Scorpius-Wireless Digital Slot Car Project.
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PJR RACING 6 HR ENDURANCE powered by Scorpius.
Coming soon at PJR Racing Finley, New South Wales, Australia, a 6hr endurance event powered by Scorpius using Ninco track, and non mag NSR cars, GT40's, 917's and Moslers. All motors sidewinder, all cars stock standard (except motor upgrade and weight) including tyres. Body screws can be loosened, weight can be added. Motors can be 20, 22K and 25K Shark only. 20K and 22K motors can be upgraded to 25K.
Teams will be 2 or 3 (yet to be decided), if 3 then the idea is one driving, one marshalling, one resting or acting as mechanic.
Date to be announced.
Coming soon at PJR Racing Finley, New South Wales, Australia, a 6hr endurance event powered by Scorpius using Ninco track, and non mag NSR cars, GT40's, 917's and Moslers. All motors sidewinder, all cars stock standard (except motor upgrade and weight) including tyres. Body screws can be loosened, weight can be added. Motors can be 20, 22K and 25K Shark only. 20K and 22K motors can be upgraded to 25K.
Teams will be 2 or 3 (yet to be decided), if 3 then the idea is one driving, one marshalling, one resting or acting as mechanic.
Date to be announced.
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Rick, That should be a great race ,the NSR cars handle well.The 22k would be my choice, a nice balance of power to handling .There are days I wish you were a little closer,I would like to drive in a Scorpius endurance race. But it won't be long til I get my Scorpius wooden track built. Joe
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Agreed, I think Ill run a 22K GT40, no weight. They seem to out perform even the Mosler through corners, unbelievable car to drive.
QUOTE (ryk4racing @ 14 Feb 2009, 21:50) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Plus, you have the advantage of supplying the amount of power you need direct to the rails. There doesn't have to be any heavy duty 25amp components custom installed in the powerbase (or black box). Decide you need more power now that there's 12 regulars racing? Just install a bigger power supply. No worry about blowing out any other components.
The trouble is that you can't change the amount of available power, not the voltage, or in a very limited way, since the LBs can't handle anything different than 12 volts +/- 2 volts (A guess: may be LBs do not have a LDO but a resistor divider for cost or space reason). That's the only drawback/risk I see with Scorpius, everything else seems perfect! But it's an important risk if you are used to have a variable power supply and need/want to use more than 13.8 volts... I hope that there is at least some fuse or polyswitch to protect the LBs?
The trouble is that you can't change the amount of available power, not the voltage, or in a very limited way, since the LBs can't handle anything different than 12 volts +/- 2 volts (A guess: may be LBs do not have a LDO but a resistor divider for cost or space reason). That's the only drawback/risk I see with Scorpius, everything else seems perfect! But it's an important risk if you are used to have a variable power supply and need/want to use more than 13.8 volts... I hope that there is at least some fuse or polyswitch to protect the LBs?
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I guess I'm thinking LB's would be powered separately. That's best no matter what system you run on, IMO. Even with that wiring, it's less than my 4-lane analog with all the jumpers, drivers stations, etc.
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QUOTE (polopo @ 22 Feb 2009, 05:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The trouble is that you can't change the amount of available power, not the voltage, or in a very limited way, since the LBs can't handle anything different than 12 volts +/- 2 volts (A guess: may be LBs do not have a LDO but a resistor divider for cost or space reason). That's the only drawback/risk I see with Scorpius, everything else seems perfect! But it's an important risk if you are used to have a variable power supply and need/want to use more than 13.8 volts... I hope that there is at least some fuse or polyswitch to protect the LBs?
With Scorpius you would only require over 14V with mag cars on larger circuits. Even this is doubtful, the Scorpius cars seem to run on 1-2 V less to get same performance, so where you'd normally use 16, you would probably only require 14 or thererabouts to give you an idea.
The LB could handle 16V if pushed, but we think its better to keep in its operating range.
Regardless you have overload protection with the LBs. There is no risk
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At this stage Scorpius is on its limits with functions and features, after a while too many costs simply make the project non viable.
Rick
With Scorpius you would only require over 14V with mag cars on larger circuits. Even this is doubtful, the Scorpius cars seem to run on 1-2 V less to get same performance, so where you'd normally use 16, you would probably only require 14 or thererabouts to give you an idea.
The LB could handle 16V if pushed, but we think its better to keep in its operating range.
Regardless you have overload protection with the LBs. There is no risk
At this stage Scorpius is on its limits with functions and features, after a while too many costs simply make the project non viable.
Rick
QUOTE (injectorman @ 22 Feb 2009, 07:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>With Scorpius you would only require over 14V with mag cars on larger circuits. Even this is doubtful, the Scorpius cars seem to run on 1-2 V less to get same performance, so where you'd normally use 16, you would probably only require 14 or thererabouts to give you an idea.
