[bigcol9]

The forthcomming C7042 Advanced 6 Car digital powerbase promises analoge mode for analoge cars.
If this was fitted to a track with digital lane changers, in analoge mode will it work or would the lane changers cause a short or something? Are the Lanes in a lanechanger indipendantly wired? Know what I mean?

 

[martinkay]

There will be some issues with the lanechangers, I've already tossed this one into the RichG "think tank" as I am sure come Christmas we will see hundreds of people on here asking the same question. We need some sort of "lanechanger disable mod" but as far as I understand it we need to see the C7042 first and take it to bits.

 

[dww]

It might depend how the analogue mode is implemented. It may be a 'real' analogue mode whereby the controller outputs DC to each of the tracks. I wonder if it will be more like model rail DCC, though, which offers 'analogue' control of one un-chipped locomotive using high frequency asymmetric AC (effectively). If that's the case then it might just allow one un-chipped car to run on the circuit alongside chipped ones, although the unchipped car wouldn't be able to change lanes (surely ..). Speculating further (without any evidence ..!!) if the new scaley controller is smart enough, it could control asymmetry differently for each slot, although it's hard to see what the advantage of this would be over a 'real' analogue mode.

Interesting questions might be:

1) Will you be able to race chip-enabled cars in analogue mode, so that you can race chipped cars against un-chipped ones?
2) Will you still be allowed to have lane changers in the circuit? I can't see how they could operate, but it may also be necessary
to take them out of the circuit in order to run in analogue mode.

DWW

 

[RikoRocket]

Curve LCs include a link between the two lanes, this would need to be cut. Straight LCs came later and have no link. But the real issue is keeping the LCs in straight ahead mode. I would favour a mechanical solution, possible by reprogramming the PIC on the LC's, but that is pretty impractical for most people.

Welcome BTW

 

[dww]

Hi, and thanks. I should have introduced myself. I will get around to it sometime ...

This is all just guesswork, of course, until somebody knows how 'analogue' the analogue mode is. We should really wait and see, but speculating is just irresistible!

If it's the same as DCC, then it wouldn't really matter how the crossovers were wired. Only one analogue car could run, though, as all the slots would get the same signal, but you could run it against several digital cars. Either of the other possibilities would need the slots to be electrically isolated, I guess, so the curved lanechangers definitely couldn't be in the layout.

It would matter a bit if the flippers might randomly be in the wrong place, though! Do they really move around on their own? Naïvely, I had assumed they'd stay in straight ahead position unless a car with it's lanechange button pressed went over them, but they don't have an 'over the centre' spring, or anything, so maybe not.

D

 

[RikoRocket]

It will be PWM for sure. The idea that you can mix analogue and digital won't work. The problem is the digital cars have been set up to also work on analogue. The on board chip recognises assymetry as a DC input and reacts accordingly. That is why the failure mode on the older 6 car powerbases was the cars would drive off on their own, recognising the assymetry from a dead mosfet as a max voltage input from the other rail = full speed.
So safe to say the analogue will be a "mode" that treats all cars as analogue. As the drive is a full H bridge it is not that difficult to derive the easy solution (no extra components) will be using the mosfets to drive the rails, and that means PWM.

BTW coming soon to a PB near you.......

p.s.
The flippers take a signal from the approaching car and drive open or closed each time for about 250ms. Then they are free, undriven.

 

[dww]

Aha. That has put a damper on my wild speculating fun, then!

So to do it the DCC way would require a smarter chip in the cars, and (unlike DCC) the SSD chips are electronically pretty basic and come from only one (well, two) manufacturers so that's unlikely to happen even if it was desirable.

Also, I guess from the above that the flippers just remain in the position that the last car left them until another comes along and signals whether it wants them open or closed. Is that right? If so, then even in a PWM analogue mode you would need to make sure they were all in the straight on position, and didn't get rattled around too much, otherwise the cars would jump lanes.

