SlotForum banner
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,767 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Slot rally/raid regs - where are we these days?
Do you, or would you prefer, to separate cars by performance such as 'Stock' and 'Pro'?
Yes2184.00%
No416.00%
Other (please describe in the thread)00.00%
Do you, or would you prefer, to permit modification from 'box standard' configuration?
No - except removing magnets312.00%
Consumable items - tyres, guides and braids only1560.00%
Free but with controls on motor rpm and similar parameters520.00%
Limit the magnetism of the motor00.00%
Completely free28.00%
Other (please describe in the thread)00.00%
How do you define a slot rally car?
It is a scale model of a rally car2184.00%
It's got a co-driver so it must be a rally car28.00%
It fits the regulations so it's in14.00%
Other (please describe in the thread)14.00%
Do you have, or would you prefer, specific rules on appearance?
Yes - it must be a genuine rally livery or a convincing fantasy scheme and a good model1352.00%
Yes to a point - but I'm not fussed about correct wheels or colour schemes936.00%
No - if it fits the regulations it's in312.00%
Other (please describe in the thread)00.00%
Would you allow a rally car with co-driver, livery etc. to compete in a saloon or GT class?
Yes - no problem416.00%
Yes - but I'd think it was weird728.00%
No - it's a rally car1040.00%
If it fits the regulations it's in416.00%
Other (please describe in the thread)00.00%
Slot rally car motors/gearing should be...
Inline416.00%
Anglewinder00.00%
Sidewinder00.00%
Free choice2184.00%
Models of sports/GT cars and 'homologation specials' - run them as 'Stock', 'Pro' or separate?
It depends on how they ran in 1:1 rallying1560.00%
Keep them separate624.00%
Chuck 'em all in!00.00%
If it fits the regulations it's in416.00%
Other (please describe in the thread)00.00%
Mainstream manufacturers have all-but dropped rallying, leaving resin kits, specialist firms and 3D printed upgrades. Where should these cars be classed?
Stock - if they're built to an agreed spec, why not run with older cars?416.00%
Pro - they're usually even with NSR, MSC/Scaleauto etc.832.00%
Modified/separate class - they don't compare to mass-produced cars1248.00%
Other (please describe in thread)14.00%
Where do you run your slot rally cars?
On the club track as a racing class00.00%
On special stages - they're rally cars!1560.00%
Wherever and however we can1040.00%
What would your ideal set of rally classes look like?
Accurate model rally cars divided by era1352.00%
Accurate model rally cars divided by performance832.00%
Fast... and that is all14.00%
If it's in the regs it's in - may the most creative mind win312.00%
Other (please describe in the thread)00.00%
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,767 Posts
I've just done a post on the Farnham club blog about rally classes - primarily ours, which have become rather fluid in terms of eligibility. You can read it here but it's not essential.

As was noted this week with the NSR Mosler that has appeared at one club, people are getting more creative in terms of what qualifies as a rally car. For those of us who enjoy running rally and raid cars in competition, what are the preferences that you have? Box standard cars from major manufacturers are rare but resin kits are plentiful - can they coexist?

Our club's rules used to be based on Slot Rally GB and they worked very well. Now it's getting a bit vague and all sorts of things are creeping in - although we're not quite at this stage yet:

zdHzN8V.jpg

How is everyone else doing? What's changed for better or worse? What makes for a successful category that everyone enjoys? All thoughts welcome...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,155 Posts
Hi Nick.
Slot Rally GB was a great Series.
Gareth Jex, a member of your esteemed Club was the driving force behind the championship with multi classes to keep everyone happy.
He decided to stand down a few years ago, and although valiant efforts were made to continue some sort of 'National' Series, it's time had passed
These days the only 'open' proper Slot rally events are held at venues such as Wye Valley Club and they seem to get reasonable turn outs for
these 'stand alone' competitions.
Towards the end of SRGB, it was becoming much more difficult to have proper sensible structured classes, as many makes had either gone fully
'toy' or the opposite, with fully 'Pro' models. Efforts were made to get the big hitters such as Scalextric into the formula, but this did not
prove popular with entrants. Rules for just about anything to do Slot Racing/Rallying will always be difficult but at the moment our hobby faces a much bigger problem.
Lack of interest and too much divergence.
Regards Bill.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
870 Posts
Hi Nick,

My opinions on each point as follows..