Rick
I can certainly vouch for that, running at Ricks with 11v was awesome, but myself, slotheed and drummer all thought we were running on 13.8v.
Scorpius certainly seems to use it's available voltage much more efficiently than SSD.
Rick
I can certainly vouch for that, running at Ricks with 11v was awesome, but myself, slotheed and drummer all thought we were running on 13.8v.
Scorpius certainly seems to use it's available voltage much more efficiently than SSD.
QUOTE (injectorman @ 21 Feb 2009, 21:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>With Scorpius you would only require over 14V with mag cars on larger circuits. Even this is doubtful, the Scorpius cars seem to run on 1-2 V less to get same performance, so where you'd normally use 16, you would probably only require 14 or thererabouts to give you an idea.
The LB could handle 16V if pushed, but we think its better to keep in its operating range.
Regardless you have overload protection with the LBs. There is no risk
![]()
At this stage Scorpius is on its limits with functions and features, after a while too many costs simply make the project non viable.
Rick
Yes you're right, someday a product has to be finalized! Since the LBs are overload protected, I'll go with Scorpius, but I would be very curious to see the RPM difference you get between a Scorpius car chip and, for instance, a Ninco one, running the same motor at the same voltage. If a motor driven by a Scorpius chip at 13.8 volts runs at a speed similar to a Ninco chip with 15 volts, there is no more voltage issue and no need to wire the LBs.
Bernard
The LB could handle 16V if pushed, but we think its better to keep in its operating range.
Regardless you have overload protection with the LBs. There is no risk
At this stage Scorpius is on its limits with functions and features, after a while too many costs simply make the project non viable.
Rick
Yes you're right, someday a product has to be finalized! Since the LBs are overload protected, I'll go with Scorpius, but I would be very curious to see the RPM difference you get between a Scorpius car chip and, for instance, a Ninco one, running the same motor at the same voltage. If a motor driven by a Scorpius chip at 13.8 volts runs at a speed similar to a Ninco chip with 15 volts, there is no more voltage issue and no need to wire the LBs.
Bernard
There are a number of factors in play here when comparing the voltage and hence te RPM that makes it's way to the motor in a digital system.
Just taking a couple of examples.
Ninco N-Digital has 14V from the PSU and the L6203 driver chip in the Console has a relatively low volt drop, say 1/2 volt, then because the N-Digital system has DC on the rails most of the time with just short bursts of data no bridge rectifier is needed in the in car chip so only a small drop here, say another 1/2 volt. Howerver the N-Digital protocol has a major flaw and only allows 7/8 PWM at max throttle. This alone will drop the voltage to about 12 volts, add the volt for the other components in the chain and you probably end up with about 11 volts max at the motor.
Scalextric SSD starts with 12 Volts then has a relatively inneficient and poorly driven mosfet in the Powerbase, it then has a silicon diodes bridge on the in-car chip which drop more voltage, add it up and no more than 10 Volts gets to the motor. On top of that the volt drop through the Powerbase increases with load thus causing the cars to interact with eachother.
Scorpius on the other hand applies DC voltage directly to the rails so the only losses are in the in car controller, I am not sure if Rick fits a bridge but might for SSD compatibility however would expect it to be schottky diodes, end result absolute max of 1/2 Volt drop.
I am sure Rick will correct the Scorpius numbers if I have them wrong but you can immediatly see that it has about a 2 Volt advantage over the other systems.
Rich
Just taking a couple of examples.
Ninco N-Digital has 14V from the PSU and the L6203 driver chip in the Console has a relatively low volt drop, say 1/2 volt, then because the N-Digital system has DC on the rails most of the time with just short bursts of data no bridge rectifier is needed in the in car chip so only a small drop here, say another 1/2 volt. Howerver the N-Digital protocol has a major flaw and only allows 7/8 PWM at max throttle. This alone will drop the voltage to about 12 volts, add the volt for the other components in the chain and you probably end up with about 11 volts max at the motor.
Scalextric SSD starts with 12 Volts then has a relatively inneficient and poorly driven mosfet in the Powerbase, it then has a silicon diodes bridge on the in-car chip which drop more voltage, add it up and no more than 10 Volts gets to the motor. On top of that the volt drop through the Powerbase increases with load thus causing the cars to interact with eachother.
Scorpius on the other hand applies DC voltage directly to the rails so the only losses are in the in car controller, I am not sure if Rick fits a bridge but might for SSD compatibility however would expect it to be schottky diodes, end result absolute max of 1/2 Volt drop.
I am sure Rick will correct the Scorpius numbers if I have them wrong but you can immediatly see that it has about a 2 Volt advantage over the other systems.