D

 

[gorp]

just wondering if scaly digital controllers would also run the analog toys
and
if pbpsh could count laps per lane
and if so could it expand to 4 lane analog

 

[RikoRocket]

PBProSH will count laps per lane, we had it working for the land speed record. It also sends data down the aux lead so all the RMS programs will work. You won't need to change the throttles gorp, and the potential may be there to have all the same functionality as in digital mode, but lets walk before we run eh?

 

[SJW]

Even though it's not as convenient as having one Powerbase with a swtich, you can run digital and analog on the same track by just switching the Powerbases (analog/digital) and making a couple of simple modifications to the curved lane changers (or use straights only). The pit and straight LC's don't need any modification.

I have my track set up this way and it takes about 2 minutes to switch.

Model Car Racing Magazine #28 has an article on modifying curved LC's to run in analog mode. Riko is right, you have to isolate the two lanes by cutting the connection between the lanes.

Adding a magnet to the flipper as described in the "SSD flippers need to liven up., Modification needed" thread here: http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=210134 works perfect for holding the flipper in analog mode.

Steve

 

[gorp]

already ready to walk

 

[Spa67]

Call me kookie, but maybe they mean that you can only race one analogue car at a time.

That may sound stupid to some, but here's why it makes a lot of sense to me.

1.-I can buy a car of any brand and run it before I bother to chip it. If there is another issue I can possibly fix it while it's on the workbench getting chipped. This also helps with my total impatience when it comes to playing with new toys.
2.-I can easily run/test my analogue cars. This is very important to me as I am active with an analogue club and we run about every other week.
3-If somebody else want's to race, why not just race digital!

all kidding aside, I think there may be quite a few hobbyists who like reason #2

 

[martinkay]

QUOTE (SJW @ 27 Jun 2008, 00:10) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Even though it's not as convenient as having one Powerbase with a swtich, you can run digital and analog on the same track by just switching the Powerbases (analog/digital) and making a couple of simple modifications to the curved lane changers (or use straights only). The pit and straight LC's don't need any modification.

I have my track set up this way and it takes about 2 minutes to switch.

Model Car Racing Magazine #28 has an article on modifying curved LC's to run in analog mode. Riko is right, you have to isolate the two lanes by cutting the connection between the lanes.

Adding a magnet to the flipper as described in the "SSD flippers need to liven up., Modification needed" thread here: http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=210134 works perfect for holding the flipper in analog mode.

Steve

This sounds ideal. Cut the connections across corner LCs and add a magnet to all in-flippers. When you want to run analogue, swap out the powerbase (or switch to analogue mode with the new C7042), and go round the track moving all the flippers across to straight-on where the magnet will hold them in place (as described in the modification thread, not too strong a magnet or it won't release the flipper when asked to do so in digital racing). Is that all there is to it?

Welcome SJW by the way!

 

[SJW]

That's all there is to it. It works great.

Like Spa we (my son & I) race a lot at a LHS with an anolog track so we can test and practice for those races at home.

 

[Jaak]

You might want to take a look at this thread:

Digital and Analog in one track

Cheers,
Jaak

 

[injectorman]

I think the Hornby analogue powerbase will be deleted and only the new one available. I dont think Hornby intend to be it to be used on a hybrid track because of the LCs will destroy the cars. Of course the enthusiasts can get around this.
I predict also Hornby will delete analogue cars soon and release just one that can run on both (with brakes). And to those of you who doubt it Carrera have just done it. I predicted this a year ago.

Rick

 

[gorp]

please ignore my ignorance
based on posting by injectorman at digital forum concerning analog scorpious

if pbpsh was separated at track by longer length of wires for positive and negative leads
and if these wires could be pluged and unplugged
and replaced with with conventional analog track wiring to each lane
with a scaly digital chip inserted inline

then could pbpsh and scaly digital controllers be used to run analog toys
using most of the features of the digital version ?

 

[MajorMagless]

gorp,

I like your thinking! Not so much your typing, but I really like your thinking!

I see no reason why it wouldn't work but am anxious to see what those who truly understand this have to say...

Mike