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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We read often of meetings where vac-formed bodies are expressly banned.
I'm wondering why?
After all, many are really rather good, (refer to Howmet TX's threads).

I don't see the problem in using, say, 30 thou. white styrene vac-forms for a basis of a nice scratchbuild. Or even a clear one. If the models were pulled into a female mould, the detail would be excellent.
There is no "no precedence" argument, because my VIP Club Special chassis went under an MRRC Corvette Stingray clear vac-formed body in 1964!

As for arguments about weight...a vac form isn't as light as a balsa body and that's allowed.

If it's a vintage thing..there were no resin bodies in the old days. Only fibreglass.

I think it's time for a rethink on this matter.
As long as a vac-formed body is detailed and dimensionally accurate, where's the objection?
ClubSpecial
 

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here here!

if done carefully vac forms can produce beautiful and accurate bodies. (again - refer howmets threads)

and as for the mrrc vette - it bloody well certainly outweighed most typ. plastic bodies!! the one i just redid was ridiculously thick and hard.

i also agree - i have been wanting to do some styrene pulls from a female mould and will give it a go in the hopefully not too distant future on some balsa masters that i am just beginning.

not to mention the cost vs resin - which will allow i hope for many who can't afford resin customs to have fun with some less readily available body types too.

regards, Ron
 

· Graham Windle
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I think the bigest objection is the weight advantage with the vacform plus the fact that many of the events stem from clubs who have a back ground of hard body racing .Personaly Id love to be able to race vac forms as they can be made to look good
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Then let's push for the re-instatement of vac-forms, PROVIDED they are to scale and accurate.
Like I said, a balsa body can be even lighter and they're generally allowed.

A weight penalty can always be carried, but most people use weights, I understand, so what better than use weights in a more scientific way under a near weightless shell?

My patterns can be used for resin OR vac-form, so I don't have a vested interest, except a vac-form would be a lot cheaper to make with resin and rubber prices sky high.
They're also much more durable than resin.

So far, no one against the principle. Can democracy rule??
C/S
 

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Club,

This is an argument I've had with many organizers - and yes, I'm for the vac-formed bodies!

I think it's because of the association of vac-formed bodies with "speed crazed morons": many people hear vac-form and immediately think of BSCRA and worse semi-scale cars, without considering that a nice vac-form doesn't have to go down that road. The super-light and handling bodies can be banned, without banning vac-forms in general: the light ones do have an advantage in weight and vibration damping I'd guess, but not the heavier types (especially not in relation to current resin bodies).

For what it's worth, we do allow vac-formed bodies at the Bordeaux vintage meeting, and some of them have finished very well in the Concours voting (although I think a hard body usually wins). We tried using the Turin system originally, in which the vac-formed bodies get a small penalty, but soon saw that there was no material difference in this kind of car (vintage hardware).

Don
 

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Sure, there are some fantastic, incredibly detailed Vac-formed bodies. Take a look at some of the masterpieces done for the World Can-Am proxy in 05. The 956 on this thread looks great.

The problem lies in the slippery slope. There are great 1/32 scale bodies and then there are "scale" bodies like the ones use for Eurosport, then the next step is to wing cars.

You can ban some bodies and allow others but every body is an interpretation of a 1:1 car. Who wants the job of determining what looks close enough to the real thing? If you start getting picky about that your going to have a hard time justifying the scale integrity of some hard-body cars.

Chassis ballast can't compare to the oddly shaped 20g+ weight that is a hard body.

If there is a vac-form you really like, make a back-cast in resin.

If you want 1/32 to be about real looking cars then it's easiest to require hard bodies.
 

· Senior Slot Car Mechanic
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Having said all that Spa, I would say, that at least 30% of current hard bodies are grossly out of scale, how slippery is THAT slope.

Just look at NSR, some Fly cars, and all the Racer cars. They are none of them even close to scale, and, many are not proportionally accurate to ANY common scale, being 1/30 scale in length, and, 1/28 scale (or more) in width.

Yet, most are accepted readily, just, because they are "hard bodies", and, supposedly"better" for this reason alone.


I vote for vacs.
 

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A Vac form body can be made to look as good or better than a hard body. And I am no speed crazed moron. The bodies by Victor (True Scale) are the BEST I have ever worked with. John's (Howmet TX) are extremley good and I now a whole bunch to paint (thanks again John) for some very retro F1's.

Here is an example of what can be done with a vac form body with a little bit of effort:



Granted it is not a replica livery but a fantasy one. I have many hard body 1/32 cars and there really isn't one that I can say is perfect that's for sure.
 

· Senior Slot Car Mechanic
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QUOTE Here is an example of what can be done with a vac form body with a little bit of effort:
And, that is a perfect example of exactly why vac bodies are banned in most 1/32 scale clubs and events.


Very nice paint job, but, no amount of paint will disguise the grossly slammed out of scale body.
 

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QUOTE "And, that is a perfect example of exactly why vac bodies are banned in most 1/32 scale clubs and events. rolleyes.gif

Very nice paint job, but, no amount of paint will disguise the grossly slammed out of scale body. "
Exactly my point.

