[superhornets]

Hi Guys
Heard recently that ferrari and Red bull have pulled out of FOTA or whatever its called this week
Why have they done that?

Are they negotiatiing their own deals with tracks ?
Is this the start of the collapse of berneis empire ?

Discuss !

Cheers tony

 

[Mike Newns]

I think this particular spat is about the £40m spending cap (which Ferrari were probably cheating on anyway).

Mike

 

[gasowder]

Hi Tony,
Probably suits Bernie.
Add Sauber & probably Torro Rosso....
Eddie

 

[stoooo]

I have been utterly perplexed this last few years. The Poison Dwarf keeps spouting off about keeping costs down, yet keeps adding more events to the calendar. It's not cheap lugging an entire F1 encampment all over the world. If they dropped it back to 12 events, then there'd be more money in the pot for development. This would make each win all the more special ('cos there's fewer wins to be had) and they wouldn't clash as often with other important events such as the WRC, IRC, BTCC, DTM, BRC etc etc etc.

I'm also not a fan of the artificial racing instruments. While DRS and KERS are very clever, they're just toys that mess with the flow of things. And forcing teams to use both tyres in a given weekend is silly. Why not give them a choice from all the tyres so they can use what best suits their car and strategy ? Want two sets of medium-hards and only have one pit stop ? Sure. Six sets of super softs and five pit stops ? No worries.

I think that the sport needs to loosen up a bit to allow for some real fresh innovation. Allow different engine configurations to be used on the same grid (turbo four bangers versus V12s anyone ?) and let them go to town on the aero. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsports. Isn't it time we saw what these teams could really achieve if we let them off the leash ? In such an environment I'd be far less opposed to KERS and DRS as they'd just be a couple of options in a whole arsenal of new toys.

Oh, but they still have to make driver safety the #1 priority. While spectacular crashes are often fun to watch, it takes a real sicko these days to want to see racing drivers killed in action.

 

[Martyn_]

Ferrari? Cheating? Surely not!

 

[scalexkid]

I seem to recall hearing something uncannily similar some 6 or 7 years ago, talk of a new GP circus, all new tracks, new teams yada yada yada

scalexkid

 

[honestjudge]

I thought it was mclaren and Ferrari fed up with the amounts of cash Red bull were spending that was the issue!

link to report

 

[Ade]

hi
HRT pulled out at the start of the year and now Sauber and Toro Rosso have followed in the footsteps of Ferrari and Red Bull.

 

[SplitRim]

Who Cares?

Moving it to Sky, means I and a number of friends wont be watching. Hopefully loads more people will boycott and the poison dwarf will get his just rewards.

Even if I didnt disagree with paying, I'd rather spend a seasons cash on attending a couple of BTCC rounds.

 

[montoya1]

For once I have no issue with Bernard, it was always going to happen. The real numpties are the teams for promising it would not happen, when they had no right to, and the BBC for taking incompetence to new levels...

 

[Martyn_]

The Beeb just can no longer afford it. I'll be happy enough with the highlights. Sadly, we're getting to the stage were just about all good sporting events are on the Aussie Filth-Meisters subscription channels. Shame.

As long as Red Bull don't run away with the season again!

 

[f143]

yawn,zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[honestjudge]

QUOTE (SplitRim @ 10 Dec 2011, 15:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Who Cares?

Moving it to Sky, means I and a number of friends wont be watching. Hopefully loads more people will boycott and the poison dwarf will get his just rewards.

Even if I didnt disagree with paying, I'd rather spend a seasons cash on attending a couple of BTCC rounds.

QUOTE (montoya1 @ 10 Dec 2011, 16:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>For once I have no issue with Bernard, it was always going to happen. The real numpties are the teams for promising it would not happen, when they had no right to, and the BBC for taking incompetence to new levels...

QUOTE (snurfen @ 10 Dec 2011, 23:47) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The Beeb just can no longer afford it. I'll be happy enough with the highlights. Sadly, we're getting to the stage were just about all good sporting events are on the Aussie Filth-Meisters subscription channels. Shame.

As long as Red Bull don't run away with the season again!

So what has this got to do with FOTA, the topic of the thread???

 

[driver#8]

FOTA always has been a fairly toothless organisation. The only thing such a body can/would be used for is a coup d'etat in running the sport of the kind that Bernie and Max engineered through FOCA in the early Eighties. The problem for FOTA is, of course, that without a Bernie to steer the ship and run a three-line whip on all the inmates, it lacks power.

