[scalextricv8supercars.com]

Hello

My name is Joseph from Melbourne Australia.

I have a question about power supplies.

I have a 55 metre scalextric sport track which has booster cables soldered on spread evenly and had no issues running the standard c8217 scalextric sport power base with the 2 x c993 standard transformers that you get in the sets...however instead of using the standard scalextric 60 ohm controllers i used the Parma Economy 25 ohm controllers so all was ok....

This is the question?

I have now purchased the c7042 scalextric advanced 6 car power base. I am using the scalextric digital controllers with 2 of their c 7024 15v 4 amp power supplies.....i am still running it in analogue mode with 2 analogue cars only and im finding i dont have the same amount of power as i did before.........i dont understand this as i thought i would have much more power!!

Scalextric in the UK sent me an email saying the following and i quote, "I have spoken with my colleague who explained that standard analogue transformers were not regulated so could give an output of up to 20 volts even though there are only 12 volt transformers. The new 15v transformers are regulated so will not go above 15 volts and therefore will not be as fast."

If this is true and the 2 x c7024 transformers were designed to handle 6 digital cars in digital mode how come i have less power running 2 non digital cars in analogue mode???

Any ways i think i should buy myself a variable dc power supply so i am able to adjust the power to my liking but i would be really appreciate if you can show me or forward me some material, links or any how to you tube links on how to wire it up to my 6 car power base.....i have already purchased 2 x 3.1MM x 6.5MM DC Power connectors.

Looking forward to hearing from you with your wealth of knowledge and experience 

 

[Ade]

hi
not to sure about the in's and out's of this but i would not p.ush more than 15v into the pb.And in connecting a third party psu technically you have voided the warranty.

 

[sealevel]

Until such time as the PB-Pro folks figure out how to "upgrade" the APB, it would not be wise to push more through like Bigbird says.
Only the PB-Pro+S-H C7030 was upgraded to handle higher power without frying any parts.... at least that is what I was told.
Maybe some of the PB-Pro folks can give you a more detailed answer.

Cheers!

 

[Ade]

hi
if running digital it pays in more ways than one to keep the volts to 15v max as the lc and chip components are rated to 16v only...

Also worth trying to use the auto calibration feature thats within the pb so you are sure to be getting full throttle..

 

[scalextricv8supercars.com]

ok this is all new to me as i really thought the C7042 6 car powerbase would be able to take on more power.....

i guess i didnt do my research again as the place i bought the 6 car power base also sold me 2, 3.1MM x 6.5MM DC Power connectors so i can run a variable dc power supply unit.

Also im not really wanting that much more power than im getting....i just didnt understand how i was getting more power from the standard scalextric power supplies (c993-australia) when the c7024 15v 4amp ones dont give as much....

Has it got anything to do with the contollers....as when i run the c8217 scalextric standard sport pb with 25 ohm parma contollers im really happy with the power i get in this set up....

 

[Ade]

hi
as i posted earlier you really need to try the calibration feature that is within the pb menu.It may well be that you are not getting 100% throttle when it is fully depressed.

The digital throttles have from memory 63 steps and it is normal to see them reach only into the high 50s on full throttle,using the calibration feature will get round this so the throttle will achieve a full throttle reading of 63.

 

[scalextricv8supercars.com]

ok thanks bigbird i thought i have done this already but maybe i havent so i will do this now...cheers....i will let you know soon

 

[scalextricv8supercars.com]

QUOTE (bigbird @ 6 May 2011, 06:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>hi
as i posted earlier you really need to try the calibration feature that is within the pb menu.It may well be that you are not getting 100% throttle when it is fully depressed.

The digital throttles have from memory 63 steps and it is normal to see them reach only into the high 50s on full throttle,using the calibration feature will get round this so the throttle will achieve a full throttle reading of 63.

can you please explain this memory 63 steps and how u find the 63 reading?? im looking at the manual and i cant see this anywhere....all i see on page 05 is to press the trigger 3 times under PrS.th

 

[RikoRocket]

There is no display of the 63 like we did on PB-Pro. Do the three throttle presses - that will get you to 100%

But... dont think a higher voltage will make any difference, there is a regulator inside that will just work harder to reduce the voltage back down. And in the limit you will blow that up. Early versions (prototypes) got very hot around there.

