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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Evening all,
I was at the shop today and they now have A scaleauto 35,000 rpm motor to fit most of our RTR cars. I have no idea what to put it in but the torque figure was amazing: 190gm/cm.(GRUNT/cm.) Over half again the power of my beloved V12/2b 25,000 motor! The prof. said the feedback has been very good on it, and it is a dollar less than the v12. (So I HAD to buy one.) Anyone tried them around here? I'll wager I'll be gearing down on my track.


Looking for a bigger hammer,
cheers!
 

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All I can say is be very careful with these as they can turn a harmless slot car into a lethal projectile, youll have to get a 2nd one because nothing else will be able to keep up on a home track short of a 16d. Ive set up a few for a large comm. track.
You will definitely have to tweak youre down force in any car you put this in.







The Merc has the red can.



Lola with red can , big hubs and Fly Joest Indy Grips.



Enjoy


DE38
 

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Hyper top end power


...but poor braking without magnet

... and impossible to control mid range with magnet(s)


My Slot-It 25k, 26k and 29k motors are much more easier to control on the track and make better lap times.

If we would race only drag racinc this would be THE MOTOR.
 

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Hi Harry, we use the Red Scaleauto on our big Ninco club track;
with magnet : Fly Chevron ( or other similar classic) with 8/9 : 36 gear, slot-it pick up and braids, and also rear axle with bushings : it's a bomb!

And also the Fly Corvette, with rear slot it axle and gears 8 : 29/30 and very small front tyres is a rocket, and also controllable.

Without mag : slot-it Porsche, with sidewinder motor mount; 9/10 : 36 gear and some weight at the rear of the pick up and on the chassis' sides runs very well.

But we all use good controllers, such as Professor motor or Parma modified by NSR, or also NSR electronic and our track has long straights : on a home track with simple controllers I think the scaleauto will be a problem and not a solution.

Ciao
 

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I would tend to agree that on relatively small home tracks, the SC07 would be more of a problem than a help - it is VERY violent! But then I firmly believe that the standard RTR motors are also way more powerful than any normal hometrack needs or can properly use.

However, on our good sized club track, the SC07 fitted to an old Scalextric Ferrari, together with a Slot.it replacement rectangular bar mag and NO other mods, absolutely thrashed allcomers, including V12 powered cars. This was using standard Scaley 60/70 ohm controllers, which made it a right handful to drive, tending to be off/on with precious little in between. However, once used to this, there was nothing to touch the car. I suspect there is no motor that can compete with it using 1 amp power supplies.
 

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tehe... if you can't read it it says 350g/cm!

Only 23,500rpm though, lol

Now this motor is a bomb!

Get one or five and put them in everything you own...

Lotus

PS. If that is not fast enough:



31,000rpm and 226g/cm
 

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Beppe Giannini
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QUOTE I suspect there is no motor that can compete with it using 1 amp power supplies.

Hi Tropi,
unless I'm drastically wrong, that motor will be drawing far more than 1 A most of the time

My understanding is that the figure on motor stickers is the no load current, which is nearly useless. A motor will draw max amps when it's stalled - for the Scaleauto, armature resistance should be no more than 3 Ohm , so 12 V/3=4 A (assuming the power supply can churn them out without sagging)
As revs go up, the current decreases linearly down to the no load value

Very roughly, a slot car motor should operate in the middle third of the range, so the Scaleauto would be drawing between 2.6 A (accelerating out of a turn) and 1.3 A (max speed down the straight)

That said, I cannot understand why nobody measures current draw these days - that's the real indication of the energy put into play, and can be done with a cheapo multitester

Ciao
Beppe
 

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Scott Brownlee
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QUOTE I cannot understand why nobody measures current draw these days - that's the real indication of the energy put into play

Perhaps because that would get in the way of the day-glo motor can marketing. It's like 0-60mph (or fuel consumption figures for that matter) - they are meaningless and usually unrepeatable by most drivers, but a reasonable comparative measure in the absence of any other.

