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There has been some discussion in other threads about scratchbuilding in 1/43, and the suggestion that such discussion should have it's own thread, so here it is!

I would like to put up some thoughts about where 1/43 is now and what the future holds:

As some may know, the ISP43 proxy series is being run this year, specifically for brass chassis 1/43 cars, and I am happy to be building a couple of cars to enter.
I started off on brass chassis cars as a teenager in the 60s, and brass and other metal chassis have been long established as the way to go in serious competition in the larger scales. I like building in brass, but I am playing devils advocate here in asking whether brass or plastic chassis would be quickest given the motor sizes currently used in 1/43 and the possible consequences of the extra weight that may be involved.

I put forward the suggestion that, given the relatively early stage 1/43 competition is at compared to other scales, that the chassis type be left open in proxys and may the quickest chassis win. I am not sure if there are enough people prepared to make brass chassis car to make a purely brass proxy viable, I hope you all prove me wrong!

On a similar topic, motors. I have just referred to the usually accepted motors in the scale, mainly the Go/Compact/Radioshack size. I use these because I like to build models with clear windows and as full as possible interiors. I know that the old Artins and the new Dslots use larger motors that prevent me putting in such detail, so I, personally, will not be going down that route for my scratchbuilds, although I do see the practicality of Dslot series and would participate in them if they were run.

There have already been many 1/43 proxy races over the years, catering for many different classes and genre of racing and long may they continue. There is room for all types of racing in the scale, and even rallying, but I dont know if anybody else does it! But where else do we go from here?

Ok, the floor is yours, what do you want to say?

All the best, Lloyd
 

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I'd like to build a 1:43 car out of an Artin Stratos shell that I've got, but the lack of sensibly priced wheels in the UK makes it a non starter.
 

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Depends what you want to do with it Julian, since I put my Carrera Go track up for test purposes I have found that I can get some decent laps out of standard Artin cars and remotored Artin chassis, all using Artin wheels and tyres. For proxy racing it is best to use turned wheels, but for home use it is not so important. It is interesting to see just what can be done with basic eqipment before going out and spending much money.

Of interest, I am checking out a possible source of smaller sized wheels locally. I do use the excellent RD wheels, but they are larger diameter than I need for a lot of my rally cars.

All the best, Lloyd

PS, I have moulded an accurate Stratos if you want to have ago at building a resin bodied car.
 

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You'll be telling me you've got a resin Opel Manta next......

The wheels is more about looks than grip, I can use some of the smaller size scalextric wheels from the 70s for the rears of the Stratos (it's a gp.5 sportscar BTW) and get good grip but I can't find fronts that look right, closest I've found is Matchbox powertrak rears.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No Mantas I'm afraid, mainly 62 to 72 rally cars with a few later ones, there are 40 in total, but just bare shells that need work to finish. I dont do them as a business but do supply the odd one if anyone wants any. I will pm you the list so far.

Regards, Lloyd
 

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Lloyd
I applaud you for starting this thread

I look forward to a lively discussion and learning something about building model racing cars.

QUOTE (Lloyd.L @ 4 Apr 2012, 03:57) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There has been some discussion in other threads about scratchbuilding in 1/43, and the suggestion that such discussion should have it's own thread, so here it is!

As some may know, the ISP43 proxy series is being run this year, specifically for brass chassis 1/43 cars, and I am happy to be building a couple of cars to enter.
All the best, Lloyd

Please, a small correction. The ISP43 is open to all chassis types that are scratchbuilt. Styrene, Wood, Abs or other commonly available materials will not be excluded. Things like Carbon fiber, stainless steel or other exotic materials are not in the spirit of the proxy, nor are the use of cnc's, lasers, edm machines and such.
Basically what you can do at home with common tools.
That closes the door on an interest of mine in carbon fiber and the use of my cnc router. Oh well!

OK! I have two brass and wire chassis built and am working on more. Getting parts can be a problem. Here are some places I have gone to for the motors, gears, wheels. tires and bodies.

