[moped rider]

Jonny has got me rather excited by the prospect of using slower cars at his club.

I hope more clubs take his lead and move out of the fast lane and start to promote slower more basic racing with standard cars.

For tuning duffers like me this is a winning strategy!

I think clubs should set a "lap time standard" for their circuits and any cars that exceed the standard should not be permitted to race.

The club referee can check the car out and scrutineer it by running a few laps to provide consistency and you know as a club member that if you turn up with a car that is driven by the referee faster than the standard then that car is banned for the evening.

If you happen to be a better driver than the referee then is does not then matter as long as your car has passed the time scrutineering for the evening.

This in my mind has to lead to very exciting and much closer club racing and cuts out the need for all this tuning.

All the cars used at the club will be proven to be capable of lapping within nano seconds of each other by the independent referee. You only have yourself to blame then if you are a race duffer.

The challenge then is to create a car that matches your driving style rather than to just create the fastest car.

Moped

 

[Mecoprop]

A nice ideal, really, but unfortunately not very practical.
I like the idea of motor limitations such as the ever popular NC1.
However, the club referee or what ever is only human and his/her ability to drive a variety of cars consistently enough to make fair judgement is highly questionable. It would have to be a masochist who would take that job on and he/she would need many hours just to run the tests.

Incidentally, a nanosecond is 1 billionth of a second!

 

[goldfish_samurai]

The motors could be checked electronically to make sure they are running identically couldn't they?

 

[jonny s]

Yes they can be.

I`m not going to wade into this one except to say that it is already happening. You cannot get the cars to perform exactly the same because of manufacturing tolerances but by keeping cars on the same lane throughout and having prepared spares to replace broken cars, it makes for vey close racing. It`s not something that you may want to do all the time but in a busy club such as ours where so much goes on during the week, then it can fit in well. It does come down to driver skill in this type of racing.

Nothing better in life than being told you cannot do something that you are already doing!

That`s not aimed at you Meco as many people have said, even at the club that it cannot be practical but seeing is believing. At the mo it`s the Scalex Mini that we are running but Nascars are also a popular choice.

 

[ProfFate]

Checking the motors electronically to match??????

Nope.

Curious how often Moped comes up with these ideas. The underlying assumption is that slot car racing is no fun NOW.

Look, elsewhere guys talk about making slot car racing a more realistic RACING experience. Car prep IS part of racing even in a Box Stock Spec Car class. Racing is a TEAM effort, but in most of our cases we are the whole team.

But to me, car prep is where I find the advantage to compensate for my lack of driving talent. Encourageing novices is done by first loaning them a good easy to drive well prepared car, then TEACHING them how to do it themselves. Even going through the effort to go over the track foot by foot to show them where the time is made. Even taking time off from YOUR track time to watch the newbie drive YOUR GOOD CAR, and coach.
"Dumbing down" the cars until it seems that everyone no matter what(as with NC1s) will finish within 6 inches on the same lap does not work in the long run. What always happens is that when inches become important, some guy getting a little out of sorts and tapping another will cause an uproar and hard feelings.

Fate
like Moped, always shy and humble with my opinions.

 

[jonny s]

Moped is not alone.

The motors fitted to every car are tested on the Kelvin Light test bench to make sure that they rev within a set tolerance.

What you describe as a method of helping newbies Prof is bang on but every now and then it is interesting to try something like I described earlier. Yes it`s difficult but it does work and ensures that people understand where their level of driver skill is measured relative to other club racers.

Nothing wrong with NC 1 powered cars. We run a very enjoyable 24 hour race using this motor and the cars are not slow and are at least reasonably closely matched. It`s only an idea, but if people are doing it and enjoying it then that`s good enough for me.

 

[Race-Jan]

QUOTE (Mecoprop @ 30 Apr 2004, 16:43)I like the idea of motor limitations such as the ever popular NC1.
We do...

running a class with NC-1 that is

required: Ninco rally car, box standard with:

ninco magnet, pulling max 45 grams on our scales
ninco wheels (Touring-car wheels allowed)
ninco 19x10 tyres (trued, not glued, slicks and profiled allowed)
NO lead
9 x 27 gearing, axles, pinions and contrates original Ninco

body rock is allowed, but shaving/cutting chassis and/or body in any way is not

all in all good for real close racing and a lot of fun

 

[GRAH1]

QUOTE I think clubs should set a "lap time standard" for their circuits and any cars that exceed the standard should not be permitted to race.

