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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Replacement motor prices are interesting!
I've just been doing a spot of casual checking.
I just listed the prices from one of the most well known suppliers in the UK, without bargain hunting, and didn't go looking for anything exotic at all. So these don't purport to be anything but a typical cross section of the 'normal' market.
Carrera ----- n/a
Spirit -------- n/a
Pink Kar ---- £4
Ozrace ----- £4.50-£9.00
MRRC ------- £4.75
Scalextric -- £5.00
Scale Auto - £6-£10
Proslot ----- £6.00-£11.00
SCX --------- £7.50-£8.50
Ninco ------- £7.50-£10.50
VMG -------- £8.50 w pinion
Cartrix ----- £8-£13
Fly ----------- £8.50-£13.50 (truck)
Slot-it ------- £10

Spirit and Carrera motors were not listed (n/a)
Hard to make fair comparisons where some include gears and/or wires, but those cost very little extra.
Also hard to draw meaningful conclusions although it does look as though almost any other motor costs significantly more than a standard Mabachi S and that some of those Mabuchis Ss cost a lot more than others!

Quite a spread and perhaps worth some careful thinking when doing a motor swap.
 

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Jim Moyes
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Just as a point of interest, my local supplier has an Expo rack in his shop. The hobby supplies people. £3 buys you a little plastic pack containing 5 mabuchi cans, admittedly low voltage, but does that have much to do with manufacturing cost? And he is making a profit and Expo are too, so how much do these things really cost?

Mr.M
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The venerable Messrs Pdl, Prof Fate, BWA, Larries et al
always reckoned "less than one buck " - even half decent ones.
Now we can truly believe them!

I've never seen them retail as low as those 5 for 3 quid - you are going to give them a whirl, I hope!
 

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Jim Moyes
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They are only rated 3v, Tropi! I feel they will "go" incredibly quickly, in more ways than one


There's a thought! If I fit one of these in a car and run it on my mate's new track with the voltage turned right down, what sort of performance should I expect?

Mr.M
 

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Beppe Giannini
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The 3 V ones are really at the bottom of the heap, with copper strip brushes and no endbell bearing - in China they sell for 0.20 $/ea. in bulk. So, the first reaction is to yell rip off !

Decent motors cost more, but minimum quantity is at least 1,000 - and then you must factor in at least one trip .... given present volumes for slot racing, that's where the real cost is

Beppe
 

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Tropi,
Those prices do look typical for the U.K. I've pretty much migrated most of my racing cars to one of 3 types of motor. The MRRC ScaleAuto SC07 twin shaft FC can with improved comm, TSRF/Falcon FKcan, and Patto's Lil' Ripper FKcan out of Aussieland.
I don't think there are many reasons to buy factory labelled replacements at premium prices when performance upgrades are available for similar or cheaper prices. If you need to support UK based dealers then the First 2 motors I mention would be the way to go.

The Cheapo motors that are available for < 1Euro fall into a couple categories.
1. FA cans of various winds which don't have carbon brushes or end bell metal bearing. These are useable but will not last very long because of the lack of carbon brushes.
2. FC cans of various winds usually can drive. These are very usable and make decent replacements in some cases. Note: you have to make sure that the wind will handle slot racing voltages.
3. FK-130 (Falcon type) and 180 (NC2 type) type motors of various winds. These are usually available in bulk and again are useable if the wind can handle the voltage.

Unfortunately, many of these motors come wound for battery toy operation (3vdc).
This is okay if the operating rpms at that voltage are fairly low but otherwise they usually burn up fairly quickly. The ones that usually can be adapted to slot car use are manufactured for electric mirrors headlights etc on real cars and are designed for 12vdc operation for longer lengths of time. If the motors are Mabuchi mfgred you can take the code and figure out what the specs are; on other mfgred types it's usually destructive testing that gives the answer of whether they are useable or not. Rocky (Fate) or one of the other guys may have a better take on what's what on these motor types. Rocky had some resistance figures that you could use as a guideline to check armature types. These numbers might help you in determining if a given armature in a motor was close to something we use in our cars. (I have the info somewhere but can't find it just now)

Jimmy
 

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With power measured in watts I would take a very rough guess that the little '3 volt' fellows are designed to run off a pair of AA batteries and develop something like 3 volts X 0.25 amps = 0.75 watts or even less. They would probably experience quite a short, though hot and vibrant, life with the voltage quad, quin or sex tupled!
 

