[Danlemans]

Hi,

I've noticed that there are a lot of parts out there but I can't find anywhere if they really improve the car.
So here are a couple of questions I'm hoping you can give an answer to

- What's the use of the air pockets in some of the alloy wheels? And does it make a difference compared with normal alloy wheels.
- Why is a Sidewinder the preffered choice for racing instead of the normal long or wide placed engines?
- Is there a guide that is best suited for racing on a ninco track?
- What engine would you guys say is the best engine for speeds between 25/35 km/h (15.5/22 mp/h) with magnet traction from the engine?

I hope that you guys can help me out with this. Even though some of these questions are based on personal taste.

Greets

Danny

 

[f1rem0uth]

Hi, sidewinder is generally proven to be the fastest set up to have when racing, along with the anglewinder set up, sidewinder is generally easier to set up, anglewinder can have some tyre clearance issues with the motor shaft and pinion depending on your tyre needs. In-line has better crown gear clearance, so you can use a wider range of gear ratios, although the clearance thing doesn't apply to all cars. For home use on plastic tracks, your not really going to be noticing the difference between them, most decent brand cars are plenty fast enough for home use.

That's what I know, other people may say different!.

 

[CJA]

Hi Danny.

You ask four questions.

1. The "air" type wheel eg NSR, makes it easier to glue the tyres on only around the edges, rather than across the full hub.
This then allows the centre of the tyre to "rise" slightly when treated with tyre substances.
Of course the same is achieved by normal hubs if care is taken to confine the flexi-cyano only to the edges.
The added flex, and increased diameter on the straight give a performance advantage !!.

2. As far as I am concerned this is not necessarily so !!. I dont know anyone who "prefers sidewinder for racing" !!. It is very much "horses for courses" obviously.
In 1/32 cars, the AW allows wider tyres with the longer more powerful motors. Altho all our top cars currently use Scale-Auto 30k slimlines in AW mode.
Even our fast F1s use Scale-Auto slimlines, tho usually the yellow can 25k version, obviously in-line drive.

3. I can't answer this, I have never driven on Ninco track !!. I suggest you call Pendles or another reputable supplier and ask the question of them.

4. I can't answer this one either, with 50 years experience I have never raced with magnatraction !!. Do you want to ??. I understand that there are closed cans and open cans and some say one has more downforce than another, to the extent that some are banned !!. Strange to quote actual speeds, where did you get those figures, and are they relevant ??.

Always willing to help any beginners in this great and varied hobby,

vbr Chris A.

 

[Danlemans]

Thank for all the replies,

I ment to say anglewinder instead of sidewinder but i guess they're pretty equal.

The numbers and figures are standard race class rules on my slotraceclub, Some cars aren't allowwed to go faster then 27 km'h and I can't always get them under that speed because the engine is too strong.
The reason i was looking for magnatraction as you call it, is that some of the guys at my club are using those engines in a magnetless class and getting about 20 grams of magnet out of them. And that's why they've got quite a big advantage.

@ CJA

We aren't allowed to use lubricants of any sort on the tyres so it's all down to the grip of the tyre itself.
Does the the trick of the glued tyres on the edges of the rim still work when using untreated tyres?

 

[CJA]

Hi Danny,

Wow, amazing, a club that limits slotcars by top speed !!.

How is that done ??.

Do you have a dynamometer at the club ??.

How does that take into account different motor characteristics, or gearing, or wheel size, or the length of the straight for that matter ??.

Wow, amazing. Where in the world are you posting from ?. Never heard of such a thing.

So you are supposed to be magnetless racing, but some guys are using motors with high down force ??.

Seems to me you need to change the club rules and get hold of a downforce checker, available at slotcar suppliers, and rely on that as a control !!.

Of course if you are a new member, that wont be easy, so best action is to use the exact kit that they are using !!.

That way, with a bit of practice you will be potentially competitive, and they can't ban it anyway !!.

vbr Chris.

 

[300SLR]

I'll try and answer 2 and 4

Among the advantages claimed for angle winders and sidewinders are gyroscopic couples, torque reaction and more efficient gearing.
Sidewinders limit tyre width and minimum tyre diameter which may or may not be an issue depending on the type of car. Angle winders can help with both of those.
While angle winders are just about universal in the faster metal chassis cars (except where the rules don't allow it) the choice is much less clear cut in hard body racing.

If you want magnet traction, there is a lot to be said for adding magnets to the chassis (unless the rule prohibit it).

For circuit racing, how much motor power is useful depends a lot on how well the chassis handles and how much grip you are producing. Too much power just makes cars difficult to drive round corners so the car is slower round the lap. Of course drag racing is another story.