Slot Car Express
Ranch Design
American Slot Car World
http://derbycityspeedway.com/mtracingresins.html Motors here, scroll to the bottom of the page

Lee Gilbert. For foam tires mounted on aluminum wheels
There are also places like
Mid-America Raceways and Pacific Slotcar Raceways. These guys cater to 1/24 and 1/32 scratchbuilders but many of the pieces can be used in 1/43

It can get complicated and expensive but doesn't have to be.

The chassis I've built are
#1) a copy of Fl Slotter's build shown on SCI and my video here
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61869 post # 3
This was a simple build and runs well.
#2) is a variation of that chassis, made wider to take advantage of the 2' width rule for the ISP43 proxy. It runs better but has a bigger faster motor.

These are wire frames with brass parts. Rattle pans or bat wings for weight transfer and body mounting. Lexan bodies. Held on with pins in body mounting tubes, Retro style.

I am currently working on a brass pan chassis for hardbodies ( resin casts )
So far I'm thinking to use vertical tubes with screws to hold the body on to the chassis unless I can figure out a different way to mount the body that is better.

What I need to do is figure out how light a chassis can be and if that weight, or lack of it, is an advantage or not. I am thinking that a certain amount of weight will help traction in a straight line but don't know if it will help around corners. So if I drill holes in the bat wings to lighten them will I still get the weight transfer I want to be able to dive deeper into corners without de-slotting?

Racing has been described as a series of drag strips connected by corners. The guy who is going to be first is the guy who makes it down the straights in the least amount of time. So if you are faster out of that corner you are going to win. Carrying speed around them can only help. Slow in, fast out. But if you can get in deeper in the corner, you have just decreasted the time you have to be on the brakes scrubbing off speed. That momentum will add to the " fast out".
So it makes sense that a lighter car will be faster. It simply will accelerate quicker. The only way to get around a heavier car is to add " Power "
And where do you get 1/43 motors that have power at a tiny size that will fit under some of the car bodies we love so much?
Who says slot cars can't be fun and call them a "kids" toy.
'nuff for now!


Ted
 

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I fully expect this years entries to be far more sophisticated then the previous race. We have more new guys with experience building Pan chassis in other scales and that will certainly be an advantage for them. Additionally those of us who built for the last race, now have that experience under our belts and can build on that!

One form of chassis that did rather well last time and that nobody has really mentioned is the Aluminum Channel chassis. These are VERY easy to do for anybody who wants to dip their toe in the scratchbuilt 1/43 water. Simply take a piece of U shaped aluminum channel cut to length, then drill, grind and file it to your needs. the aluminum is soft and easy to work with. In the previous proxy 2 of my 3 builds were of this type and they were so light I had to screw brass plates to the bottom to get them to run well!

Speaking of I need to get cracking on my builds!
 

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If I may ask a couple of questions,
Is the racing on tracks where magnet traction works?
Is magnet traction allowed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi 300 SLR, here is the link to the ISP43 proxy rules.

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61869

Although it does not specifically say 'no magnets', it does say it is run to the Pronomag rules, so it does mean no magnets, I think. I am sure that the organizers will clarify that.

At home I have a routed wood rally track and now a Carrera Go race track, and much prefer driving without magnets on both tracks, have you tried it?

Regards, Lloyd
 

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Thanks Lloyd

Anybody know if the racing on tracks where magnet traction works?

(Might seem a curious question to ask if traction magnets are probably not allowed, but as there is no mention of motor limits in the rules and some motors have a lot of magnetic field I was thinking how much performance that might give.)
 

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I know that one of the tracks is a routed track with copper tape (Peter's), so you can put magnuts in but it will not help you any! I don't remember, but at this point I think the only other track is Teds and I want to say it's routed no mag as well, but I am sure he will jump in here and correct me!.
 

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QUOTE (Tsooko @ 4 Apr 2012, 14:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Lloyd
I applaud you for starting this thread

I look forward to a lively discussion and learning something about building model racing cars.

