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Slot.it Nissan GT-R GT3, 2022 DiSCA GT3 Spec

9355 Views 72 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  tamar.nelwan
5
Having finally received my long awaited Nissan(s) and posted on their appearance in stock form ...
..they may stay like that until we return from Rockingham's Tres Petit Le Mans...but def not much longer...
... as the #23 car will be raced by my team @ Suzuka in the DiSCA GT3 race of Jan 29th 2022.
So this topic will be on how we'll prep the car(s) to DISCA GT3 spec, meaning chipping it adding lights (that will be fun)
And the fabrication of some flexible lightweight components (vacformed interior & windows, laser cut rubber rear wing mounts)
Team might even have even a certain Italian guest driver. ( and no this time that's not Grunz)

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Hard Nut to crack.

This specific Italian gentleman has given me a very hard nut to crack, cause when I check the reference pictures of this exact car...
...and compare it to the Slot.it car, I can only find some extremely small areas where I can possibly improve the stock car.
More than happy to extend the black on the side skirts, as reported masking on stock car not really a match to the fine finish of the rest of the car
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And there are the solid rearwing supports, these can be lasercut from rubber with some of the openings of the 1/1 wing.
Can also extend the slots for the supports further down the trunk, will give the rubber supports even more room to "Flex"
But look at the detail, Tail lights surrounds painted in correct color...even that embossed Nissan logo is represented on the Slot.it car

So..make note, add red tow band and some mesh in the lower grille. Rear window seems to have a split frame underneath (decal?)
The only thing that looks a bit "off", is the back end of the roll cage...but haven't been able to score good ref pictures of it.
Wheel Car Tire Vehicle Automotive design


Chassis
DiSCA GT3 rules have a more (box) standard approach , so no trick pod mounted diffuser on this car.
Stock screws already replaced with SV Workz Titanium M2.2. Side suspension will be fitted.
Not clear yet if 1,0mm Offset Evo pod will give 1,8mm Ground clearance under motor with 20,8mm 酶 Scaleauto Procomp wheels.
Regs require running Scaleauto Baby Sprinter motor, hope that won't piss off "Italian guest driver" too much.
But then again Pace car he will also drive will be fitted fully with stock parts...including stock traction magnets :oops:
Yep you read it right, Traction magnets, nobody is going to bump the Official Pace car off the track on the formation lap(s), as previously happend at Le Mans 馃槆

Oxigen
O201C chip obvious choice here, testing will determine if it should be mounted longitudinal or transverse (weight distribution)
Good thing about running that big GT-R is...plenty of real estate on chassis for either configuration.

Body works
Side skirts will be cut of chassis and glued to body, most likely will do the same for the front splitter to allow independent set-up of body and chassis.
4 small Body supports will be mounted in body right in front of rear wheels and behind front wheels.
4 grub screws will be added in chassis underneath to adjust ride height. Been there done that...doing it next month
Dive plates are integrally moulded with the body, pretty sturdy too...will have to see how those will withstand the challenges of Digital racing.

Stock body now at 23,7 total. Vac formed but detailed interior should save 3,5- 4,5 grams off. Not too much gain expected from vacformed windows...
...as plastic windows are already at minimum. So estimate maybe 5 -6 gr max from total vacformed parts.
Which mean there will stil be a lot of (careful) dremeling & scraping to get the whole body down to 14-15 gr...so there's room enough for.....
Automotive lighting Product Black Motor vehicle Font


Light(s)..let there be
Estimate 3,5 gr needed for SP44 light kit to power plenty of LED's, Slot it has moulded front lights as separate parts, so these can be done off the car.
The only Jazz I might be able to add will be some pretty purple led light peeking through the front grille.
That is unless DrC and Flag Slot manage to get their "functional LED Number/ Position Display" functional in the next month.
Oh.... good finally see somewhere I can cut into the body, opening up the bumper for the bottom purple leds :)
Automotive tail & brake light Vehicle Hood Automotive lighting Car


Ok that's it for now, got my to do list for the Nissan(s) but next update will have to wait till next month... but definitely

