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Rarity List

15153 Views 92 Replies 23 Participants Last post by  dgersh
Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone knows of a Slot Car Rarity List.

A list containing aspects such as rarity ratings, 1-10 (10 being extremely rare)

Might even contain collectors comments, country of origin, current value etc..

I`m guessing such a list would be massive .... but not impossible.

p.s In some respects, I guess this collectors corner is one big list.. just not quite sorted.

If not... perhaps I shall start such a list.. After all, I do have a life time in front of me to gather the info required
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In my opinion, a "rarity" listing cannot include any factory prototypes or hand-built cars, because these are effectively "one offs" and do not qualify for such a listing since they are "unique", and not really "rare" if someone owns any of them.

A "rarity" listing can only incorporate, genuine PRODUCTION cars available for purchase to the public.

Hence I believe that the term "rare" used for a one-off model is simply silly.

As far as rarities, of course the Scalextric Bug Type 59 is scarce, but if one wants to buy one, he can find one, it is not THAT rare, and enough of them have shown in auctions over the past 10 years alone as to question the "rare" moniker. I personally place them as "scarce".
As an example, the aforementioned Cox Chaparral 2E "mag" INTACT kit is much rarer, even if the built cars are legions.
Rarity also has to go par with "desirability". I personally could not care less if some ugly plastic blob with mickey-mouse motor and chassis produced in the day in the Soviet Empire for consumption by happy little socialist-paradise children is rare or not.

Of all the slot cars produced on the planet in the day and today (not talking about the "serialized, numbered, limited editions" from recent years by dubious manufacturers than ended falling on their face by manipulating their customers a bit too long), and taking in consideration the Scalex Bug, I would say that the "rarest-most-desirable" will be some of the more difficult to obtain and beautiful Japanese, Italian or American kits and RTR's, of which I can give you this brief and certainly not definitive listing, and any of these models MUST of course include their original intact packaging to qualify, as beaters are a dime a dozen out there.
So, in not any particular order, here is sample of what I consider darn tough to obtain at any price, and please note that the first ones MAY have never been issued, and please, don't think about "rare colors" or "rare variation with some cheap bit of plastic added used as clutch" or some other silly implement:

1/ 1/32 Aurora Buick Demolition Demon RTR (if ever sold to the public) None known to exist at this time.
2/ 1/32 Aurora Mercury Demolition Demon RTR (if ever sold to the public) None known to exist at this time.
3/ 1/24 Carrera Ferrari 330P4 (if ever sold to the public) None known to exist at this time.
4/ 1/24 MPC Dodge Ramcharger (if ever sold to the public) None known to exist at this time.
5/ 1/24 Unicar Mercedes-Benz 280SL kit ???
6/ 1/24 Unicar Porsche 906 kit Have car, need kit!
7/ 1/24 International "Furious Fiat" RTR Have ONE car, know of only ONE other MIB.
8/ 1/24 Unique Mako Shark. Only ONE known to exist, MIB.
9/ 1/24 K&B Ford MK2 RTR. Less than 4 MIB known to exist.
10/ 1/24 Classic "Stinger Roadster" kit. Only ONE known to exist MIB!!!
11/ 1/24 Kal-Kar Chaparral 2D. Only TWO known to exist MIB.
12/ 1/24 BZ Chaparral 2E RTR (if issued beyond the 50 or so samples sent all over the planet, ever seen a box?
13/ 1/24 Champion Ford Galaxie kit. Only ONE known to exist MIB.
14/ 1/32 Scalextric Bugatti T59. About two dozens known to exist. I don't mean the "Haviland This" and other replicas, I mean the real thing.
15/ 1/32 Aurora Rover-BRM. Russell Sheldon had one.
16/ 1/24 Unicar Berlina Aerodynamica (ever seen a box?