Scott
 

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We have tried the Nc 4 Stinger : a good motor, but less powerful than the SC07;
31000 rpm at 14,5 v, but at 12v much less. I use it in a Ninco Lola Cart, without mag, and I like it, but others with the SC07 win the race!

Until now I haven't seen a NC6 on the track, but I believe it's more useful in heavy vehicles such as the Pajero, than for light and fast racing ones.
Ciao
 

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Brian Ferguson
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Beppe, I agree with you. No load ratings are almost worthless. I also agree that 1 amp is insufficent for the SC07, NC4, NC6, or similar hi-performance motors.

However, stall readings are also erroneous since they do not occur in normal use. Accelerating from a stop is not the same as stall, in a DC motor. Stall implies that the motor can NOT turn, and thus the current draw is a product of resistance and voltage. However, if the arm CAN turn, the first inrush of power will cause the arm to begin rotating and stall current will never be realized. There will be a brief spike that tends TOWARD the stall current but it will never reach that level and will last only for a very brief time (milliseconds at most). If the supply is a good one, the starting current can actually be satisfied by capacitors on the output.

Using your example, 12V in a 3 ohm armature, I would expect typical current draws to range in the lower half of the stall band, even on mag cars - up to 2 amps max, with a VERY brief spike to perhaps 3A on initial startup. Also, at full speed, the motor will draw much less than 1.3A (reverse EMF will bring the current draw to near zero on ANY motor at maximum speed). Even with heavy magnets, I doubt the SC07 will draw more than .5 to .75 A at full speed.

BUT... you are correct! One amp is NOT enough for motors in this range! They will need at least 2, and preferably 3, amps to properly display themselves and have a slight excess current available.

The best measure we could ever hope for would be a standardized system whereby motors were rated at moving a set mass, under set conditions, over a given distance or time, with acceleration and speed measurements, and current draw, available using fixed voltage levels. This would give us real world numbers that might actually mean something. At the moment, motor specs are virtually worthless, and only the experiences of others are truly indicative of a motor's actual performance.
 

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I've only got one of these motors yet, but in my experience this is the best motor on a standard Scalex power supply. I used it to replace the standard motor in my Slot It Porsche, and it seems to have more torque in addition to more top end speed.
Does anyone know anything about the durability of this motor? Does it slow down faster than a Slot It?

There has been a couple of "Pro Race" Subarus with the NC6 motor at the club, and I'm not really impressed with them. The cars were raced no-mag, maybe it is better suited for magnet cars like Sprint say...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thank you all for the excellent replies! Like I stated before, I have no idea what I would put it in. My Slot-it kenwood w/ sidewinder and mag set-up is about the best thing on my track. It doesn't need help for now. I have nothing to take the big-can motors so far, but I am considering building up a TSRF car in 1/32 so I might go the big-can there. My arch rival suggested an f-1 loaded with magnets would be his choice for a "spear of destiny". It might well be good in a heavy car, geared down. I don't know but the prospects are interesting, and the motor costs a bit less. I have heard that these motors don't get too hot, and last long (whatever that means). Enough fast laps and they all heat up pretty good in my experience. I disagree that most stock motors have more than enough power for most home tracks. My experience has been the opposite in many cases, possibly due to the increasing inconsistency of build. Some Mabuchis are fast and some are outright DOGS for instance. I have noticed that cars from Fly, especially, were much better a few years ago. I have to upgrade the motors of the same cars (new) to keep up. I don't count on the stock car to be roadworthy out-of-the-box anymore. If I get one that needs the minimum mods, I count myself lucky. Again, thank you all.
Cheers!
 

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I've used the NC6 in my Slot.It Audi, and found that I think it's the best motor you can put into it for a plexi track. For routed I'd go for something faster with less torque. I've also used it in a Porsche GT1 '98 Evo and it flys... Beccause it's quite a heavy motor (compared to mabuchis) it goes well in light cars like the Fly Racing cars or the Slot.It cars. Try it, you'll like it... If you are dissatisfied, send all you're used NC6s to me with a stamped address envelope and I will send you a personalised thank you note.

Lotus
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I appreciate the offer, Lotus, but my race pile is like a black hole,,, not much escapes once inside.