To be continued

With kind regards
Tamar
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In the clubs I race (analog) won鈥檛 let me cut the side skirts as you say, nor the bumper...
And you don't have to Daniel.
There are 3 reasons for doing this mod.
  1. It will allow independent ride height adjustments of Chassis and Body
  2. It will lower the chassis weight and increase the body weight...but way down low. Nice if the rules allow you to lighten bodies and shift weight around.
  3. It will allow more accurate support of body on chassis (in combination with grub screws added on chassis and some supports glued in body)
Now obviously your club rules don't allow any of this...but you can still have some of the benefits of point 3.
The downside of a slotcar constructed in a way that the body rests on the outer edges of the chassis (side skirts, front-splitter and diffuser) ...
...is that its very hard to have/control that contact...hmm how shall I say this....evenly around the whole perimeter.
The body will make contact with the chassis everywhere, or better anywhere at some point.
So to get more control, adding 4 small drops of cyanoacrilyc glue to underside of the body above the corners of the side skirts( in front and behind the wheels) would help.
Because now the body will only rest on 4 points of the chassis......instead of everywhere anywhere....much easier to check and adjust if pressure is divided unevenly.

With kind regards
Tamar
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Yes Pedro, check my remarks in the regular GT-R topic on the roll cage.

with kind regards
Tamar
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Hello gents
Had a talk with Steven V, (Supervlieg and SV from Workz) yesterday.
Vacformed lightweight interiors for the Slot.it Nissan GT-R GT3 will be available from mid Jan 2022 via the SV Workz webshop.


With kind regards
Tamar
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Ach! I despair at you speed-crazed morons!馃檮 Why would you get rid of that lovely driver detail??
Get rid of that lovely driver detail?? Get rid of that lovely driver detail!!, why on earth Pedro would you think I want to get rid of all that lovely driver and cockpit detail?
Ach! I see..its because I mentioned "vacforming"
Well let me tell you Pedro that unlike those produced by most speed-crazed morons who indeed give **** about driver detail...
you can make vacformed interiors that do resemble the original instead of a bare resemblance with every thing looking like a lava blob.

For once I'll be the one shouting "off with his head", maybe chop of his torso as well, and the steering wheel. So you can remount those on the lightweight vacformed tray.
For this one I do plan to have my cake...and eat it.

Yup, I did take a prompt from your cockpit musings, Tamar. With or without, I get flare. I also didn't want to cause a digression in this thread so took my grumbling elsewhere. I think. Maybe. Certainly I intended to keep this frequency clear for tuning. 馃憤
Well here's another advantage of scoring bot a painted car and a white kit. So you can compare and see how the body is assembled.
Unboxed mine (white kit) last night as I wanted to add some data in the DiSCA database. Low and behold very part straight & true, not a warp in them, body, chassis the lot.
Bit of flash here and there, just minor stuff that can be easily removed.

But seeing how the body is split up into different parts, I could indentify several other areas that could be prone to cause warping.
And in each and every suspected crime scene there are the clear signs of a serial killer:
Chinese factory workers wielding a soldering iron.
Depending on how their grip on the car was, the following items on the Nissan GT-R GT3 body could cause warping if the body was slightly twisted during "tag soldering" the parts in place:
  • Frontbumper
  • Front headlights
  • Back detail of the bonnet vents
  • All the windows
  • Rear bumper

I'd say for a truely proper prep of this car, (as I intend to do next month) remove all and tag back in place with some flexible neoprene glue...that should straighten her out.
Did I just call her a she? yes I did, GT-R might be a gorilla...but I do think its a female Gorilla ;)

With kind regards
Tamar
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No that's just because for you reference to the drivers "height" you logically pickthe position of the top of the roll cage.
In all its efforts to make a really detailed interior and roll cage slot.it still had to make some compromises.
For my taste the tubing of the cage is a bit oversized and due to assembly and production restrictions...
... the clearing between the roof and the cage makes the whole construction sit a bit low. Barely clearing the driver.
So its not driver to high, its roll cage too low.