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Brian Ferguson
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Big time! You'll get wild revs out of it....briefly....followed by any or all of: wild smoke show, disintegrating commutator, winds thrown off the arm. It will be impressive though!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Cripes! Now nothing will stop Inte from trying this!
Inte, please make sure you have the camera fully charged and ready when you do!
 

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QUOTE Inte, please make sure you have the camera fully charged and ready when you do!

thought Trop was going to warn me then!

I'm gonna get a cheapo one from maplins soon, charge up my camera, and set it on video mode.. heh heh heh! vrip vrip vrrriiiipp weeee eeeeiiiiiiiii waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip BANG! remember the insanity test? listen to that, it will probably sound similar!

I would do it on the KL bench, but can only 15v outa mine so it's goin on the club track where we have 17v..

Rob.
 

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Brian Ferguson
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QUOTE any or all of: wild smoke show, disintegrating commutator, winds thrown off the arm.

Forgot to also mention: melted motor brush arms and endbell...

...no, don't ask why I forecast these results....
 

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I like Russell Sheldon's take on these little motors. According to another discussion on the forum, he puts a proper endbell on and makes a nice compact motor for F1s and so forth out of them. Anyone else tried this out? I havn't got hold of any myself- I guess I'm looking in the wrong place. Suggestions for that too, anyone?

Thanks.
 

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Brian Ferguson
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I'm not familiar with Russell's experiments, but I have played around a little with various motors. See above.
One thing to remember is that the size of the motor has nothing to do with its intended operating voltage. My son has some motors that are larger than the old 36Ds but are rated at a mere 3V! On the other hand, a Tomy HO Turbo can motor will run at 22V, and is less than 1/5 the size. I'm building a 1/43 Jag XJR-9 using one of these for power - if it moves a full-mag HO car at rocket speed, I think it should be adequate - possibly even for a non-mag 1/32 Formula car! All of the motor manufacturers produce, or have produced, an almost unlimited number of motor varieties over the years. There are so many variables that even armature resistance is not a valid indicator of the voltage that a given motor will take - winding gauge, armature core construction, magnet material and strength, commutator advance, motor brush composition/style, etc. all come into play.

The only thing you can do is... experiment! There you go Inte... I gave you an excuse for your "testing"!
 

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IMHO a 3volt motor means... well not much at all - comes back to Tropi's musings about standards I guess.

It's a useful guideline maybe.

Back in the sixties rewound "low volt" motors were


For example

"THE DYNA 99 - 2 Volt 4/10 OHM"

or

"THE SUPER DYNA 1.3 ENDURO - 1.3 Volt 3/10 OHM"

"THE FASTEST, COOLEST, LONGEST LASTING MOTOR EVER MADE"

So the ads said anyway. Anyone recall these beasties?
 

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Brian Ferguson
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John, basically you're right. A "rating" means little. When we see "voltage" ratings but don't know the construction details or intended usage, or see "RPM" ratings but don't know the voltage used, it is all pretty meaningless. As I said in the "standards" discussion, this is one of the areas where I really agree with Tropi that some level of standardization would be nice.

Some of the so-called low-voltage motors will happily function at much higher voltage levels. Some, as I alluded too
won't. Okay... okay... I have "exploded" more than one...


My only real point was that you DON'T know what many of these motors are capable of, but the odds are that a "simple", "cheap" motor, with a low voltage rating, especially those without a proper endbell or brushes are gonna go POOF in a big way on typical slot track voltages.

My personal peeve about current slot car motors is that they aren't "friendly" like the venerable 16D - easy to tear down, rebuild, and reassemble. I'm not a fan of throw-away motors.