Please, a small correction. The ISP43 is open to all chassis types that are scratchbuilt. Styrene, Wood, Abs or other commonly available materials will not be excluded. Things like Carbon fiber, stainless steel or other exotic materials are not in the spirit of the proxy,

Why not ? What is the spirit of the proxy ? SCRATCHBUILDING, as far as I understood and as the rules say. No restriction of any materials in the rules. Carbon fiber and stainless steel are not less common meanwhile than any other material.

nor are the use of cnc's, lasers, edm machines and such.
Basically what you can do at home with common tools.

What are "common tools ? "
Can´t you cut or shape a carbon plate with a dremel, cutting discs, routers, drills just the same way as you would do it with PCB, brass, spring steel ?
I can, and I`m sure everybody who works with a Dremel can as well.
BTW.: Does everybody have a vacuumformer at home ? If not - is it a common tool, and aren´t vacuformed bodies "exotic" then ? Well you can buy / get them from someone else who makes them. BUT this you can do with any "exotic" chassis then, too.....

Not easy - if one started nitpicking.
But I only wanted to say that I wouldn´t ban any material, but the production methods.
I´d suggest that the main restricition regarding chassis should be be that they have to be built with tools everyone has or could have at home - just as you mean above.

Greetings, Roland

That closes the door on an interest of mine in carbon fiber and the use of my cnc router. Oh well!...................................

Ted
 

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QUOTE (300SLR @ 4 Apr 2012, 18:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks Lloyd

Anybody know if the racing on tracks where magnet traction works?

(Might seem a curious question to ask if traction magnets are probably not allowed, but as there is no mention of motor limits in the rules and some motors have a lot of magnetic field I was thinking how much performance that might give.)

What about listing these motors ?


Regards,

Roland
 

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I haven't done any scratchbuilding for about 40 years and that was in 1/24th & 1/32nd scales. Now I'm going to have a go in 1/43rd scale.

This is the body I'm going to use.





This is the full kit





One advantage is the the kits chassis screws on to the body.
I don't have a chassis to fit at the moment, I have got a couple of cars , I think they art Artin, coming soon but I think they will be to short. So it looks like I will be cutting extending and gluing to make a chassis fit

Lloyd when you have some spare I could be interested in a Mk1 Cortina & 105E anglia shell.
 

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QUOTE (Schackel @ 4 Apr 2012, 19:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What about listing these motors ? <<the ones with magnetic down-force>>
As it seems the tracks used in this proxy are made of wood with copper tape, magnetic down-force is irrelevant to these races.
It may be off topic for this thread, but it is interesting to those running on track where magnets do work.

Slot car motors usually have some stray magnetic field.
It would be a big job to measure and list how much field each standard motor has.
It would certainly be interesting if anybody was prepared to produce a comprehensive list.

Some motors are deliberately built with a lot of stray magnetic field to provide a magnet traction. This is a way of getting round "no traction magnet" rules. This is most common in 1/32 racing, the "high down-force" motors are often S can or " long can size (about 15mm high by 20mm wide) which are a bit big for 1/43.

Where the rules say no traction magnet but don't say anything about what motors can be used, there is nothing to stop an entrant modifying a motor to produce more magnetic down-force. That would be a straight forward enough job for racers experienced in motor building. A good question is how much advantage that would give, I guess the only way to find out is to try it. Of course all this depends on what is arguably a loop hole in some sets of rules, it is easy enough for organisers to produce rules that don't have this loop hole.
 

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Peter's track is copper tape and latex paint, hence magnets have no effect My track is Braided but not magna braid, Here's a hint: I have coated the track surface with four coats of Magnetic paint and two coats of chalkboard paint, so there is a slight and smoothly subtle magnetic pull.
If your motor has good magnets in it you can perhaps gain a small advantage but I don't think it will amount to much. I am going to say in the spirit of fairness and this first ( sort of ) proxy, added magnets not be allowed. Let's see what you can do to increase traction with the build and design of the chassis. Or tires.
You could even cast your own tires. No Silicones please.