I wouldn't have stock and pro, just all in, my opinion is that you get the best car you can and go with it.

I voted Free choice on mods, but I would put rules in, I'd like to be able to change gearing mainly.

Yes it should look like a rally car and have preferably have co-driver, but if it looks like a rally car and does t have a co-driver it's not a deal breaker for me, pikes peak drivers generally don't have co-drivers for example.

No, GT cars and rally cars should be kept well away from each other, saying a Mosler is a rally car because one once competed in a tarmac hill climb does not make it a rally car, same for Porsche's even though they are more used in rally's.

I think 3D and custom stuff is a hard one. Hard to say unless you have a completely custom Class. I would like to see a Class where we can make custom cars with 3D parts, but not specifically a Rally Class.

I like the fact we have our classes in era's, this one rule works best out of all our rally rules.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,577 Posts
Here's a thought : If you had a non-running car, and repaired it with over the counter parts (by necessity these may have to different from the car manufacturer) We are just talking, wheels,tyres, axles etc. Not motors! .... Would this constitute a "modified car"...?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,155 Posts
Yes.

It would be by definition 'modified'.

A non running model would have to be repaired with the same parts as original, with the exceptions of 'free choice items' usually; braids, lead wire, body screws, axle spacers.

Tyres can sometimes be in this free list as well, but that is much more contentious.

Regards Bill.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Why not run a class system like they do in BTRDA rallies?

N for standard cars (box stock or using 1 motor and tyre option)

B for anything that fits within the safety and build rules for rallying (anything goes pretty much within reason...)

Interesting suggestion to exclude Porsches - a Porsche won the East Africa Safari late last year; I guarantee a 6R4 wouldn't even complete that event... Why exclude cars that have a huge rallying heritage? The German championship was won a couple of years back by a GT3.

I'm confused by this attitude to GT cars in rallying; they're out there, they add spectacle and excitement to real rallies (making big holes in the scenery on occasions it must be said) so why is scale rallying getting all precious about them? If someone is daft enough to rally an Aston or Lambo (in Holland) in real life then why can't they be used in scale rallying?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,365 Posts
To follow on from Erik, we have simple rules for our forthcoming 1/43 Little Monte Carlo Rally proxy.:

Class 1: 1/43 scale model of any actual car that competed in the Monte Carlo Rally between 1950 and 1986.

Plastic or resin bodyshell, chassis and running gear free, but concours points count as part of overall results.

Class 2: Any Carrera GO or SCX Compact RTR RALLY car.

Swivel guide, urethane rear tyres and added weight are the only mods allowed.

Regards, Lloyd.

pp A car that is super quick on a race track will have no advantage at all on this purpose built rally track. In fact low and wide are the opposite to what is needed on this RALLY track.
 

·
Phil B.
Joined
·
3,763 Posts
We`ve been running slot rallies at Wye Valley club consistantly since 2001 and were lucky to be included in the acclaimed Slot Rally GB National Championship and latterly Slot Rally UK.

In the good old days we were able to run more stages with less classes due to the limited number of eligible cars from manufacturers and the rules were simple and effective.

As slot technology, choice of models and spares changed, whilst good for the hobby, it proved a nightmare for organisers having to increase the classes and change rules to accommodate more cars with higher specification.

Sub classes with virtual out of the box rules were the way to go but sadly not popular with the top drivers who prefered the Hi tec route.

Gareth built up Slot Rally GB to a high profile national championship and I can`t thank him enough for his time and effort, sadly having to implement so many class and rule changes that I suspect rang the death knell.

Slot Rally UK ran in it`s wake but as Bill says the interest wained considerably, even now with our yearly effort we only achieve around twenty five loyal entrants compared to forty five in it`s heyday.

For me, I`d like to see an event run with a list of eligible cars and manufacturers in say three classes, Classic, 80`s and Modern with very limited mods, which I hope could weed out the Hi tec stuff.