Rich
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QUOTE (RichG @ 22 Feb 2009, 22:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Scorpius on the other hand applies DC voltage directly to the rails so the only losses are in the in car controller, I am not sure if Rick fits a bridge but might for SSD compatibility however would expect it to be schottky diodes, end result absolute max of 1/2 Volt drop.
I am sure Rick will correct the Scorpius numbers if I have them wrong but you can immediatly see that it has about a 2 Volt advantage over the other systems.
Rich
100% correct Rich. And yes we use a bridge rectifier for bi-directional function.
I am sure Rick will correct the Scorpius numbers if I have them wrong but you can immediatly see that it has about a 2 Volt advantage over the other systems.
Rich
100% correct Rich. And yes we use a bridge rectifier for bi-directional function.
IMHO you should list these important facts on scorpiuswireless.com since the 13.8 volts limit is currently the only remaining argument for Scorpius opponents. Did someone at Scorpius (or Rich) got a look at www.davic.eu ? The whole schematic of the Davic system is available online on this site. For instance http://www.davic.eu//images/stories/nomenc...ec%20quartz.pdf (for the version without crystal) and there http://www.davic.eu//images/stories/nomenc...ns%20quartz.pdf (for the no crystal version).
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Rick,
Will you be using fuses to protect the hand controllers from short circuit like the Slotit hand controller? I am sick and tired of changing fuses on my scp-1 with the slightest short as the car deslots or reslotted. If so, is their some way of using a slow burn fuse or other technology so I can spend more time racing and less time changing fuses?
Will you be using fuses to protect the hand controllers from short circuit like the Slotit hand controller? I am sick and tired of changing fuses on my scp-1 with the slightest short as the car deslots or reslotted. If so, is their some way of using a slow burn fuse or other technology so I can spend more time racing and less time changing fuses?
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Some people may have said that i deslot ones i while
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but i never blew a fuse on my scp-1. Going 13,8 volt carrera bastard track
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QUOTE (polopo @ 22 Feb 2009, 23:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>IMHO you should list these important facts on scorpiuswireless.com since the 13.8 volts limit is currently the only remaining argument for Scorpius opponents. Did someone at Scorpius (or Rich) got a look at www.davic.eu ? The whole schematic of the Davic system is available online on this site. For instance http://www.davic.eu//images/stories/nomenc...ec%20quartz.pdf (for the version without crystal) and there http://www.davic.eu//images/stories/nomenc...ns%20quartz.pdf (for the no crystal version).
Scorpius lane changing and lap counting protocols are free of charge and one day will be on the website.
Schematics will only be made available for a licensing agreement.
QUOTE (Camber @ 23 Feb 2009, 07:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Rick,
Will you be using fuses to protect the hand controllers from short circuit like the Slotit hand controller? I am sick and tired of changing fuses on my scp-1 with the slightest short as the car deslots or reslotted. If so, is their some way of using a slow burn fuse or other technology so I can spend more time racing and less time changing fuses?
Different scenario. Youre talking analogue I assume. If youre talking digital let me know.
With Scorpius hand controller, only low voltage data is used, no fuse required, no chance of damaging anything.
Hope this makes sense.
Scorpius lane changing and lap counting protocols are free of charge and one day will be on the website.
Schematics will only be made available for a licensing agreement.
QUOTE (Camber @ 23 Feb 2009, 07:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Rick,
Will you be using fuses to protect the hand controllers from short circuit like the Slotit hand controller? I am sick and tired of changing fuses on my scp-1 with the slightest short as the car deslots or reslotted. If so, is their some way of using a slow burn fuse or other technology so I can spend more time racing and less time changing fuses?
Different scenario. Youre talking analogue I assume. If youre talking digital let me know.
With Scorpius hand controller, only low voltage data is used, no fuse required, no chance of damaging anything.
Hope this makes sense.
QUOTE (injectorman @ 23 Feb 2009, 08:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Scorpius lane changing and lap counting protocols are free of charge and one day will be on the website.
Schematics will only be made available for a licensing agreement.
I just wanted to know how Davic car chip compares to Scorpius regarding voltage loss...
Schematics will only be made available for a licensing agreement.
I just wanted to know how Davic car chip compares to Scorpius regarding voltage loss...
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QUOTE Different scenario. Youre talking analogue I assume. If youre talking digital let me know.
With Scorpius hand controller, only low voltage data is used, no fuse required, no chance of damaging anything.
Hope this makes sense.
Of course, it's wireless!
Note to self...think before posting dumb questions.
With Scorpius hand controller, only low voltage data is used, no fuse required, no chance of damaging anything.
Hope this makes sense.
Of course, it's wireless!
Note to self...think before posting dumb questions.
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I understand. Yes it would be interesting for comparison purposes. If not the only reason is although I support a common protocol, open sourced, we need competion in all other aspects for example functionality, size, reliability, price. So I think its better not to show every detail of your electronics.
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