 

[Ade]

hi
over to the pbpro guys to explain this one.

 

[scalextricv8supercars.com]

do u think there will be an upgrade so we can use a variable dc psu so we can up the voltage in the near future?

 

[RikoRocket]

No, not in the near future. If you really want raw power try a trade against a PB-ProSH and get 30 Amps and 18V on your track...

 

[hankscorpio]

I think perhaps there is a good moment to take a step backwards from the conversation so far and look again at the question...

2 x C993's (equivalent to a UK C990 12v 1amp Unit) so in theory there are 12v and 1 amp to each track...

2 x C7024 (or equivalents) will output 15v and 4amps to each track...

in general speak.... OOOMMMPPH comes from the amps... Speed comes from the volts... I dont think the power input side is the issue here...

Firstly the APB is eating some power but as the PSU are regulated that doesn't steal any real voltage... So i don;t think its that either...

Jamie G Pointed out a similar thing when he switched from running analogue to digital after sending his C7030 away for modification so it may not be entirely APB related...

Enough waffle... Heres the point... a 30 Ohm resistor is low... It means that the amount of voltage regulation applied to the current is "less" than the standard "60 Ohm" scaley units...

As i Understand it the idea of using a 30 ohm resistor in a throttle is to make the car feel more "spritely" by giving more speed for less controller movement at the start of the trigger movement and finer control at high speeds.... reaching almost full speed at maybe 80% of the throttle maximum.... and the controllers often have a very light spring in them for finer adjustment.

This is way different to how a digital throttle works which is purely proportional.... a straight line response.... as you squeeze the throttle the more power is applied... Not reaching full power until the trigger is fully depressed (as long as they have been calibrated properly)....

So There will be a difference in feel... A car may have felt faster at say 60% of trigger movement witrh a 30 Ohm analogue throttle where it may have been gioving as much as 80% of the available power at that trigger position...

The scaley throttles are cheap... Lubricating the resistor with switch lube will help... Fitting better springs will help... but they are all a bit esoteric things to do...Just like with analogue spending £40 or so on a better throttle than the scalex originals will give better results (Truspeed two button digital a good place to start)... A £100 Slot-it SCP-01 will give you full dialability of throttle settings... and give you back the feel you are used to... But its a big cost!...

So practical things you MUST do if you havn't done already....

FIRSTLY: Make sure you have calibrated the throttles to the powerbase... and set the "trigger start point" to a setting you like... All software options in the APB (and explained in the manual)... This will give you the best from each throttle you have got... and make sure you keep them plugged into the same sockets as the APB will remeber the settings!!!!

SECONDLY: remeber the new throttles are linear and dont expect full power until you fully squeeze the throttle... SSDC allows throttle mapping to tune the throttles to your own tastes (i'm assuming is still in V5.... as i have not installed it yet)

ENSCA digital club upgraded to the Truspeed digitals recently and it helped shave 1.5 seconds of the best lap times over the first few weeks after they were introduced... In my experience I think you are chasing the "feel" of the throttles you are used to by looking for explanations in the "Volts and Amps" but i think its a red herring... The truspeeds don't have 64 individual connectors in the movement and seem to "read" the output based on a throttle curve of their own design instead of linear... they also have softer springs.... the outcome... all cars feel more responsive... No extra Volts, No extra Amps... just changes the "feel"... Digital guys used to the way the scaley ones work find it a tough transition (ME) but to the analogue guys the feel more normal!

hope that offers a different insight into a problem which has poppped up a few times recently... "feel" is a very personal thing.

 

[scalextricv8supercars.com]

Thanks guys for the info!

Sean...tell me more about the Tru-Speed Hand Controllers... if im running analogue cars in analogue mode through c7042 digital pb, i still buy the digital contollers yeah? What is the tru-Speed contoller part number just to make sure im buying the correct one!

Also i did some experimenting and this is the results:-

The cars i used were the scalextric aussie v8s with the original motor, mabuchi 18K....one car was well used and the other a brand new car!