We will of course continue to run our annual event at Wye Valley later this year and welcome new and returning rallyists.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,577 Posts
I think that for "Stock" the cars should be de-magnetised but otherwise unaltered. For "Pro" then limited modifications should permitted, on the pre visor that only threaded tyres are permitted. There are too many "No holes barred" categories in slot racing.
I do agree about GT cars: The Porsche 911(including 934/935 variants) is an iconic rally car! :p
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,767 Posts
Some good thoughts here, thank you. Also very heartening to see that there's still so much eagerness for slot rallying. Sadly so far Wye Valley is one that I've always had a clashing family commitment for... but fingers crossed that can be sorted out before too long.

Defining 'stock' and 'pro' does need to be done I think, particularly at open events if you want to retain that inclusiveness. There has to be an entry level for the 'lads and dads', for members of host clubs and just generally for folk who do minimal tuning to turn up and be competitive - or at least not completely out-gunned before their own talents come into play - otherwise you lose them.

At a club level we're struggling because the divide has been blurred... if not entirely erased. More so in the rally categories than any other. Every single class has cars that are kitted out with better quality materials for the job and/or a more liberal interpretation of scale. Keeping them separate penalises nobody - neither the guys who have invested in 'Pro' cars of this nature or those who want to run simple RTR kit. We do it with NSRs in Classic Le Mans and we've held back Slot.It DTMs and Policar F1s until there are enough of them to make a good and varied class of their own. Sometimes cars pop up that are just too quick - like the Avant Mirage in 70s Le Mans - and their owners voluntarily stop running them because it's too big a gap back to the rest of the class.

When it comes to GT cars, I'd have no problem with Porsche 911s in Classic or Eighties as they were in 1:1 in period. But they are separate in modern 1:1 rallying. R-GT is a class but it's been single car entries on almost all of the 16 international rallies that accepted them, of which all but two were Supercup Porsches with a bit of beefing-up that took part in tarmac rallies only. No gravel rallies have been attempted, and there's a lot of difference between a 'stock' 997 GT3 and the NSR version.

Personally, I agree completely with making the layout of inline/sidewinder/anglewinder free choice provided that the manufacturer's own specification isn't changed. I don't see much difference from one layout to the other anyway, unless the motor in question is very magnetic.

Looking forward to the rally revival!
 

·
Matt Tucker
Joined
·
3,549 Posts
I am a great believer in the cyclic nature of all things.

Slot rallying on a wider scale will return, the underlying passion is there. Both Wye Valley and IoM have annual events that have continued unabated year after year, is testament to the fact. Just needs someone with the desire and organisational skills to put it together.
 

·
Dave Capelen
Joined
·
2,773 Posts
Hi guys

For what it's worth, here in the IoM we have changed the original Slot Rally GB rules to move with the times and this is what we have class-wise,

for the Standard Classes:-

Standard Classes

"....These rules apply to the specified list of Ready to Run cars, in the Manx Slot Rally Standard Class Defined Car List -2018, and apply along with the General Rules. All sub-classes within this section are for Ready to Run cars ONLY. No Pro cars or adjustable motor mounts, metal wheels, lightweight bodies etc.

Classic (Pre 1980 standard slot rally car)

SCX Class (specified list of cars)
Ninco Class (specified list of cars)
Scalextric Class (specified list of cars)
Other Manufacturers (specified list of cars)

80's (1980 - 1989 standard slot rally car)

SCX Class (specified list of cars)
Ninco Class (specified list of cars)
Scalextric Class (specified list of cars)
Other Manufacturers (specified list of cars)

Modern 2WD (2WD standard slot rally car)

SCX Class (specified list of cars)
Ninco Class (specified list of cars)
Scalextric Class (specified list of cars)
Other Manufacturers (specified list of cars)

Modern 4WD (4WD standard slot rally car)

SCX Class (specified list of cars)
Ninco Class (specified list of cars)
Scalextric Class (specified list of cars)
Other Manufacturers (specified list of cars)