Etc. I have a listing of over 2500 kits and RTR just from 1957 through 1972, much of it will be in that new book I am finishing now, and thousands of home-racing cars and kits were produced from 1972 to today, of which really NONE can be considered "rare" because all were built for collectors before being built as toys for tots, regardless of their manufacturers main concern and at the very least, HUNDREDS of each are out there. I also must say that any that feature a hand-cast, resin body do not qualify, as I consider them as "one-offs", for any "rarity" listing.
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The Aurora Demolition Demon that sold on eBay was if I recall correctly, just the body of the 1/24 scale static kit. And i think that the LASCM bought it.
The title of the book will be "Electric Dreams" just like the company that finances it. So it will be easy to find. Publishing date in time for Xmas 2011.
Other books are tough to find right now on the subject, as most are sold out, but if you search on Amazon with the "slot" moniker, some will come up.
There are quite a few good vintage books out there such as the Greenslade published in the late 1980's but some are a bit hard to find.
QUOTE there are no mint in box Scalextric Buggati's known to exist so please let us keep a level playing field.
Hi John,
First, I do not dislike Scalextric cars, I like some better than others. Next, if "no mint in box Scalextric Buggati's known to exist", what to do with the one at the LASCM, or the one that was offered to me 3 years ago in the north of France, both mint, unused in their original boxes, with the paperwork?

I also have seen at least two offered a few years back at vectis and Mint & Boxed, with their original boxes. also know of collectors who have the box with theirs.

Here is the one from the LASCM, sorry I do not have the pic of the box that is stored separately if I recall correctly, but this shows the unused car sitting on its paperwork:

Tire Wheel Product Vehicle Toy

Automotive lighting Bumper Gas Electric blue Cylinder

Best regards,



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And this is why I do not push too much on my own listing for tiny variations such as the typical hair pulling done by insane Matchbox collectors about 18 variations of a pink color on one particular and otherwise boring model...
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QUOTE The Race Tuned C95 Bugatti does not have a power sledge motor, it has a normal race tuned 'black' motor and differs form the C70 Bugatti by having a swivel guide (G20) similar to the one fitted in the power sledge cars.
Yep, I was going to say but kept my keyboard shut (it replaced the mouth a few years back...
) as maybe such beast existed and was actually sold to the public...

QUOTE If we are talking rare Scalextric cars then the CK2 Porsche 906 in 'Mint and still sealed' condition must be the rarest, only one knowing to have survived in this condition.!
So what does that make the example at the LASCM?
( and darn, I don't have a picture of it in my files... one more to click next time I get up there!)
See. some things are scarce in certain places, no so in others... for example, we found some Lindberg Porsche 906 kits in Australia and Japan, while virtually none ever surfaced in the USA...

But we can definitely add plenty of cars/kits on the listing and the Scalex CK2 fits the bill.

How about one of these:

Automotive parking light Automotive lighting Vehicle Motor vehicle Toy

Not so easy either, none of my Italian friends could come up with a MIB example while there are quite a few loose cars out there...

Or this:

Motor vehicle Product Automotive lighting Font Car

Big bag of cash for the one who brings me one...


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Rack & pinion, eh?

Sounds to me like they had their act together except for the choice of model since no one wanted it then...

QUOTE Wasn't there someone on eBay a couple years ago selling an IMC Lola? Not in the box of course, but still...
Don, unfortunately, while the the IMC Lola T70 static kit was and is still sometimes available, the slot car kit was more than likely announced but never issued. There is an actual picture of ONE in its box in one of the Xmas slot car mags in 1966, so at least they made the box and prepped the parts, but then... ???
Another mystery that will likely never be resolved. If there had been one on eBay, trust me we would have jumped with both feet on it!

QUOTE PS: Can I have the Unicar?
Belongs to the LASCM, and once there, only a direct frontal assault by a SWAT team might get it...

But loose cars do come up time to time... Ezio Scisco had about 6 or 7 of them beautifully built in his collection... I took pictures of all of them, they are on file. But no boxed kit.
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You might have a point about the MotoGP stuff as it was a huge sales failure, an almost certain guaranty odf later success, as with the Bugatti and Scakex 1/24 scale venture...

QUOTE Be interesting to see if it is MIB Philippe, but I saw Scott by one of these on eBay a few years ago that was described as MIB but it wasn't! Scott paid quite a lot for it but it had been opened, not sure he realized this though.
The LASCM had 3 of them, two were mediocre and were later sold.
The one we retained is perfect and came from my own collection, acquired before 1990.