Lloyd. WE just didn't want to discourage entries by limiting the Chassis material too much
Mas, I forgot all about aluminium! A good material to build with, for sure.

I am new to building chassis and have been studying what has worked in the past and what not. I think that a little chassis theory should be considered starting with how forces act on a moving, hopefully fast moving, car. If anybody has anything to add, please do so.

First let's move the car down a straight.
Upon acceleration the weight of the car transfers to the rear and the front end gets light as in a wheel standing drag cars. The weight is taken up by the tires and that adds to the traction. Too much traction and the guide comes out of the slot. Too little and you got a tire spinning slug.
At the end of the straight you de-accelerate and the weight transfers to the front, making the back end light.

Then we add in torque. As the motor spins, there is an equal and opposite force. This will cause the car to lift on the left side of a clockwise spinning motor looking from the back of the car towards the front, reducing traction to that rear tire. Again I point to drag cars. Sometimes this will be so pronounced that the car will go off course.The heavy wheel getting the most traction and the light wheel getting the least causing the car to torque around the axle. I call this a secondary force, which, in slot cars can probably be ignored until you are into very high perfomace machines.
Except when you are negotiating corners.

Corners: The forces on a car in a corner can be summed up in one word: Inertia!
Inertia is the resistance to change in direction, be that in forward, backward or side to side.
Let's examine what happens to a car in a corner and divide the corner into three sections.
Section one. If there is no change in speed, the car wants to go straight and will deslot when the forward speed is beyond the ability of the guide to hold the car in the slot. Gravity plays a part here, so does traction. As the car decreases speed ( brakes ) the weight transfers to the front increasing the weight on the guide helping it to stay in the slot. One other force comes into play here and that is centrifugal force. The opposite force that pulls on the car in a corner. Left hand corner, right hand force, Right hand corner, left hand force. So not only does the weight transfer to the front it also transfers to the side opposite the direction of the corner, with the most weight transferred to the front tire on the outside of the corner.
Second section. This is where we are off the brake and the car is coasting. The front to back weight transfer is neutral and centrifugal force has weight transferred to the outside tires. Weight to the tires adds traction and grip. As long as we have slowed enough the guide will stay in the slot and the car will follow it around
Third section. This is where we accelerate, transferring weight to the rear of the car with centrifugal force still transferring weight to the outside tires, the most weight being on the outside rear. Here also is where the motor torque comes into play somewhat. Remember that? The torque will also transfers weight to one side of the car making it easier to go in one direction than the other.
Managing these weight transfers is what we are aiming for. 1 to 1 cars do this with springs, shocks, torsion bars, traction bars and other magical mechanical devices.
We don't have those tools at our disposal and must do this another way. So how?
In a word: FLEX.
WE can build in Flex into our chassis allowing the chassis to twist and bend absorbing and redirecting the forces acting on our slot cars keeping rear tires flat, the guide in the slot, traction to a maximum and power to the road.

A good chassis is one that transfers weight to where it is needed most.

'nuff for now

Ted
 

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Hi Ted
That's a good explanation.
What you say about motor torque applies to inline motors - which seems to be the norm in 1/43
It works differently if the motor is mounted a different way, sidewinder for example.

What works in 1/32 has got to be a good starting point for developing quicker 1/43 cars, but I doubt its more than a starting point. (Quick 1/24 chassis have similarities to 1/32, but the detail is developed to work best at that size.) In racing, making a car really quick rather than just going fairly well is the important bit and that has mainly come from practical development / trial an error rather than theoretical analysis. A lot has been written in earlier threads about the theory of how slot cars work. Some very eloquent and well reasoned, and some of it complete rubbish. The best of it explains why a slot car works, but even the best of it says very little about the differance between a car that goes fairly well and one that is really quick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It is all very well having a car that is really quick in the hands of it's builder, but for proxy racing, a well mannered car that will lap consistantly in the hands of any driver will have the advantage on longer stints. So it also depends on how many laps each car is to be timed over.
 
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