[demontweeks]

I just thought I would raise the issue of the recent rule changes especially the issue of alloy wheels. Please see below:-

1 One of my slot cars which was previously unable to race in the non modified class because it had alloy wheels presumably can now do so?

2 The border that now seperates Ninco pro class from 'non modified' is now much more blurred.

3 To change rules mid year can cause lots of problems/difficulties (recent change to F1 diffuser/exhaust use) and can only increase costs for members. There should be set times in a year when rules are modified to save costs for members.

4 I think that new members are going to be disadvantaged by this change of ruling. Wheel sizes/tyre sizes/standard rim size/gluing and truing etc etc I think that a further gulf will open between the haves and have nots (experience - non experience).

5 Solid front axle rule change, for goodness sake - if it doesn't work as standard don't buy that model. Should we really change a rule because one member has a slot car which doesn't conform to the standard - this really is the thin end of the wedge.

Demontweeks

 

[andi4x4]

QUOTE (demontweeks @ 16 Jul 2011, 16:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I just thought I would raise the issue of the recent rule changes especially the issue of alloy wheels.

There are two main reasons for the rule change :-

1) To stop people spending 35-40 quid a time on cars only to find they are not upto the job simply due to poor manufacturing tolerances, and then going out and buying another car to try, and so on, and so on. Most cars can be made competetive with a decent axle, wheels and bearings and a suitable guide. My Scaley Williams has been transformed by fitting a Slot-it axle, PLASTIC Fly bearings ( not metal as the rules allow ! ) metal wheels and Slot-it F15's and as such has saved me the cost of buying another car to try, which may be just as pants, resulting in buying a third car, etc.

2) to help people maintain cars for which spare parts are , at best, difficult to get, or just don't seem to exist !

Some cars just will not be improved, I will admit. My Slot-it Porsche seems to be one - it now stands me over £100 and is still way off the pace of the moslers - sometimes the only way to keep up is to run what everyone else is running, but, not everyone wants to do that - some variety on track is nice !

As for the divide between the faster and slower members, I feel that we should all be imparting our knowledge onto those who perhaps dont have it, if they want it of course ! Some of us are never going to finish in the top three, no matter how good our cars may be - personally - I would just be happy to finish above sixth once in a while !

 

[demontweeks]

Well there you have it - you could spend and spend but there comes a point where you have to give up. Surely a new member would look at runs well and purchase accordingly using Ebay if appropriate,

I had forgotten how much I had enjoyed slot racing but if you take the competetive thread out we might just be running train sets - incidentally there is nothing wrong with train modelling it's just different. I cannot imagine anyone wanting to purchase something which is non competetive - there is something special about how the Alfa runs in saloon but I cannot make one work no matter how hard I try hence the BMW, but can I catch Steve?

Rule changes need to be thought through and should not happen willy nilly during the 'race year'. I am more than willing to help newbies (and do) but what should I do now - remove all plastic hubs to run alloy wheels in order to stay competetive or grin and bear it. Hmmmmm Well changes are changes so I can now dust off the Renault and prepare it for rally use........ Yipee

 

[knealer]

There is a reason you cant make an Alfa run. You don't have an evo3 motor onboard you are running an eve 2 like me. I've altered my gear ratio to 35z back gear rather than a 38z but can't accelerate like an evo3 despite improving my top end.

 

[demontweeks]

Are wew allowed to change to an Evo 3 ? - the last two I have bought had Evo 2's hmmm think I will ask for a rule change to ban Evo 3 motors - shold make saloons more interesting.

 

[andi4x4]

I think both my Alfa and my Porsche have the evo2 motors in - I was going to change the wheels and axles on them both - but - it aint gonna make no difference againt the evo3 ! I only change the back end on the Williams because it had so much slop out of the box that it was never going run until I did ! I was going to get the Mansel version when it comes out, but, wont bother now

 

[demontweeks]

You see how a little info can broaden your horizon and save aggravation and cash.

Try this one, I found this in the rules update of the 17th of February.

Tyres may be treated, but must not leave any residue on the tracks and will be subject to a paper test prior to the start of the event - no treatments may be applied between stages/runs'.

Hmmmm - What do you think?

 

[andi4x4]

I think you would have to bat that one over to the scrutineers. I certainly dont apply anything between runs, but, I have not done a paper test prior to putting the car on the track. So far, people have been given the benefit of the doubt as to whether they have read and understood the rules or not, but, at the end of the day, it is up to the scrutineers to be checking these things. I think the general rule of thumb is that things will on be checked when someone calls them into question.

Judging by the way that rule is written, I am guessing it has been plucked from the GB Slot Rally regs.

