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Questions about D132 vs ProX (how much has it improved?)

2.1K views 10 replies 5 participants last post by  Longbow  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hello! I was one of the early adopters of Digital, back when ProX first came out. I built a massive single lane Pro-X layout, but the tech wasn't exactly ready for prime time. I eventually built a 4-lane Carrera monster analog track but took it down and sold everything when I moved.

I was trying to recapture some nostalgia, and was going to buy a 4-lane AFX Super International track, but then I saw that Carrera has updated their digital system. I can't fit a "club" sized track, but there is a nook that I could either fit a 4-lane HO track or set up Carrera Digital on the floor.

(Incidentally, I got pretty deep into digital. 2005? 2006? When N-digital came out, I retrofitted it to work with Carrera track and lane changers. I also figured out a way to quadruple (quintuple, etc) the power so there was no power drop with 8 cars. It was similar to how they would parallel Scalectric Digital power bases, except I was buying the chips from Mouser. Unfortunately, Ninco Digital had its own problems and appears to be dead these days...)

Anyway, I had some questions about the new D132/124 and Carrera in general.

1) Frankly, the reason I returned to analog was because the driving experience was much better. ProX was "pretty good", especially with chipped Fly Cars, but Carrera cars were slow tanks with tall gear ratios and strong magnets. Are Carrera cars any better in 2020? Are they still slow tanks?

2) When analog cars are chipped to D132, is the driving experience just as good as analog? Full acceleration and braking, throttle control, etc. I read there is only 4-bit, 16 levels of control. I don't remember it being a problem with ProX, while the same could not be said of the Ninco system. (ProX worked pretty well, but it would have been better if you could adjust the voltage curve so the decoders worked well with every motor and gear ratio.)

3) How many amps (how much motor) can the decoders handle? The system is designed to run 1:24 cars, so I figure with the right decoder, you can build a really quick 1:32 car.

4) Does regulated power supply solve the problem of voltage drop with the standard CU? When you have six cars on the track, can you "feel" the other cars? With Ninco Digital, the control units would need to be paralleled in order to avoid voltage drop. I don't remember all the details.

Trying to decide if I should buy the AFX Super International set, or get a Carrera Digital set to scratch the itch.
 
#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
I would say the control of a Carrera Digital slot car is very good but not quite as good as analog. You also have a few dead spots on the lane change tracks so the cars can hesitate for a split second if the car is moving at a slow speed. The power is very good with Carrera Digital so power surges really aren't a problem.
 
#3 ·
1) Carrera cars have gotten a little better than they were 15 years ago, but they're still on the tank-side compared to other makes. But, there are more and more chip options out there, so digitizing any car is a lot easier than it used to be. Plus, it's not hard to make the layout analog compatible as well, so you don't have to put a chip in EVERY car just to be able to run it.

2) Control is more about the car and how the controller FEELS than it is about the number of steps. I've seen analog controllers that cost hundreds of dollars, that top racers swear by and claim to have the best "feeling"... with barely a dozen contact points for its wiper board. It's not the number of steps, but what those steps represent, how the car responds to them, and how the controller feels in your hand and under your finger. Along with chipping your favorite cars (not just Carrera), there are controller options out there. I'm a big fan of the RamJet-X controller. It's wired, but it's a trigger controller that feels fantastic. I just can't get along with the plungers they continue to sell with their systems. Carrera cars, being the tanks they've always been, won't feel as responsive as a slot.it or NSR, regardless of the controller you're using.

3) Because of their weight and magnets, chips for Carrera cars need to be pretty robust, and they are. As long as you're not slapping a chip into a 1/24 flexi or something, you can chip almost anything. And again, there are a lot of options out there for chips, not just what Carrera makes. Slot.it now makes a chip that can work on D132.

4) I can't answer that with much confidence, but it's not as bad as SSD was originally. I've only raced a full 6 cars on D132 a few times, but did not notice a big issue with power sharing using the stock power supply. Then again, it wasn't an especially serious race, either. That said, there are some things that can be done to provide more power, if you find that the system is inadequate for your needs.
 
#4 ·
I've been researching this and it seems like its doing what I imagined it would when ProX was released 15 years ago. (Lots of very cool 1:24 scale racing on YouTube.) Has it really been 15 years??

Thanks for your advice. I ordered the D124 set.
 
#5 ·
Hi Longbow,

I bought a Carrera D132 set 2 1/2 years ago, I am very happy with the purchase.

Having run analog Scalextric a long time ago and running Carrera digital now, I think the Carrera track system is very good. What size area do you have available to build a layout? I have a moderately small area and so have tried a few different smaller sized layouts. Scaley track is admittedly better for smaller areas but the challenge of building a decent Carrera layout in a smaller area is also a lot of fun.

It is really handy being able to trim the throttle and the braking settings from the CU. As far as the 4 bit throttle resolution, I would call it adequate. I agree with Greg's comments, I would add that I notice the resolution only when running poorly tuned cars that are top heavy or unstable. Once dialled in with decent tyres and a little bit of weight (if running without magnet) then they are more forgiving and it is difficult to notice any throttle speed steps.

It is a lot of fun and simple to operate, go ahead and ask any questions, the manuals are a little clunky but most questions here will be quickly answered if you get stuck on anything.

With regards to the tank like cars with strong magnets and tall gear ratios, some of the Carrera cars do tend to be geared a bit tall, and I dislike the magnets as they just cause too much extra drag, I fairly recently removed both magnets from a Carrera Corvette C.7R, and put some aftermarket rubber tyres on and it runs faster laps than it did with the original tyres and both magnets. Much easier, more predicable and enjoyable to drive, I didn't bother changing the gearing.