First i ran both using the c8217 scaley sport powerbase with a parma 25 ohm controller using 2 x 12v unregulated c993 transformers and i was happy with how both cars ran....

The second run i used the c7042 six car pb with 2 c7024 15v 4 amp (regulated)....the result was the new car ran well but the used car wasnt getting full power down my long straight (when i had the throttle fully depressed).....

so it got me thinking.....i cleaned the rails all along my straight and guess what ...the very same car got the power it needed!!!

So this is my question? Why is it with the 12v unregalted power i had no issues with both cars even before cleaning the straight but i had the issues with the used car when the track wasnt clean???

Anyways im pretty happy for now at least that i solved my problem and i will be looking forward for more info on the Tru-Speed Contollers

Oh another question will it be ok for my friend to hook up an aftermarket variable dc psu and have it running 15v??? Will this be still ok and not do any damage?

Cheers

Joe

 

[MrFlippant]

Ooh ooh! I think I know this one..

PWM!

The biggest difference between original analog and analog through the digital base is that the digital base is sending PWM (pulse wave modulated) DC. I think a dirty track will have more impact on a PWM signal from the digital base.

Oh, and get some INOX MX3 on those rails.

The variable PSU should be fine.

 

[scalextricv8supercars.com]

Yes you are right!

running analogue mode via the digital pb had a bigger negative performance when the track was dirty vs running full analogue!!!!

i got to try the inox-mx3....i found that our local hardware store has it stock

Cheers

Joe

 

[MrFlippant]

With the rails properly treated with INOX MX3, I think you'll find the performance of the cars much more comparable.
Sean (hankscorpio) made a great point about the controller, though. Before splashing out on six TruSpeed controllers, give the OEM controllers a tune up. A softer spring (Parma economy/standard) and a good clean will work wonders. After that, you can tweak settings in the base for different cars.

Follow the links in my sig for helpful info on applying the INOX or setting up the base's options.

 

[hankscorpio]

QUOTE (MrFlippant @ 6 May 2011, 16:17) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ooh ooh! I think I know this one.. PWM!

The biggest difference between original analog and analog through the digital base is that the digital base is sending PWM (pulse wave modulated) DC. I think a dirty track will have more impact on a PWM signal from the digital base.

OK... I thought we were way beyond dirty rails.... But yeah PWM may well be the answer...

With analogue the power is "on the rails" all the time as a varied voltage...

Believe it or not PWM works by putting 12v to the rails in very fast pulses (100's (if not 1000's) of times a second) because of the architecture and some great experimentation from MR Flippant and some deep thought it is believed that the PWM signal is pulsed between lanes alternately not simultaneouosly... but what has that got to do with dirty rails?????

Well it probably goes like this... carbon build up caused by "arcing" leaves a deposit on the rails which interrupts current flow... With analogue Power every time there is good contact the full voltage at the rails all the power gets through... With a PWM signal if the time of good contact there is an "off" pulse then no current will pass as well as the times when there is no contact due to dirt.

There is no substitute to clean rails with digital... and that applies to analogue users of the APB... For digital users its about the transmission of data packets... For Analogue users its about recieving all PWM pulses.

Anyway onto the nicer feeling truspeed controllers... Here is the Link... They come with a choice of "wiper board" they come with the type one board as standard. You can change the throttle response by changing the wiper boards as you would the "resistor" in an analogue throttle... They come in Linear (as scalextric designed them), Type one which gives a more analogue feel... and type 2 which is an even bigger curve better suited to hot motors....

Hope that helps...

Good controllers though will not overcome poor conductivity on dirty rails... ENSCA also used INOX!

 

[scalextricv8supercars.com]

Sean

as i have a few parma economy contollers, as a cheaper option what do u think of the tru-speed digital kit sold by Pendleslotracing.co.uk....Tru speed digital kit for parma economy controllers

...

 

[JamieG]

I have the Truespeed digital controller and when I was running digital it was ways better than the std scaley ones. I would guess the kit is fine but still you will be missing the brake and maybe there are related functions connected to the APB.

I recommend you to keep the Parma pieces in case in future you will go back to analogue

Cheers,
JamieG