 

[911TT]

Welcome to the forum Demontweeks.
As a member of the clubs committee maybe I can answer some of your questions. Firstly let me just explain that the committee and Scrutineers all have different views on how the rules should look. What we did though was try to adjust them to help reduce costs for members. How many times have you bought a car which you are then dissapointed with. I know many people get cars with wonky wheels etc.
With these rules you hopefully won't have to discard that car to the attic or fleabay.

Anyway here are some answers/comments to your questions/statements:

QUOTE 1 One of my slot cars which was previously unable to race in the non modified class because it had alloy wheels presumably can now do so?
As long as it is not in the list of disallowed manufacture types in rule 8 of the limited Mod rules in issue 4 of the rules then the answer is yes.

QUOTE 2 The border that now seperates Ninco pro class from 'non modified' is now much more blurred
Not really - See rule 8 again

QUOTE 3 To change rules mid year can cause lots of problems/difficulties (recent change to F1 diffuser/exhaust use) and can only increase costs for members. There should be set times in a year when rules are modified to save costs for members.
I agree, but as the club is very new, we said we would start with the original rules and tweek them when we saw problems in the first year. A number of people mentioned very similar problems, so we felt that they should be addressed sooner rather than later. As mentioned, these are to try and save members money. If your wheels are round then you don't need to change them.

QUOTE 4 I think that new members are going to be disadvantaged by this change of ruling. Wheel sizes/tyre sizes/standard rim size/gluing and truing etc etc I think that a further gulf will open between the haves and have nots (experience - non experience).
Interesting, I feel that there are at least 5 'experienced' members who are actively helping newer members and everyone has been told that they just need to ask. Dave has stocks of tyres, wheels etc. and will always help in the selection of the correct size. Dave brings his tyre truer every week, which he kindly makes available to all. I also bring a more primative form of tyre truing every week; power supply and sandpaper.

QUOTE 5 Solid front axle rule change, for goodness sake - if it doesn't work as standard don't buy that model. Should we really change a rule because one member has a slot car which doesn't conform to the standard - this really is the thin end of the wedge.
When you buy a new car, often via the internet, you often don't know what type of front axle configuration it will have, so how do people know not to buy the car? It hasn't been introduced because of one members car.

QUOTE Hmmmmm Well changes are changes so I can now dust off the Renault and prepare it for rally use........ Yipee
Remember that the rally classes come under the SlotRally rules rather than the Limited Mod rules.

QUOTE Try this one, I found this in the rules update of the 17th of February.
Tyres may be treated, but must not leave any residue on the tracks and will be subject to a paper test prior to the start of the event - no treatments may be applied between stages/runs'.
Hmmmm - What do you think?
This one I have to take personally as I put a bit of 3 in 1 on my tyres in between heats in a couple of classes where I am still using the cars original tyres. After a heat they lose their grip. I have the document you are referring to and I cannot find the "no treatments may be applied between stages/runs" bit you refer to. I have copies of the rules prior to and after this document and can't find it in those either. If you have a problem with me then please discuss it personally.

I must also say that my race Alfa (bought new) doesn't have an evo3 motor so I am successfully running what I assume is an Evo2 motor in this class. I do have another Alfa with an evo3 that I recently purchased from fleabay and I know that when the Mike's bought their cars one came with an evo 2 and the other with evo3.

The rule changes were discussed at great length by the committee and scrutineers before being issued so I'm sorry if they upset you or any other member. Please feel free to discuss any problems you have with us in person.
Regards
Steve

 

[knealer]

I too put a bit of 3 in 1 on between most of my heats even on brand new tyres, the rule about applying it between runs is slot rally gb rules so I would assume this only covers the rally classes.

On the whole I think the rule changes are good and can see the potential to improve a number of my cars in the future. Perhaps we could hold a tune up session to help people that aren't into tuning get a handle on things or alternatively
There is a huge section on here that we could refer too or perhaps produce a hint sheet to hand out to all members.

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38317

 

[andi4x4]

On the wheels/tyres issue, there is a document somewhere that lists all the different wheels, their sizings and the appropriate tyres from various manufacturers. I will see if I can dig it out.

 

[Slotcarmann]

Evening all

Just spotted this thread, so I thought I would add my contribution as Chairman, for the benefit of all club members, especially those not on the Committee.

As a recap, the objective that we had when we started up the club was to provide cost-effective, fun racing in 1/32 scale, for as wide a spectrum of slot enthusiasts as we could, with a variety or RTR, modified and scratch-built classes. That remains the objective.

We all (at least those of us who were members at the time) discussed and agreed a basic set of rules and classes, which we introduced in Feb/March. It was very much a first attempt and we expected there would be areas that might be improved.