Noose, that body like all your work is gorgeous. I constantly check your thread and admire your work. But that body is a "handling body" no where near scale height as bwaminispeed points out. Lets face it, the body might be 1/24 in width and length, but not in height. Those 1:1 cars ran about a 28" tire, and D3 runs .8125" that translates into 1/34 scale.

Oh, and for 99% that paint job would take quite a bit more than QUOTE "a little bit of effort". I have to believe that the years of experience come in handy.

I also agree that something on the order of 30% of 1/32 hard bodies are out of scale. That's why I said QUOTE "If you start getting picky about that your going to have a hard time justifying the scale integrity of some hard-body cars" But at least even the worst of the offenders have headlight lenses, mirrors, realistic drivers, full engine detail, tail lights,etc...

You may have A hard body that weighs 15g but 95%+ of them are over 20.

You can have a minimum body weight, but that's more rules, and everyone hates to have more rules


Besides, if you had a minimum body weight rule guys would just find ways to make the bottom of the body heavier!

I'd love to run with 20 guys that could all take a betta shell and make it look even close to a RTR, but I think you'll find that their are few clubs with this much talent.

You can see a Darwinian evolution from a mid 60's sports car body, to someone taking the same body and cutting off the bottom bit, to a mass produced "handling" body, to a spyder "handing" body, to the same body with air control devices, to the removal of the driver, to the modern wing car. A lot of people are afraid this would happen in 1/32 that's why you see the resistance.
 

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Hi C/S,
I'm a fan of 30 thou white styrene vacuum formed bodies. They are a good base for light, strong slot car body. Unfortunately there is not much of a selection of accurate scale bodies. I would also prefer to not have details such as rear spoilers, roll bars, intakes etc. moulded in.

cheers,
Bob
 

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Bring back the vacform.....

I remember carving out a K&B ferrari 250 body in 1/32.
The styrene was thick like a good toenail.
Good bodies those.

QUOTE I would also prefer to not have details such as rear spoilers, roll bars, intakes etc. moulded in.

I'm with that too

John
 

· David Collins
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I don't think the real issue is vac-form or not. The issue is one of encouraging participation. That requires fairness in the racing standards. I think this is why one-make races (e.g. Slot-It Group C) have become so popular.

There is always a tension between the scale enthusiasts and the outright racing guys, If you want to be competitive, you will inevitably want to take advantage of the lightest bodies, the widest track, etc. So where vac-forms become legal, it will push people to adopt them. There is a history here in the descent (as I would see it) in the sixties/seventies away from scale towards handling bodies.

It's an issue many intelligent and experienced people have struggled with in coming up with standards like those of the Classic Slot Car Racing Association or club standards like those at my own club, Wellingborough.

I think if they were to be introduced, the rules on say, car width and height, would have to be tighter. And that could become a nightmare for scrutineering, especially at open event level.

David
 

· Eddie Grice
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You could look at this another way, i.e. what the people in Bordeaux & Turin do: -

Allow both hard & vacformed bodies and split each competitors score into concours & race results awarding 1 point for first etc.
Person with the lowest overall score wins the meeting........easy.
This is self governing as if you turn up with a vac formed carrier bag for speed, you will get nowhere in concours & severly restrict your overall score.

The downside in the UK is that this plays straight into the hands of a certain M.Kerr

Eddie
 

· René 'Vialli' Christensen
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QUOTE (keysandslots @ 5 Mar 2009, 19:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>These guys used to do some great stuff:

True Scale

I've done a few of their older 1:32 bodies, here's one:



I wish I had purchased more several years ago. They don't seem to be making much scale stuff now, not sure why.

Randy
Looks like the notes for "Yesterday".
 

· Phil Smith
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As Eddie says, Turin and Bordeaux vintage meetings allow vac-form bodies and have been very successful, this year will be their 20th and 9th meetings respectively (there is a small points penalty at Turin), by combining the concours and race result to achieve the overall score.
Also another benefit of this system is that you only need very basic rules, no dimensional rules are necessary. If you turn up with a car too wide and with under scale tiny wheels you will do badly in the concours no matter how fast it is, the whole system is self-policing.
We will be trying this out in the UK at Wellingborough in the Vintage meeting at the end of September, I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Still I see a support for vac forms. It wasn't the use of , say, my MRRC Corvette that helped killed slot racing it was the Raceway bred "speed at all costs" morons who killed it, because no-one had the balls to stand up to them and insist on Model Motor Racing as they did before Muira and all the other rewind merchants bullied in. We had a scrutineer at our club and gawd help you if the model was out more than a 1/16th " in wheelbase, front or rear track or was in any way suspicious in scale accuracy. And he had photos of everything!! That's all that's needed at any meeting.
And you are all still forgetting my original point about weight...BALSA!!! lighter than any 30thou styrene vac-form and still allowed. Then you can put your weights where they make the most difference.
To connect vac-forms with speed freaks is bogus in the extreme.

Slippery slopes are only created if the majority stand there with oil cans feeding them!
C/S
 
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