With kind regards
Tamar
Nice shot, and hey if you want to lower the driver, who's stopping you ;)
But image sort of proofs my point. See how the roll cage follows the roofline? only the thick foam padding sticking outside into the door opening.
The cage it self would not be visible with the door closed...now check the Slot.it roll cage馃槆
Back to Basics
Hello Slotfriends, with the Rockingham race now well behind us (still recovering) and Suzuka next on the calendar, its about time to start working on the Nissan GT-R and build it too DiSCA GT3 spec.
Its been a while since anyone posted on the specs of such a slotcar...
So for starters here's a breakdown of what parts are needed and which areas need attending.


Circuit component Electronic component Engineering Rectangle Electronic engineering



0: Scaleauto Procomp4 20,9mm酶, Stock inserts fit (more info on that subject will follow in a later post)

1: Motorpod, two options here, Safe one would be 0,5 offset, critical one would be 1,0mm offset. 1,0 barely makes 1,8mm GC on new wheels and would require motor to be raised by 0,2mm.
Ideal would be a 0,75mm offset...but that unfortunately does not exist as an AW in the Slot.it range.
For all options ballbearing type preferred.

2: Slot.it 16mm酶 AW Spur, gearing most likely 12x28.

3: You can use the stock (6,5mmO) Slot.it pinion or when motor pod modified you can also use Sigma/ Scaleauto/Mitoos M50 nylon 12t (6,8mm酶)

4: Use of evo -Side suspension preferred but will need some material to be removed from body (side intakes) for clearence.

5: Scaleauto Baby Sprinter Motor SC-0027b (Long can Boxer type) Don't forget to mount Slot.it Endbell adaptor upside down.

6: Hall sensor to the right mounted on foam pads.

7: DiSCA rules require 1,8 Ground Clearance C under the centre of the motor. The reason for this is that first of all we did not want the GT3 cars to have too much motor magnetism. Secondly we wanted specs that would be achievable by all brands with as much off the shelf parts as possible. Stock NSR cars are well above that 1,8 GC under the motor.
For the Nissan to clear 1,8 GC with a 1,0 offset pod, two 0,5mm shims are needed to lift front of pod to position Motor level with techblock/track rails.

8: Protect base of antenna with some 2k glue and Shrinktube. Funny detail, wanna know how tall the Nissan body is? well the O2 Antenna fits under body in almost fully upright position. 馃槀

9: O201C1 chip mounted @ 90藲 on foam pads. Stock chassis has some nice locator pegs to correctly fix the chip correctly over the various LC Led openings. Clicks right in place. But I would advice a more "soft" placement to isolate chassis vibration and dampen forces during inevitable digital crashes.

10: Stock plastic Front wheels are fine, true and glue stock front tyres. With superglue coating total would be 鈮 20,2mm酶. Inserts pop right out, you could drill some holes in the back face of the rims, safes a bit of weight and makes removing inserts even easier.

11: Now we are arriving at a problem area. With the stock guide the front of the chassis sits a bit high.
Straightening the chassis as I described in this post has cured this. Will repost it here at a later stage.
Stock "clip in "guide is limited in guide ride height adjustments, best candidate for replacement/upgrade would be the new Slot.it Ch89b guide.

12: With Chassis straightened the body rests much better on the chassis...but due to profile of front splitter how the body rests on the chassis will vary under acceleration and braking.
My preferred option would be to cut the Splitter and side skirts and mount them to the body. That way you can adjust Body ride height and Chassis ride height independently. (all allowed by DiSCA GT3 rules)

Ok that's it for now Gents
to be continued

With kind regards
Tamar
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Glad you like it, almost 99% of what I have written in the "Back to Basic" post could be done while still respecting most generally used "Stock /Standard" Club tech rules.
What will follow...won't...as then we'll be entering deeper into DiSCA territory 馃槆

With kind regards
Tamar
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Hello Gio
Just covering the basics in my first post, and for once starting with a relatively "stock" set up first, and then like mentioned before, going deeper in to DiSCA territory step by step.

So for the Nissan with its AW slot.it pod a "stock ratio" would be a 12x28 gearing, which could very easily without any modification be changed to 12x26 (2,17 ratio) which is very close to 14x30 (2,14 ratio)
And you do need to take in account that for 2022 DiSCA GT3 will run on the taller Procomp4 (20,9mm酶) wheels.
So if you calculate the theoretical max speed M p/s 12x26 would actually give you a higher max M p/s than 14x30.

