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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I'm thinking last night (I know, let's pause there for a moment...) and was wondering if you can take a vacu-formed body and use it as a mold for a resin car.

Is this possible? Any problems with the resin not liking vacu-formed plastic?

The reason I ask is that Pattos has several cars that I can't get RTR, and I'd like to kit-bash them.

Thanks,
 

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Oh, that's easy my friend.
You see, you take the stuff and pour it into the thing, and then you mix it all around, cut off the extra stuff and pull it out and PRESTO! A Fergy-special MacBRMFerEagle!


Seriously, Dave, you've come to the right place with this question. Obviously, I have no idea what I'm talking about per our phone conversation!

Steve
 

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Alan Tadd
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Gentlemen

You have raised this topic at just the right time.

This thread explains the principles of resin casting, and I'm sure it's possible to do it on Vac form shells, but , if I remember correctly, you do have to fill the shell with modelling clay or similar to keep it's shape. I think Graham has done some of these in the past so maybe he can advise.
See Here

Regards

Alan
 

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Brian Ferguson
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Please, JP! Family board and all....


Seriously, has anyone tried this stuff? I'd love to know what the resulting "shell" comes out like and how "workable" it is for modifications, etc.
 

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Alan Tadd
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Yes Fergy....It's very good.

This is a draft of a review I did for Swiss, but it got lost when his Computer crashed!....I'll try and find the photo's

Remember this is only a draft!....

Patto's Instant Hard Body - A review
How on earth do you write a review of a product called Patto's Instant Hard Body?
All I can say is that when I received it in the post it seemed to make my wife very excited, I really can't understand why!
Enough of my ramblings on with the Review. This strange Australian brew consists of two small bottles of semi liquid, simply labelled "Patto's Instant Hard Body". The bottles have no indication of contents.
(Insert Photo One here)
If you talk to Bruce at Patto's he will tell you that it was developed for him by a chemist friend and he really has no idea what it consists of……………. The Instructions accompanying the bottles are brief but adequate and cover the essentials to get you started.
This is my preferred method of using the product: -
1) Wash the lexan bodyshell and dry, preferably with a hairdryer, (I knew that Christmas present to my wife would come in handy!).
2) Mask up on the inside of the bodyshell all windows, lights and wheel arch/cockpit areas that are either later to be removed or must be left transparent. TIP. Always use a good quality modelling masking tape, such as Tamiya, it really pays in the long run as it avoids the dreaded seepage.
3) Mix equal amounts from the two jars into an old dish or container. Remember this stuff will paint onto the shell like water so you only need a tiny amount. I bet you all mix far too much with your first attempt. Everyone does!
4) Thinly paint over the inside of the shell. Do not apply the mixture too thickly as it "exfoliates" when drying. This will ruin your shell. I speak from experience on this matter. TIP. Use the cheapest brush you can for this job, as you will probably end up disposing of it after your night's work.

(Insert Picture Two here)
5) Now throw away any mixture you have left over.

DOMESTIC WARNING
DO NOT wash the residue down your sink, it will solidify and could cause a blockage in the waste
pipe……or so I've been told! TIP.I keep an old dish and knife to cut out the residue into a bag and
deposit into the wastebin. I'm afraid whichever disposal method you use it will be messy.
6) Let the shell dry for about one hour, the hairdryer again comes in useful. You will find the mixture on the shell will tend to drain to the bottom so turn the bodyshell regularly to avoid uneven build-up of material.
7) Mix up a new batch and apply a second thin coat. I find two or three coats at the most are adequate to achieve the thickness of shell I require. After you have finished this phase of the work I find that the brush is now useless and can't be used again. Anyone who has any suggestions on how to reclaim solidified brushes please let me know.

(Insert Picture three here)

8) Leave the shell to dry/harden overnight and you now should have a hard-bodied shell. TIP. Prior to painting the outside of the shell I use a very fine sandpaper which improves the adhesion properties of the paint.
9) Remove the masking tape from the inside of the shell, (you will probably require a modelling knife to do this), and apply fresh tape to the outside of the shell over the window apertures. You can spray the finished shell, apply decals and complete with a finishing sealer in exactly the same way, as you would paint a normal hard-bodied shell.