Standard Class Rules

These are for Standard Ready to Run cars listed in the Manx Slot Rally Standard Class Defined Car List - 2018 only.
Changes allowed: If it doesn't say it in this section, or in the General Rules, it is NOT allowed.
2WD cars must run as 2WD, and 4WD cars must run with their standard 4WD running gear.
Bodies must be hard plastic or resin and may not be altered. Interiors must be the original hard plastic ones, and may not be altered in any way except to add a navigator, if just a driver is present in the original interior.
There should be no metal wheels or adjustable motor mounts in this class. Wheels must remain the standard plastic ones. The inner hub of the original wheels, into which the axles fit, may be strengthened with a coat of super glue or a plastic/metal collar
Weight can be added inside the chassis only, and must be secured.
Guide can be changed to a Ninco sprung guide, or a Scalextric sprung guide, but only if changes do not need to be made to the standard chassis. Any braid may be used in the guide. Guide wire can be changed to another manufacturer's wire.
Chassis can be trimmed around the edges by a maximum of 1mm to allow body rock. No chassis bracing allowed.
Metal Pinions (of the same number of teeth) can replace standard plastic ones.
No changes to the spur gears allowed, unless individual authorisation is given by the full Slot Rally sub-committee.
Motors can be changed for similar type ones from the original manufacturer only, provided this does not need any changes to the chassis.
Axle spacers can be used, to reduce side-slop, on both axles, but may not be fixed in place...."
 

·
Dave Capelen
Joined
·
2,773 Posts
As for the IoM Open Classes, here are the specific rules:-

Open Classes

These classes include all Ready-to-Run cars NOT listed in the Manx Slot Rally Standard Class Defined Car List - 2017, and all kit-built, modified and scratch-built cars.

Open Small Classic Class (Pre 1980 slot rally cars with a maximum body width of 54mm and in-line motors only)

Open Classic Class (Pre 1980 slot rally cars) - NB. Classic cars with body width of 54mm or less go into Open Small Classic Class.

Open 80's Class (1980 - 1989 slot rally cars)

Open Modern 2WD Class (2WD slot rally cars)

Open Modern 4WD Class (4WD slot rally cars)

Open Class Rules

These classes include all Ready to Run cars NOT listed in the Manx Slot Rally Standard Class Defined Car List - 2018, and all kit-built, modified and scratch-built cars.

Other than what is in this section, and the General Rules, there are no other restrictions on building and tuning cars for this class.

There is a free choice of chassis, motor, gears, guides, axles, wheels and tyres (No silicon tyres) and all other parts for the running gear, as well as 2WD and 4WD options.

Bodies must be of hard plastic or resin, and must be a good representation of look and scale (no blob bodies).

Weight can be added, as long as it is secured. It can be added below the chassis in this class, as long as it is covered in tape/plastic, to prevent it shorting the tracks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
R-GT is a class but it's been single car entries on almost all of the 16 international rallies that accepted them, of which all but two were Supercup Porsches with a bit of beefing-up that took part in tarmac rallies only. No gravel rallies have been attempted.
WRC Rally Finland 2014 is the most obvious GT3 attempt at a gravel rally, I don't see how a car is only a rally car if it does gravel rallies though...

Car and driver won the German Rally Championship (same events and roads as those shown) the following year. There's a GT3 ready for the Spanish gravel series this year (testing here in Sweet Lamb)
. Belgium has a lovely selection of GT3s - 3 did a rally sprint at the weekend and did very passable impressions of submarines https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28617180_10214008983636656_2868969501980243455_o.jpg?oh=8311c4446d760118527cebd570698523&oe=5B42DDEE There were 4 on the Spa Rally last year

In real rallying the GT3s have to comply with tyre width restrictions (generally round about 9" wide on a max of an 18" rim) so why shouldn't slot cars? Making them run the same size tyre front and rear is also an option and a realistic choice when rallying. Ground clearance should also be higher than for racing. Slicks are outlawed so ban them for GTs. There's plenty of rule adaptations that can help slot cars rallying mimic real rallying.

People are actively trying to get more GTs rallying and slot car rallying is actively trying to stop them
blink.png
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top