Have fun.

Steve.
 
#6 ·
Steve,

I have as much space as I want, as long as its a temporary setup on the carpet. I may build a table for it (or I may attach it to a couple 4x8 boards that I can prop against the wall), but I would have to sacrifice space that I'm using for other things.

I too am a fan of the Carrera track, I had a 90' 4-lane carrera track at one point. I've tried scalextric and ninco track. Imo, the scalextric is a bit too narrow for no-mag racing, and the rough ninco track (which I like) seems better suited to strong mag racing.

I bought the first ProX set when it was released in 2005(?). It was the Winged Warrior set with classic Nascar and high bank turns. It seemed like a good "closed" (toy) system. The cars were indestructible, but at that time there were no aftermarket controllers, and decoder chips weren't available. It was obvious from the way lap counting was done, that the system would never be generally applicable to other brand cars.

Ninco digital showed alot of promise as it had available decoders and did not require any drilling of cars. I was able to modify two of the Pro-X lane changers with dead strips to work with N-digital. Because they have a mechanical return, they worked 100%. Ninco digital also had a problem with unstable voltage like SSD. I figured out how to employ the same strategy of running multiple control units in parallel, except that instead of buying additional control units, I just bought the mosfets from Mouser and wired everything externally. In the end I don't think Ninco was able to get their product into enough hands.

Buying the D124 was an impulse purchase. I didn't know they had a new digital system until a few days ago. There are a ton of D132/124 racing videos on YouTube which show it working at the "club" level. There are decoder chips, that apparently can handle tuning motors. There are a slew of new cars. Aftermarket controllers and decoders. Factory and aftermarket timing solutions. An app connect. And the best track system you can buy.
 
#7 ·
Hi Longbow, welcome back to digital racing.

I had Pro-X stuff and still have quite a bit of cars track and accessories. Carrera had a program where they performed free upgrades from Pro-X to DXXX for a few years so I got a few things upgraded and covet the cars and lane changers that are DXXX and also compatible with Pro-X.

1. The cars are much much better than 15 years ago, like night and day. They aren't the equivalent of cars from some of the specialty manufacturers but they drive really nice. And the thing about digital is there are other cars sharing a lane, whether it's your buddy or a ghost car, so with digital sometime speed kills. The more drivers you have the less pure speed is important.

2. If you're really into pure speed then analog w-might be a better option. The "feel" of driving a slot car is subjective. Like Greg said; some of the high end analog controllers only have 12 steps and guys love the "feel". And you can use the speed setting to adjust how a particular car drives if you want.

3. The decoders can handle up to around 4 amps, but the motor never draws that much amperage so it shouldn't ever be an issue. If a motor goes bad and creates a dead short you could possibly surpass 3 amps, but not with the stock power supply, only when using an aftermarket power supply. The issue will be how many amps you can get to the rails. A stock CU can handle up to 8 amps but I don't suggest going over 6. And never surpass 21 volts or you'll need to replace capacitors in the CU.

4. A regulated power supply will definitely "help" but not sure how you ever drew more than 3-4 amps with only 4 cars on the track. If running 4+ D124 cars you will definitely feel the need for more amps, but I've never had that problem with D132. having said that; the older original Pro-X power supplies suffered from leaky capacitors so they didn't hold an internal charge very well. With those you could easily tap them out and create voltage drop which would cause the BB to shut off momentarily and turn back on. Pretty much any regulated aftermarket power supply will prevent that from happening.

Hope that helps. There are so many fun features to consider I'd hope that it's not all about speed. And when using some of the race management software the racign cna get pretty intense. When I raced with my digital group I literally never felt the need for more speed.
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
Carlos,

Thanks for your very thoughtful response. The D124 set is sitting unopened while I try to figure out where I can put a layout. I decided to go big this time with 1:24 but it makes designing layouts more challenging. I thought I was going to put it on the carpet, but now I'm negotiating for a table.

I've been watching D124 videos online (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzp001EVJKY&ab_channel=talonk24)

and this is how I always imagined digital would be. These videos are what sold me on it. I didn't know I wanted 124 until I saw these videos. I fact, I didn't know I wanted this until a week ago.

I remember 15 years ago it was half baked, now it looks amazing.
 
#11 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm still collecting parts to build my layout, but one of the pleasant surprises is the level of detail of the 1/24 cars! Wow! I have four cars; two 911s and two C7s,

Prior experience with Carrera cars (15 years ago) was that they were "medium" detail and they seemed to be designed with a retro aesthetic; like something that could have been built in the 70s. They looked very plastic with a thick clear coat and cheap trim pieces. The drivers and cockpits were generic with low detail.

One of my misgivings with early Carrera Pro-X was that the cars were not great lookers or drivers. I had a collection of Fly cars, but sadly while they all looked great, they often didn't drive well and they were fragile; a few hundred laps and pieces were falling off.

These new cars are at (or beyond) the "Fly" level of detail. Each car gets details specific to that car. Some are glossy, some are matte. They all have different tires, wheels, and some have different color lights. They aren't just functional, they actually look great.

And they are only $60. That is about the price of a Fly car. I know these are MIC, but a high detail 1/24 digital car for $60 seems like a great value considering a 1/32 analog Fly costs $60 or more, and a basic analog HO car costs $30.

I really wish they made more 1/24 cars. It seems like they make about 20 new models each year and its hard to find models more than 2 years old.

Edit: Forgot to add... The swing arm design is actually a pretty great invention that makes slotting the car effortless. I didn't know why they put that on there and thought it was extra complexity the car didn't need. Actually its a nice innovation.