Don points out the more "iconic" models, one for the Euro markets, one for the US and Japanese market. And with the general knowledge as it is, he is 100% correct.
Thing is, and this will soon change, these two are far from being the rarest and/or more desirable until one knows about the "better ones", of which few even know the existence. An "ultimate rarity" listing is of course subjective, but I can think of a lot more desirable models than these two.
Personal opinion of course...

As far as Bernard's museum rarities, what he collects is so odd that it revives the point I made earlier, that of mixed rarity/desirability factor.
Bernard's collection is unique and extensive, but does not do much for me other than as a document of what was produced on weird corners of Planet Earth.
Bernard's love is not mine, but his passion is intense, we just have vastly different interests, which makes his museum very special indeed.
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I will try my best to remember taking pictures of it next time I go to Los Angeles.
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I understand your concern and at this time, we simply do not know. I placed them there on top of a listing I compounded in a few minutes, because prior discoveries have often proven me wrong when I assumed that something shown in period catalogs, and that no one had ever seen, suddenly showed up on the marketplace.
This is the case for the ultra-rare Pactra Meyers Manx Dune Buggy, of which a SINGLE example showed up in about 1999, and I assumed that it was a factory one-off until several identical chassis showed up, then another complete car.
Also in my first book written in 1996, I assume (or affirm?) that the announced Lindberg Porsche 906 was never produced, but we got since two mint kits from Australia and a couple of assembled cars have eventually surfaced in the USA...
We also recently found a body of one of the Aurora demolition cars in the 1/24 scale (as they supposedly produced them in both 1/24 and 1/32 scale), so at this time, I am not saying one way or the other!

However, I get what you are saying and one is of course, free to dismiss those from a serious list.
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QUOTE Much rarer are "Released but not Announced", now, how about a list of those?
Good point... just wait for the book for that one!

A sample:

-Aztec 1/24 scale Chaparral 2D RTR...

QUOTE How does a seasoned collector react to a car gaining prestige from sponsors at a race event simply by slapping a few stickers on a case & claiming the car as Limited Edition.
Seasoned collectors are discriminating fellows who stay away from any "limited editions" as a complete fraud perpetrated upon them and less discriminating collectors.
In other words, "thanks but no thanks".
This is pretty much what customers told to that former Spanish company that based its business on "limited" rehash of their molds issued in elaborate boxes and sold at highly inflated prices to formerly eager customers. Even the most foolish eventually realized that there is no end to this game, until the customer himself decides that enough is enough.
What will happen to those thousands and thousands of "rare collectibles"? Not much, and if anyone hopes of cashing in by sitting on some, good luck to them, but dumping them now at a loss might be their best hope, because in 20 years from now, the currencies will have lost so much value that the losses will amount to a lot more.
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That's only because the well-known seller had not a clue of what he was selling...
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A lucky day beats a bad one anytime! That guy knows not much really, accumulated a huge amount of Atlas stuff and then attempted to sell the collection at simply ludicrous price.
And yes, I keep repeating that rarity and desirability are two different things, and that both combined make for hefty prices...
The fun of collecting is of course to find rare and desirable items for dirt-cheap, like this set I just got: CLICK HERE. Not slot, but just as dear to my heart. The only other such set I have ever seen in my life sold 3 years ago on e-Pay for 5000 bucks. I paid less than 1/10th of that...
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QUOTE It is interesting, for example see what Roger Gillham thinks, or what Phillippe thinks about his own tastes, but I mean that it do not have to follow.
Hi Jose,
I think that a listing is possible indeed. Problem is that Europe is very insular, especially the UK (after all it IS an island...
) and in UK, most collectors know only of... Scalextric or only care for Scalextric items, a minority bein aware of or interested by "other" brands.
I bet you that if you ask Roger Gilliam about the Pactra brand, he will tell you that they make paint.
The difference with the smaller number of American and to an extent, Japanese and Australian collectors, is that they are interested in the whole lot, a perfect example being... Bernard Sampson.
Or me.