With kind regards
Tamar
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that is the difference between someone who knows what they are doing and me...
LOL, only when it concerns covering up f***k ups, I'd finished the image with numbers and written the list and then realized that I had forgotten about the wheels...and as I had conveniently sequenced and placed the numbers left to right...
and didn't want to redo the image....the only solution was to add...a zero 馃槆

With kind regards
Tamar
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By the way, how is the Slot.it Nissan GT-R with Stefan's chassis? Because out of the box, it's not great. Either the CG is too high or the chassis is too stiff.
As a reply to Atobit's question in an other topic and a small sidestep to reboot this one.
First of all ..must say I have different experiences with the Nissan. Sure enough its CG is high(er) than most GT鈥檚 but鈥 Two Nissan鈥檚 were build for last May鈥檚 Suzuka Double Digital. One in GT3 ( by Dave Maddock) and one in WEC spec ( by Gary) and both were extremely competitive with a simple set-up on a stock chassis.

But as Claude mentioned..his experience with the Nissan is on wooden track...mine/ours is on plastic track.
Lower grip, less penalty for a higher CG. on Plastic track a higher centre of gravity can even be beneficial to generate more grip.
Claude also mentioned that he thought that maybe the stock chassis was too stiff. Well from my experience, wooden tracks, more grip requires a stiffer chassis.
So if you can elaborate a bit more on what your handling problems are Claude...please inform us.
And for those of you that are looking for more grip (and like to preserve those nicely filled wheelarches) slip on a set of the new 1323 moulded slot.it G25 or F22 tires.(y)

As for the Prospeed Chassis that Stefan Nalbach designed for the Slot.it Nissan. What's available via his webshop right now is just the basic design he does for most of the slot cars. Contoured to fit the Slot.it GT-R body, with the correct body mount positions. With the Flex-slots it could be more flexible that the stock Nissan chassis.
But this version is for an NSR type pod so less suited to mounting an Oxigen chip than the stock chassis.
The advantage of the ProSpeed chassis is that you can use it in combination with the ProSpeed (NSR type) pods which are a bit narrower so an easier fit if you want to use side suspension...and are available in a wider and different range of offsets.

But be aware that Slot.it is in the process of fabricating an uprated/upgraded version of its own Evo AW pod with bigger offset than the current 1.0mm.
So stock alternatives will become available.

With kind regards
Tamar
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Small update for the Nissan fans.
Got the rear wing supports laser cut this week, done two versions. A basic solid one...and a much more detailed "open version"
Bringing some over to the UK for the Rockingham 6hrs GT3 race. So should be tested on one of the Nissan's running this weekend.
Should be available from SV Works website in September.

From left to right: 1 Remove stock supports from rear wing, make sure you've got a clean contact patch. Mark position of supports.
2 Enlarge opening for supports where required (pictured here "solid" version) with small key file.
3 Testfit wingsupports and apply a small amount of medium (not so fast drying) Superglue on the top of the supports. Place rear wing in correct position on top of supports.
4 Final result...nice scale but flexible rear wing supports (pictured here the "open" version)


With kind regards

Tamar
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Hi Tamar,
I comeback on this topic. Why have you choose sponge tyres instead of rubber ones?
Sorry for my ignorance, I though sponge tyres were commonly used on 1/24 scale but not on 1/32.
Hello Claude
No need to excuse yourself for your "ingnorance" as it has been quite a while since our "motivation" for why we picked Sponge tires for the DiSCA GT3 series was posted on SF ...in may 2016. ;)
Here's the link to the original post

I reread the post and I still stand by all I posted more than 6 years ago.
There is one additional factor that isn't mentioned in the post and that is that with the Scaleauto "handout" wheels both organizers and racers could rely on the fact that each and every set that came out of the sealed blister wrapping would be perfectly straight and true, and perform accordingly.
A compound that required zero tyre prep during the DISCA GT3 events, just mount them and rub them in for 10 min and you were good to go.
The only thing that has changed in al those years is that now...the best option is the Scaleauto Procomp4.