 

[Danlemans]

@CJA

I'm from the netherlands, and you can monitor the speed of the slotcar with an dyno that's been designed for RC cars butt can be modified for Slotcars.
I think it's from tamiya but i'm not sure.
It is measured by the wheels rotating on a rolling road, you can adjust the voltage so you can see how fast the car will go when you have a voltage of let's say 13.8 Volts.
In the rulebook it says that my car can't go faster then 27km/h in a certain class at that level of volts. So the cars stay equal.
We also have a magnet marshal at our club but the rules say; no magnet traction except the magnet traction coming of the motor. And then it's just looked at if it's under 25 or something it doesn't break the rules.

Since the last time, i've changed the Merc clk dtm that it's a bit more flexible and i've sanded 3 grooves in the rims and glued the tyres on them to create a sort of home made air pocket rim.

Thanks for all the advice, I will see if i can get any results with it.

 

[RMinAdelaide]

QUOTE (CJA @ 6 Dec 2011, 03:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>1. The "air" type wheel eg NSR, makes it easier to glue the tyres on only around the edges, rather than across the full hub.
This then allows the centre of the tyre to "rise" slightly when treated with tyre substances.
Of course the same is achieved by normal hubs if care is taken to confine the flexi-cyano only to the edges.
The added flex, and increased diameter on the straight give a performance advantage !!.
Chris A.


I am not so sure that was the intentions of holes in hubs.

I would have thought the holes would have AIDED the tire centrifugal expansion, by not creating a vacuum between hub and tire.

Also note the extra folds of their extreme tires. This I believe would aid in this wheel expansion.

Whats others opinions ?

 

[CJA]

Hi RMA,

we tried the Extremes, several of us, not just me, but they are not suited to our track.

Fine for a couple of Banzai laps, but pick-up is very bad, so, over a 3 min heat you are at a disadvantage.

I agree with your comment on the holes in the hubs, I can't see where anybody has said otherwise.

Are you arguing with yourself ??.

vbr Chris A.

 

[Ian B]

QUOTE Does the the trick of the glued tyres on the edges of the rim still work when using untreated tyres?

Gluing and truing the tyres is going to still help as it is balancing your tyres.

I would also be looking at the Scaleauto Motors they have particularly good magnetic strengths

 

[RichD]

Getting back to one of the original questions, using aftermarket parts will not make your cars faster if there is nothing wrong with the stock parts. Cars that have crooked wheels and tires, poorly meshing gears, loose bearings and floppy guide flags are going to benefit more from aftermarket parts. Cars with strong magnets tend to mask problems of that sort, however. In many cases buying aftermarket tires that are made to fit your stock wheels will give you the biggest improvment for the least money. We use aftermarket parts for their greater consistancy and reliability rather than just for lower lap times. It can spoil your whole day if a wheel falls off in the middle of a race.
Using a dyno to measure the cars and then set a maximum allowable speed is a rather novel concept. We have used the now discontinued Kelvin Light Bench to check some of our cars. The cars that we checked all used a spec motor and there was a fairly large spread in the numbers. The cars were all Scalextric Dallaras without magnets and they all used the same silicone tires, that eliminated tire doping from affecting the track performance. We ran all of the cars around a skid pad in both directions. A car could be fast in one direction and slow in the opposite direction. On the track there was a huge spread in the lap times. The slowest cars could get lapped several times during a 3 minute heat. The fastest car on the dyno was not the fastest car on the track. If you included the dyno and skid pad numbers together you could predict the order of the track times very well. We run just one classc where motors are unrestricted and in that case, even on a track with a very long straight a car that is a rocket in a straight line is not going to win races unless it is also hooked up in the corners.

 

[RMinAdelaide]

QUOTE (CJA @ 9 Feb 2012, 19:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi RM,

we tried the Extremes, several of us, not just me, but they are not suited to our track.

Fine for a couple of Banzai laps, but pick-up is very bad, so, over a 3 min heat you are at a disadvantage.

Then they are for qualifying only then.

QUOTE I agree with your comment on the holes in the hubs, I can't see where anybody has said otherwise.

Are you arguing with yourself ??.

vbr Chris A.

Doubt it.

Did you read Danlemans first dash point.

QUOTE - What's the use of the air pockets in some of the alloy wheels? And does it make a difference compared with normal alloy wheels.

QUOTE 1. The "air" type wheel eg NSR, makes it easier to glue the tyres on only around the edges, rather than across the full hub.
This then allows the centre of the tyre to "rise" slightly when treated with tyre substances.
Of course the same is achieved by normal hubs if care is taken to confine the flexi-cyano only to the edges.
The added flex, and increased diameter on the straight give a performance advantage !!.