As Mr.E always says - democracy's a very nice thing, but if you want to get anything done you need a dictatorship!

There are only three teams in the sport with any vested interest or serious pedigree - Ferrari, McLaren and Williams. Both McLaren and Williams have become very adept at branching out from F1, while Ferrari remains the only team for whom F1 is its raison d'etre.

Ultimately Ferrari will always gladly allow itself to be wooed by the sport's promoters and will cheerfully undermine the solidarity of any teams' organisation in order to get a competitive or financial edge.

As for the rest of the field - they're mostly transient. Even though it's riding high for now, Red Bull is ultimately a fizzy drink marketing operation and whenever Red Bull discovers a better value way of advertising its fizzy drinks on such a scale it will be gone. Likewise any other sponsors - including Mercedes and Lotus - don't actually have to be in F1 and haven't been there for most of the world championship's history.

There simply isn't any point in a teams' body with so little genuine strength, no common purpose and when virtually half the members owe their existence to the very bodies that FOTA is supposed to have been standing up to!

 

[Martyn_]

QUOTE (honestjudge @ 11 Dec 2011, 13:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>So what has this got to do with FOTA, the topic of the thread???
Balance and background? Relax mate, it's all related.

Driver #8 has it fairly well summarised. Good points well made.

Sorry if putting our own personal prejudices on the topic have offended you, but take a tip from your own signature and just apply a bit of a "chilled" attitude to this thread. It is after all not really directly about slots, we aren't changing club rules or anything, so no harm done, eh mate?

 

[marctownsend]

Right Tony

Now folk have got all that stuff off their chests, the answer is of course....MONEY!

Red Bull have been overspending massively and it doesn't fit their image as the little guy to get caught so no longer being bound by the resource restriction agreement is a convenient out.

Anyboby who believes RBR are just doing a better job needs to think back two years when Ross Brawn had two years of Honda budget to blow in one year and was hailed as a genius without equal as newey is now. Don't be fooled, RBR are a technical and r and d powerhouse with a massive budget, let's remember they have practically invented tech to circumvent the rules, fair play they have the trophies in the cabinet but I'm not over impressed.

Ferrari have a sponsorship deal with Marlboro worth more than the operating budgets of force india and caterham combined and they are not even on the car, think what the rest pay plus all other F1 and road car revenue, imagine all thaat money and nothing to spend it on. FOTA did a job for them when they wanted rid of Max, now they want to go back to outspending everyone.

I'll leave you to work out why Red Bull funded Toro Rosso and Ferrari engined Sauber have pulled out.

As for HRT, the mind of Collin Kolles is I fear a very strange place!

 

[superhornets]

Marc
I am horrified ,you show enough cynicism to be someone my age !!!

Cheers tony

 

[montoya1]

QUOTE (marctownsend @ 12 Dec 2011, 14:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ferrari have a sponsorship deal with Marlboro worth more than the operating budgets of force india and caterham combined and they are not even on the car, think what the rest pay plus all other F1 and road car revenue

It has been widely report, fwiiw, that Altria pay for the whole car, and then charge other sponsors for the right to be on the Ferrari with them.

 

[marctownsend]

That's fascinating Deane, I didn't know that. It does make more sense than the Point of Sale branding and Staff/Distributor rewards and incentives reasoning I had been aware of. Taking the risk from the team kind of like that guy did with Lotus in the early 90's, but with more success. Wonder how performance bonuses and stuff work, I want to know more.

Lazy I know but you don't have a link or two? I'm not a great google detective, cheers.

 

[honestjudge]

QUOTE (snurfen @ 11 Dec 2011, 19:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Balance and background? Relax mate, it's all related.

Driver #8 has it fairly well summarised. Good points well made.

Sorry if putting our own personal prejudices on the topic have offended you, but take a tip from your own signature and just apply a bit of a "chilled" attitude to this thread. It is after all not really directly about slots, we aren't changing club rules or anything, so no harm done, eh mate?

What are you on about.

This section has nothing to do with the slot aspect, so how you think i made a connection to slots is bizarre.

Not sure how you come to the conclusion I am offended, I don't know you and you don't know me so. I really don't stress out at things written on the site, I just try to comment in a just and reasoned way, what others make of it is up to them.
Also thanks for the advice on my own signature......like I need advice from you, lol cheers mate