Great idea Moped why not leave the car on the shelf as well then you will be sure not to exeed the lap times , or how about a miniature gatso camera then we can give every offender a speeding ticket .

Get real, racing is about going fast otherwise we would all be building scale road systems .

Stock motor classes are a great idea but the idea is to get as much performance out of the thing as possible , The best and most competitive racing I have ever had was the first year of BSL when Bolton club orginised it every one got a standard sealed motor at the start of each event and that was what you raced your speed relied on your skill as a driver and the set up of your chassis rather like the proposals for the carrera shoot out race which will provide very close even racing.

 

[a Bill]

When we are just looking to compare driver skill we use club cars. At whatever friends house we're racing at there will be four cars prepped as identically as possible. These cars never leave that location and are maintained by the same person when possible. This way nobody has to worry about the other guy tweaking his car a bit during the off period between race nights. These cars can be lexan rockets or box stock, it doesn't matter as long as they are all the same, one car per lane.

Sometimes we take it a step further and instead of the cars rotating lanes with the driver, the car is always in the same lane. So if one car is running quite well that evening (for whatever reason) then everyone gets to drive it on the same lane.

I hope that made sense. I'm sure it's a commonly done thing. It also allows new people to race immediately if they are interested instead of finding out about the class one night, ordering a car for the class then finally getting to race it a week later.

 

[Larry LS]

Another idea for stock type racing is to use a break out time. Set this up by getting the best performing of the cars to be used and run its best lap. Take a time that is 90% of the best time and use that as the breakout time.

That means if the driver and his car go faster than the time set, they lose that lap count and a bell or buzzer sounds to announce that some one broke out. That way there is no advantage to searching for the best performing motor out of a batch. Or no sense in trying to cheat somehow to make the car faster. Going faster loses you a lap out of every two run. No advantage to going too fast. It's and incentive to slower drivers to improve their skills so that they can get close to the break out time as they improve.

Depends on your timing system being able to do this. But of course the new digital systms coming should be able to do this if the ones we have now can.

 

[moped rider]

Its interesting to watch the devide on this issue.

There are the folk for whom tuning is everything and speed matters at all costs and there are the folk for whom close exciting racing matters regardless of the speed.

The issue with racing where speed is everything at all costs is that I guarantee you end up with cars that can have 10-20% best time differences in a race and in my mind I know I have lost before I even start the race with the cars I turn up with.

Where the cars have been checked out and vetted by a scrutineer beforehand to ensure that this best time difference is 5% or less then I enter the ring which much more of a buzz as does everybody else as we all have a chance. This of course is more likely the case with home racing.

I will tell you what GRAH1 and Prof Fate. Next time we meet up we will swap cars and you can race with my car and I will race with yours. Alternatively how about simply racing with a few Minis that I bring along. Not quick maybe but all with very similar performance.

And Prof Fate, don't say its unlikely to happen cos you never know!

My feeling is the Prof Fate will be drawn to SPORT World and will become a big international star in the SPORT World internet circus!

We will all be trying to beat him with his "ghost" cars that he has created for the Scalextric-USA SPORT World league!

I digress but this is going to be fun. Its up to you but if you have the right attitude it is going to be FUN!!! :boing :boing

Moped

 

[BEEJAY7]

Hi Guys

There always has been speed differentials between different classes of racing.

In the ECRA days the F1's were always the slowest as they were limited to inline designs with a maximum width of 1.25". Next were Saloon, any driveline type but chassis width limited to 2.5 ". Fastest of all was 1/24th where almost anything went within the width limit, (sorry can't remember what it was!).

The whole point is if you race the same class of cars within a given agreed set of rules you will have great racing, even allowing people to do there own "little tweaks". If it seems that they have an advantage in racing it won't stay like that for long as others will very soon copy.

You can have just as much fun racing non mag ninco classics with NC1's as you can racing the latest Fly Lolas as long as you race like for like.

Speed is relative...just enjoy it for what it is!.

Regards

Alan

 

[Tropi]

A simple question:

Will these 'slow' cars have magnets or not?

 

[Difflock]

QUOTE (jonny s @ 30 Apr 2004, 17:12)Moped is not alone.

That IS a scary thought!!