With kind regards
Tamar
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Hello Gio
In addition to Gary's remarks.

As GD mentioned before Sponge tires are more commonly used in 1/24, in general the perception of using sponge tires on 1/32nd cars is that they provide too much grip.
Which was why at the time we started the DiSCA GT3 formula we went for the then hardest compound available for 1/32nd scale, the Procomp3.
But immediately I started lobbying at Scaleauto to produce the hardest compound in their range, the Procomp4, for 1/32 as well.

Scaleauto Procomp4 is a harder compound than the Procomp3 (40-45 shore vs 30-35 shore). In general the harder the compound, the less the side wall of the sponge tire will be able to deform/flex and as such the less grip it will provide.
To a certain extent a harder compound will also have a lower wear rate. And from an organisers point of view... a bit less grip and bit more durability was what we were looking for.

As Gary mentioned "...the Procomp4 is easier to drive when new as they aren鈥檛 so grabby on the surface". This is a result of the harder compound deforming less when the wheels are trued.
All sponge tires deform slightly during the trueing process. The pressure applied during trueing bends the sidewalls slightly outwards which results in a minimal "convex" profile as the sidewalls bend back "up" after the trueing is finished.
Again the harder the compound the smaller the deformation, meaning that straight out of the box the Procomp4 has a less "convex" profile than the Procomp3 and will perform better with a more neutral handling.

One would expect the lesser grip of the Procomp4 to result in a higher laptime than the softer Procomp3 and over one lap, under ideal conditions, with a fine tuned set-up... this would be correct.
But not over the full duration of a DiSCA GT3 race. In general on the Procomp3 the lap times would tend to drop during the first 20 -30 minutes of the race, after which they would tend to start rising again.
This is due to decreased ground clearance caused by the tire wear which increases the magna traction and causes the car to develop more and more grip...to the extend that the car gets bogged down on the track. Requiring you to push harder and harder to maintain the same laptimes. It also increases the motor temp which results in less power.
With the harder Procomp4 you still have the same process of decrease/increase in lap times but with a lower wear rate the handling of the car will remain stable for a longer period than with the Procomp3. As a result your average laptime over the full race duration could be lower than those achievable with the Procomp3.

Procomp4, can they last long enough to run two (60 min.) races? My answer would be yes and not only because the harder compound can provide a lower wear rate but also because you have more tyre to begin with.
On DiSCA request the Procomp4 wheels are trued to a bigger diameter than the Procomp3 wheels (20.9mm酶 vs 20.6mm酶)
This increase in tire diameter was requested to provide a bit more wriggle room for cars with stock Sideways and Black Arrow pods that (depending on set-up) could struggle to pass the 1.8 mm ground clearance on new tires...and the bigger tires look better too 馃槆

A last word on the durability, as I mentioned before, a harder compound will also have a lower wear rate...to a certain extent. Tire wear is mainly caused by the amount of tire spin.
For the optimum performance of a sponge tire a minimal amount of spin is required.
But with a set up that is too loose, and/or a driving style that hangs the tail out on every corner entry and exit...you might end of with just the same wear rate as a softer compound ...or worse.

With kind regards
Tamar
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Hello Claude
No problem mate, its always good procedure to have ones conviction challenged from time to time.
After 7 years of DiSCA GT3 racing (ok actually 5 years due to Covid19) with events run on rubber and sponge tires i.m.o. using Procomp sponge wheels is still the best option for GT3 when it comes to hand out tires.

Is it the perfect option? no, but in recent years most of its shortcomings, the High(er) costs and higher wear rate compared to rubber tires, have been attended too.
I.m.o the higher costs were never a problem, they were a small price to pay for both competitor and organizer alike to have a trued, good, equal and uniform hand out tire/wheel combination for a high level competition event.

With kind regards
Tamar
Sure Tom be my guest, only make sure to add or mention which and who's car it is in your post...as we're both using the same #23 Nissan body.
Sort of to avoid the "Confused? ...you won't be after watching the next episode of...."馃槄

With kind regards
Tamar
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