For the sake of ease and consistency with UK standards, in the event that people wished to race in the UK as well, we adopted the GB Slot Rally Rules for our rally classes and the CSCRA (Classic Slot Car Racing Association) Rules for scratch-built events. These are produced by experienced slotters and used in practice - but subject to review from time to time. In fact, the GB Slot Rally Rules were amended after the Manx Rally, as the series organisers found that one particular car was entered in the wrong class, or rather that a Pro-Race variant of it had not been put specifically into the Pro-Stock class. The other rules we adapted from various sources, simplified as far as we were able, to make them easy to understand and administer.

At that time we also had the election of a Committee and it was agreed that we, as a Committee, would listen to and take on board any feedback from members about difficulties with the initial rules or suggested improvements. We undertook to review our rules and classes at the end of June and make any adjustments at that point for the next 6 months up to the end of 2011.

At the Committee meeting on 30th June, as promised, we considered the rules and potential revisions and as a Committee, we made certain changes which we all felt would assist most members with maintaining their cars and keeping some competitive, without a huge extra outlay.

Once we were all happy with the revisions, the new rules were circulated to all club members by Steve Morrow, who is our Club Secretary. These will apply for the rest of 2011 season and we will sit down again before the 2012 season, hold an AGM open to all members and look at Rules, finances and any other relevant business with you all.

In the meantime, as Steve has already said, if anyone has any queries, questions about a car's eligibility, comments or suggestions, all Committee members are quite happy to listen and discuss them with any other Club member.

I appreciate that in a few pages of rules we cannot cover all eventualities, but we will try to ensure that any gaps are filled by applying the spirit of the rules and common sense.

Now I will deal with a couple of specific points and I will deal first with the issue of tyre treatments.

Our Rules for all racing car classes allow treatment of tyres by 3 in 1 oil and/or lighter fluid. Either or both is/are normally applied only to the rear tyres if it is a 2 wheel drive car., or to all 4 wheels if they are driven. No other tyre fluids or additives are allowed. This is so that all cars have consistency of grip and that the standard fluids are readily and cheaply available to all members in shops on the Island. You are also allowed to rub the tyres on gaffer tape to clean them, although this is not specifically mentioned in the rules. Identical rules are often applied to UK race meetings.

There is no rule for our racing car classes which prevents tyre treatment between heats or races, either with oil, lighter fluid or gaffer tape. Several club members have done this in the past, me included, but usually if I have a break after say one heat, before my other 3 heats come up at the end of the class.

However, common sense needs to be applied to all this, so that we do not spend too much time between heats playing with the tyres and delaying racing! Quite often at UK meetings you can give the tyres a quick scrub with gaffer tape, but have no time to treat them.

What is not permitted is for cars to be placed on the track whilst tyres are still wet. This can leave a residue on the track which may affect the next man on your lane, especially if he does not have treated tyres. There are tell-tale tyre-spin marks on our track where such tyres have been placed. To prevent this happening, simply roll the tyres over a piece of tissue....that's what I do. UK clubs are very hot on this and will insist that tyres are dry when placed on the grid. Our rules mirror this and I have already pointed out wet tyre marks on a previous race-night, during racing. I will be checking on this.

GB Slot Rally Rules do not permit liquid tyre treatment between stages, but you are allowed to use gaffer tape to clean muck off them. However, if a rally car is not running under GB Slot Rally rules, ie in another class, then tyre treatment is not prohibited between heats/races.

Other "tuning" tricks are normally allowed in the UK, but not mentioned in our rules, like the use of braid conditioner to improve conductivity of the braids. Small bottles of this are available from UK slot spares suppliers, of various brands, and I have used some occasionally. I have no objection to this, but cleaning muck off the braids will help a lot too, possibly more!

Using clear nail varnish on the front tyres of a rear-wheel drive car is usually permitted in the UK. I have done this myself and personally have no objection to it, but it is not covered by our rules. This helps reduce the friction between front tyres and track and theoretically reduces resistance so making it faster or keeping its speed longer. On the other hand, ensuring you have oiled the bearings carrying your axles also helps a lot, probably more! Not allowed on the front wheels of a 4 wheel drive car, however....!

But again with these two latter tips, tyres and braids should be dry when placed on the track - and these two tips I do not think should apply to any RTR classes, which are essentially in "out of the box" condition.

One general point about the racing, if it weren't for the marshals, we wouldn't be able to race and we appreciate the job they do. If it weren't for the drivers crashing, it would make the marshals job easier, of course! But just a reminder to all, that where possible after a multiple car crash, the car which causes another car to crash should be replaced on the track last, and the other cars replaced in the order they were knocked off. I know it is difficult in the heat of a race to get it right all the time - I don't always manage it myself - but please bear this in mind, as it is frustrating if you are not the offending party and are replaced as last car!

Finally, as I've often said, I'm happy to speak to anyone about club or other slot car matters at any time - except when I am at work between 0800 and about 1400.

Lets keep it fun!

Cheers
Dave