I think Patto's have got this product just right and it definitely works for me. I consider it good value for money.
What it does is open up a whole new series of body shells that previously you couldn't or perhaps chose not to use.
It also allows the use of more typical bodymounting methods, i.e. TSRF type side mountings or screw/tube mountings, as opposed to the Lexan fixing of pins through the side of the bodyshell.
The only way I have found to get this product is directly from Patto's in Australia.
The website address is :-
http://members.optusnet.com.au/pattosplace/home.html

It currently costs 20 AUD which at the present time equates to £8.48 (GBP) or 12.08 (EUR) or 14.8 (USD)
Delivery to the UK is approx. 10 days and costs roughly 5 (AUD).
I apologise for the poor quality photographs; the digital camera age seems to have passed me by! Perhaps I can persuade Mrs. Nuro to give me some lessons!
Have Fun

Alan
 

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Brian Ferguson
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Thanks, Beejay! Sounds interesting. So, bearing in mind that the outer skin is still PETG, you can cut, drill, and work the finished hard shell in much the same way as a hard plastic or resin shell? Cool! I'm going to have to try this on a future shell!
 

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Alan Paterson
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umm, Al,
you forgot the Pics buddy... Pls post them, as I'm also contempalting this method..
I HAVE, in the past, used a local supplier who imports and supplies resins and Silicones for various industries...
I got a Silicone product to make moulds, and a 2 Part resin mix for "slush-casting..."
Not fun, but, you can get the job done.. It's workable Lifespan" is like, only 5 or 6 minutes after the mixtures have been mixed, and I tried, and relatively suceeded in making a resin body out of a Lexan one, but, it wasn't as good as the Silicone Mould I made..

I think the Product the Bruce has marketed, which Alan's covered here is the best option, sounds pretty easy to work with, and, based on the fact you PAINT it on, in two or three layers, you'll then be able to get a very consistent thickness all over..

Must look into that in future, thanks for the review Al..


Regards

Big Al
www.slotcars.co.za
 

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I recently used a Betta shell of the CanAm McLaren M8A which I poured resin into to produce a hard shell, I also bought a clear vac form so that when I cut out the various apertures I had the screen glazing to fit.

The clean up is very similar to when working with any resin shell, the second picture shows the beginning of the alterations to the front wheelarches to convert it into an M8B





I haven't tried the Patto instant hard body method yet but it sounds a good idea.

David
 

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Alan Tadd
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Sorry chaps...the review was written some time ago and I'm afraid the photo's have gone, (several PC re-images ago!).

However this is a picture of a C100 I did fairly recently. The body was an ABslotsport Lexan shell, with two coats of Patto's Hard body, I did it this way as I needed to cut out certain areas for ducts etc.



You do need to apply very thin coats as the material does not cover evenly.

Apply one coat, let it dry and then fill in any gaps with a second coat.

Regards

Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hmm. This sounds like something that might work. Pattos has the cars I'm looking for.

BUT..., David just showed that what I asked is also possible. Maybe I'll do 1 of each.

BTW, David, how'd the shell come off the resin when done? Did you coat the shell with anything?

Thanks,
 

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Phil Kalbfell
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I have done this type of moulding on several old vintage vac forms. I use a product called Easy Cast or Pro Cast both are very similar. They are 50/50 resin mixes similar to the Micro Mark product. The main problem is that IF it is layered on as in patto's and the original removed off the outside the resin will delaminate. The best way is to "slush"mould the body in one go then cut out the windows etc. The resin will stick to the vac form. I usually polish the inside then use a PVC release agent before casting but sometimes the original must still be cut off the resin.
By removing the original the detail is better as all the detail is on the inside of the vac form. Once cast the new body can be worked just like any other resin body.

If you would like to Email me off line I may be able to give youa guide to body selection for moulding.

Phil
 

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I'm getting confused, well, actually I've been confused since birth but that's another story


Pattos stuff stays on the inside of the body? It doesn't get released as a seperate entity?
 

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QUOTE (dreinecke @ 2 Aug 2004, 23:40)BTW, David, how'd the shell come off the resin when done? Did you coat the shell with anything?
I wiped the inside of the shell with Vaseline as I didn't have any mould release agent. I expected to damage the vac form shell when I took the resin shell out but it came out without a problem.

When I tried the same technique with a Patto Lotus 18 clear vacform shell the resin bonded with the material and I couldn't get it out, I don't know if that was because I didn't put enough Vaseline on or it was because of there was a reaction between the two materials.

David
 

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Brian Ferguson
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There seems to be some confusion about Patto's "hard body" system. With Patto's system, you are adding layers of material to the inside of a PETG vac body which result in the shell having the characteristics of a hard body - the original body stays as part of the end result.
 

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Phil Kalbfell
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Sorry for the confusion. Patto intends that the resin remains inside his bodies,so they are really vac forms with resin on the inside for thickness. I use the vac form as a mould to make resins! By removing the vac form I can add detail and alter the body by sanding and filling etc as required and I have a true resin body.
Phil
 
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