To fun!
 

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Beppe and Fergy

Regarding the SC07, without contradicting your comments on amperage requirements for best performance possible, my own comments are based on real-world performance on our large SCX club track, where each lane is supplied with its own 15v/1.2amp power supply unit. With these 1.2 amp PSUs, my SC07 simply trounced all standard Scalextric, V12, SCX Turbo and all variants of Ninco powered cars. It doesn't really matter that it would have been capable of even more performance with twice the existing amperage, as it did the job thoroughly convincingly with what was actually available.

I, some considerable way over the peak of youthful reflexes and eyesight, broke the lap record during the actual race, having previously been nowhere near it and, after the race, during a half hour of uninterrupted practice, with me using a V12 powered car as a 'pacer', the club champ then took a whole second out of the existing 8.5 second lap record! Until I produced this 'missile', he had not believed such a massive improvement was remotely possible, but there was the real-world proof, right on the track for all to see.

It's very hard to make meaningful comparisons when the level of magnetic assistance employed can make such huge differences to the power required by any motor (in addition to enabling utterly ridiculous cornering speeds!). But, by a mixture of low cunning, luck and experiment, I seem to have arrived at exactly the right combination of motor and magassistance to produce a winning performance from the limited amperage actually available. I have a few Mabuchi 16/16Ds that are more powerful still, but none of these could could grab enough amperage to perform as well as the SC07. SC07 just seems to be pitched about 'right' for our particular track and power, where the V12s seemed to be only a tiny bit faster than standard Scaleys.

I guess our next season will now produce a lot of red-canned cars but I still have one or two tricks up my sleeve! I really disapprove of mag assistance but it doesn't stop me from taking maximum advantage of it when necessary! However, my favourite trick would be to bar magnetic assistance altogether, which would obviate any need for motors with more oomph than standard.

PS
Prior to the race, I had done a little comparative work on the Kelvin test bench. Results scribbled on bits of scruffy paper, lying around all over the place, but I will try to dig them up and post the figures later. It can be interesting to compare static figures with real world race results and see if the test bench figures were in any way borne out during actual racing.
 

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Beppe Giannini
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Fergy,
let's ignore Tropi (I guess you know the bumblebee story) - no, seriously, is the PSU an unregulated wall wart without overload protection ? Voltage must go way down (and PSU temperature up), but with magnets there's no way that thing will draw less than 2 A

Beppe
 

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These are quite old Scaley standalone transformer/rectifiers, producing DC, large blue cylinders, not the little black wall warts that produce AC.
I don't know if they are regulated or not.
 

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Brian Ferguson
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Beppe, if Tropi ever gets 2 amps into that motor he is gonna be a very, very surprised driver.


Tropi, you are right that a motor can appear to work fine even if slightly starved for power. This is not the case if the demand is massively greater than the supply, but in this case the difference seems to be small. We seem to be talking about running a motor that is happiest on 2 amps at about 1.2 amps? Overall, it will run okay, just not at its optimum level. Perhaps a good thing - it may well be too much for the track if power was not a limiting factor?


The absolute optimum, in this case, would be a motor that drew 1.2 amps max under load and possessed the characteristics that you desired. Geared accordingly, it would then be singing happily all the time, delivering crisp response, and running cool.

Better yet.... talk the club into a high current supply....
 

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QUOTE Better yet.... talk the club into a high current supply....
Hard to talk our club into anything!
eg. I forgot to mention that these superb performances were produced using hard-wired, standard, 60/70 ohms Scalextric controllers and, with standard cars, this is fine, but with that combination produced an illegitimate fornicator of a car to control!
I WILL try to find those test bench results today and maybe produce a few more to go with them. Shortage of kitchen space means using the test bench as a breadboard on bleary eyed brainless mornings such as this . . . I wonder what is the resistance of toast crumbs and marmalade . . . I think I need a housekeeper and secretary.
 

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Tropi -

"An illegitimate fornicator to control"
Way to keep 'er clean, mate! Way to keep her clean!!

-Maltese
 
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