I, for one am against "dumbing down" it happens far too much in real life, let alone in one of my main hobbies. Ford saw fit to dumb down the original RS Turbo Escort - slower, gentler, lost it's edge. Similarly, when the Sierra Cosworth gained 4wd. I had a friend who worked at a Ford dealership. A punter turned up with a 4wd Cossie and suggested that there was something wrong with the car. My friend took it for a test run up Preston docks and came back - nothing wrong with it was the diagnosis. The punter said did you drive it hard, thrash it even. My friend, one of the few who actually respect customer's cars said no he hadn't thrashed it (truth!). The punter said take it out again and USE it. OK

. My friend brought the car back ticking and creaking, smelling of hot brakes etc. having tried his best to lay ******* up and down the dock road and tackle the roundabouts too. Still nothing wrong. The punter says.. THAT'S IT, THE CAR'S JUST TOO SAFE AND TOO BORING!!
Turns out the guy used to have an RS500 !! so no wonder he thought it was no good!

Anyway, back to the little cars. We had a great F1 night at Slot Tech. The cars are definitely not slow, but there was some hellishly close racing going on, myself included (for once!). If that sounds like having the cake & eating it...well it was

I suppose I'd better not admit that I was a proponent of a 1/32 GATSO, especially after GRAH1's comment

However, I was thinking of a Cops & Robbers scenario in which high SPEED pursuit would be invloved rather than a small model roadway

There's an old fighter pilot adage that "Speed is Life". I agree, speed leads to a social life within slot racing, especially, as has been suggested, that the tuning gurus take the time to pass the knowledge on (after a while...

)

Mark.

 

[jonny s]

To answer Tropi`s question...both. At Phoenix every class has a max rev limit set for the motors for each class and it works. The point has been described best by Beejay racing`like with like` is in my opinion a good way to proceed. Whatever the solution I believe that each class raced at our club should not only be as tight within the group as possible bit also distinct from other classes so that the racing each week is different and above all very,very close. I believe that this year has been our best season ever. Not only is the racing the closest I have ever seen but new lads are coming thru fast and taking the wins too. The car preparation that we allow is simple tuning to mainly box standard cars and it works well. The rules are simple enough and the most important factor is that experienced drivers are helping the new racers.

 

[Intergrali]

Actually Diff, the S2 Escy turbo had the same 132bhp as the S1, thing was they put a small turbo on and upped the compression ratio and a new 'box was thrown in with different ratios to the S1. all this along with a heavier body.

anyway, equality cannot be achieved, end of story. People moan because they cant beat me with a better car than mine.. my words "learn to drive"

thing is jonny, would you have checked my vectra had it been run? no.. you wouldnt, scrhewed!

 

[Difflock]

QUOTE (Intergrali @ 30 Apr 2004, 22:15)Actually Diff, the S2 Escy turbo had the same 132bhp as the S1, thing was they put a small turbo on and upped the compression ratio and a new 'box was thrown in with different ratios to the S1. all this along with a heavier body.
The end result was the same though, Inte, a dumbed down, softer car for the great un-grooved (wonderful terminolgy - who do i pay the royalties to?)

Mark.

 

[jonny s]

So that`s your secret Inte ? It`s all in the `LEAN`. (Don`t you go back and edit that now!)

Would I have checked your Vectra? At the GT event? No. At a club nite the entire field goes into Parc Ferme and is checked by a chief scrutineer, Mark Andrews who, as a non racing neutral is best placed to head a small (weekly changing) team. Now you just knew I`d have an answer didn`t you!

Just put bar code software and a bar code scanner onto the computer at race control so each car is marked upon entry to the race meet and you cannot change anything without seeing a scrutineer. The bar code can be scanned at random intervals too. Sounds extreme ? Well since we started scrutineering this season, a fair amount of naughtiness has been revealed! Say no more, no names no pack drill.

 

[TSRF]

QUOTE The motors fitted to every car are tested on the Kelvin Light test bench to make sure that they rev within a set tolerance.
It has nothing to do with power and torque. A lower revving motor may be much faster on track than a high-revving unit.
If you want machines that look right, function properly and give intense driving satisfaction while providing as fair racing as should be, why don't you check with AB SlotSport and Andy Browne-Searle? He runs a series in UK that is really liked by the players. Low pressure and low cost, with Concours d'Elegance and great racing.

"TSRF, The Final Solution!"

Adolf H. Pea

 

[jonny s]

Sounds interesting. The KL machine does a reasonable job and would show up motors that have been tampered with. Rewound? It`s just a quick check during setting up of the cars but I`d be interested in this other `kit` Mr. P