PS - Anyone remember the Versatech Globe Screamer SS101? (Possibly Canada only? It was made only a few miles from me. The "Screamer" name was added to the full name only for the slot car market! It was actually a military/medical spec unit.) 100,000 RPM no load on 12 volts....
It was rated at 6 volts but I never saw one destruct - eventually outlawed in my local area because of its rather high cost... something like $20 CDN back in the sixties!
 

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One way to play around is to change out the lousy endbell and brush system on most of these motors. But then you need to be selective about the arm you intend to use. Most of these motors have the flap style commutator and these are near worthless by them selves also. The Slot-It arms from 25k to 29K have a green molded commutator that is worth while polishing up or even turning true if needed. The stock arms are fine as wound but they are worth while to rewind if you have a mind to.


Some use the SCX endbells and brush systems and fit then to the cans instead. The problem with the Cheetah/Falcon TSRF. Ripper motors is the can it to long and needs to be shortned up a bit to get the new end bell far enough into the can, for good brush alignment.

I prefer the Mura end bell and either either a shortened S can or the Stock Slot-It can and endbell. I have a fixture made up to turn the endbell diameter down to fit the inside of the s cans etc., takes about 10 minutes to do. The larger brushes used are replaceable, carry more current and allow tuning with spring/brush pressures. The arm can be polished or turned so you can get quite a bit of use out of it. I have some that have been in 3 different cars and many races on them instead of throwing them away and hoping to get another good one. Relatively cheap to do and the performance is very good.


Some typical slot car motors to show differences in the good and bad commutators



A shot of the arms and cheapo endbells. Note the small double wear rings on the arm commutators. This is all the contact area the cheapie motors come with and why a break in does help to get the full face of the brushes to seat on the comm surface. Too much break in and the tiny carbon brush goes away, as they do
anyway after awhile and you throw the motor away. Also note the timing difference in the Cheetah/Falcon type can motors and the others. About 90 degrees off from each other. So you have to watch timing when switching arms from motor to motor. The stock Cheetah arms have to be retimed to work in a slot-it can with the Mura endbell. So another reason why to not use them.



Stock Slot-It can with Mura endbell installed with no changes other than centering the magnets in the can to the arm stack center, to reduce offset drag of magnets to arm and raising rpm a bit more. Then drilling holes for the endbell to can mounting screws



What I come up with, are my upgraded slot motors with stock shortened cans, stock magnets, stock arms and a turned to fit Mura endbell and brush hadware. Cost? some of my time and a $8.00 endbell and $1.50 worth of brushes and springs. The Comm cooler is not necessary normally. In this application to a high magnet car it helps cool things down a bit.
 

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"PS - Anyone remember the Versatech Globe Screamer SS101? (Possibly Canada only? It was made only a few miles from me. The "Screamer" name was added to the full name only for the slot car market! It was actually a military/medical spec unit.) 100,000 RPM no load on 12 volts...."

It was actually "Versitec" and they revved at 50000 RPM on 12-V and drawing 1.2-Amp current on no-load, not 100 grand... Things appear to be a lot larger when you are a kid!

These were quite good motors and would absolutely destroy performance-wise, ANY currently available "home-racing" motors, modified V12's and all. And I am still trying to get one in a car that would actually handle it... The Cox chassis, even highly modified, just will not cut it.





Installation is problematic and I had to fit a modified Mabuchi brass bearing and a cut-down MURA "B" end bell to make it to fit the chassis...




Mr. Pea
 

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Brian Ferguson
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OK, perfect! I caught PdL's attention with my inaccuracy!


Phillippe: The SS101s we had were not shaped like that! They were almost round, with a much smaller flat-spot on the top and bottom. Do you know what THEY were? I doubt anyone ELSE will!


I drove for a guy that built all his cars with these for about 6 months until they got banned. Awesome motors that even the hottest Muras were not capable of beating at the time.
 

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Brian Ferguson
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QUOTE What I come up with, are my upgraded slot motors with stock shortened cans, stock magnets, stock arms and a turned to fit Mura endbell and brush hadware

Larry, this gives me more hope, and inspiration, for playing with these motors! I've previously viewed them as disposable but apparently that's not the case with a bit of effort. Thanks!
 
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