs. When a car as you describe goes "full speed into a curve" then I think it will be obvious to those around that he didn't intend braking and with only one intension in mind.

The rules for shunts are open to interpretation, but lane changing is pretty clear cut IMHO.

 

[jonny s]

Come and have a go at Phoenix on March 28 guys

 

[Oilslick]

QUOTE (jonny s @ 24 Feb 2004, 02:38 AM)Come and have a go at Phoenix on March 28 guys

Message x 4 = SPAM?

 

[jonny s]

Lost me there mate

I`m trying to point out that an opportunity is approaching where you can get better informed on the new kit and maybe a play too? Adrian will be presenting this aspect at the Phoenix meet.

 

[Intergrali]

Yup, we knows it's on now jonny, let it publicise itself.

now I've got a rollocking for one liners this time so stoppit!

 

[moped rider]

Bearing in mind the title of this thread "Prospects for Digital" and also the fact that "Phoenix GT Open Day" may well be Adrian Norman's first public appearance since the launch of the various products at the Toy Fairs, then it is probably relevent to mention it here as the prospects for digital may become much clearer by 18:00 hours on that Sunday!

Remember that the leader of the country Mr Tony Blair was in the Midlands only this week answering questions from the public, and it could be that Adrian may well feel that he is in Mr Blair's shoes on the Sunday when hosting a question and answer session. The Midlands does seem a favourite haunt for public discussion. Remember Bill Clinton with his pint of beer when he made his visit? It must be the warm hospitality.

I suspect that one theme will keep cropping up during the day. Don't you?

Just curious but have any of you any blindingly good questions that you would like to put to Adrian on a proxy basis if you are not going? Ones that he can answer!

Moped

 

[jonny s]

Well guys words fail me so that should keep some of you happy

 

[Intergrali]

Adrian if your reading this, I have lots of questions on lots of subject so make sure I corner you some time during the day.

Jonny same applies to you.

and Moped.. be prepared.. I've got the twin handed thing down to a tee.
and next we will be controlling the cars with our feet! there will be no way anyway that that will be easy to do.

what do you mean jonny? words fail you?

 

[Fergy]

Words may fail you, Jonny, but not me! Moped, what have you been smoking!!!

Scalextric and Adrian are now on the level of Tony Blair and international governments! Oh wait... you've been reading your own posts again, haven't you!

Good grief....

 

[jonny s]

I really do wonder what I`m doing here sometimes. Do people honestly think that this sort of event just comes together and happens if you post a note saying "come to my party on 28th" If people are not interested then fair enough but a one or two line post in each relevant thread does what harm guys? There are still SF members posting today that they have just heard about it so It will not publicise itself. I know from experience what it takes to promote a large scale event and I am not willing to accept failure as an option.

 

[Fergy]

Announce the day as you wish! And good luck with it!

 

[MrBugs]

Xlot, would you look at my idea and give me your thoughts please?

Thanks
Brent