But as I repeated, I am (personally) LESS interested in Scalextric or other Euro brands because first, there are already plenty of documentation about them, second, they are addressing a TOY market, while I am more interested in the HOBBY side of it, and last, there is little documentation other than period publications about American, Japanese, German or Italian brands inspired by the American production of the Classic Era.
If you look at my 5-minute attempt to a listing in the opening posts, it DOES have Scalextric items. A Gilliam listing would have little else other than Scalextric items.
Point made that a good listing is possible, if the factor "Rarity" IS followed by the factor "Desirability"?
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QUOTE I saw an Eldon Lotus 19 here at Retromobile this year,

Now that's really rare. may I have it please?

Don, I am SURE that you meant "23", right?
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QUOTE I know the only legal license that has Estrela, because later made copies of many world records in both HO, 1:32 and 1:24, although a few models at first seem original or at least must come from other toys I unknown. Their catalog is as striking as irregular.
Actually, Estrela negotiated licenses with all the companies from which they copied the products: Cox, Gilbert, Strombecker, Gar-Vic, Monogram, even Mabuchi as they made copies of their motors directly in Brazil.
The reason of course was simple: enormous import duties forced local manufacturing due to a protectionist policy that still stands today, albeit in a much more relaxed fashion.
In the 1970's, Estrela also purchased the tooling for the Monogram slot car track.
This information was obtained from Luiz Valdetaro.
QUOTE Sorry, but Luiz Valdetaro is totally wrong on this, my information came from Mr. Mario Adler, the Estrela owner on that time and from Evaldo P. de Almeida,
The "Aurorama" division manager for about 30 years.
Jose, I am not sure if Luiz was right or wrong but as former manager or R&D for Cox Hobbies, I recall having seen some correspondence between Leroy Cox and the Estrela company that dated from 1966 at the time of a big clean-up of R&D artifacts in 1977. If Estrela did not have a license, why in the world would they correspond with the president of a company of which they were going to copy the product?

Also I have a copy of an Estrela catalog page from 1966 that shows the various products under their names...
# 95901 Chaparral ( Cox injected body)
# 95803 Ferrari 330P2 (Russkit vac body)
# 95801 Cooper F1 (Russkit vac body)
# 95802 Ford GT (Pactra vac body)
# 95804 Firebird (Gar-Vic vac body)
These are described in Portuguese as RTR models with metal chassis (that appears to be the same for all the models).

In the same page, one can see 3 HO cars, one of them the Aurora T-Jet Ford "J" car.

While the vac bodies could have been copied from original, the Chaparral shown is certainly a Cox product or one made in tooling from Cox, no doubt about that.
So I am pretty convinced that there was some kind of licensing going on... as far as what a former executive had to say, let me tell you that when I interviewed several former presidents of slot car companies (Bill Selzer of Cox and Jim Russell of Russkit as examples), they denied that they made certain products in their lines, that I had to physically retrieve from collections, and were dumbfounded when they saw those 'non existing" products in perfect condition inside their original boxes, so I would not pay too much credence to what they have to say other than generalities. One forgets lots when getting older...
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QUOTE Just wondering about such fine looking kits.. looks nearly brand spanking new. I'm fairly certain this is not a copied box but I did notice on the Electric Dreams site they sell re-printed boxes.
you do not have to worry much about that. A few choice boxes were reproduced between 1994 and 1998, and none has been made ever since. These boxes were made to display rare models of RTR cars for collectors who did not have any hope of finding the real thing and all are clearly stamped inside with the Electric Dreams identification.
No "kit" boxes were ever made, no need of that.

Don is correct about the Strombecker kits: a large number of the unsold 1966 kits leftover at Vuillerme, the French distributor, were "rediscovered" in someone's warehouse about what, 4-5 years ago and were sold over the Internet ever since. There were some good picks in there, some selling as low as E40.00 in mint and boxed condition, in kit or RTR form, in both scales.
The prices have now gone back to what they were.
Beware because many of the kits offered by some sellers have mildew damage on the box bottoms...
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