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Damien Straw
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

Here is a screenshot of the proposed track that I am working on, it's now somewhat larger than the track I posted here some months ago and since then I have done very little about it having had major earthquakes in Christchurch as well as moving out of Christchurch recently too.



I am still a while from building it as it will be going into the garage roof of our next house to be lowered when we want to use it and we have just bought the land and aren't quite ready to start building the house yet. Having read the various posts about the deletion of Scalextric CLC's from their range I thought I had better get the track plan finished so I can get the parts before they are obsolete.

My question is, for racing purposes, do you think the 2 CLC's (not the ones in the chicane) are the right ones? Should they be in/out or out/in? I put the one before the pit entry as in/out which means you'd have to select the pit lane entry lane at the chicane if you needed it or go to the outside and have a fast entry to the straight and also avoid the tighter side of the R1's at the first corner. I'm not so sure about the other one though.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I've tried to have a mix of corners which start tight and open up and vice versa. I think I have a design which will be a challenge enough to keep me interested for some time as well as being big enough for multiple cars. I plan to power the flippers, copper tape the rail and use SSDC.

I have a Pro GT set which I started with and just bought 6 extra straights last time I set it up to test how the cars were on a longer run and also placed single straights between corners to get a feel of how manageable it is to have a short burst of acceleration between the corners. Next time I get it out I'll get some R1's, 3's and 4's to test some other kinds of corners too. It's good to have some time before my build to experiment and test! I've been testing with and without magnets and I must say it is very different and each style has it's charm but somehow I prefer it without as you can see more of the action as it all happens a little slower. Interestingly though I found that an MRRC Toyota Celica I have with magnet is the most enjoyable as it has awesome speed yet needs to be carefully tiptoed around the bends compared to the Scaley cars with magnets. I've been truing tyres and wheels, oiling tyres and lubing gears to see the difference and am quite amazed at how well these cars can run!

Once again, any advice would be great!

Cheers,
Damo.
 

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Hi Damo.

Difficult question...
...my inclination would be to ALWAYS have the option of pitting, right before the pit-entrance.

Personaly I like the CLC's better, but they are a one-trick-pony compared to the straights.
Easy to choose straight-ones...
...4 different CLC's.
Maybe that's what puts people off them; they certainly flow better than straights IMO.

I think if I were doing digital, I'd be thinking like you, and hoarding a few of these baby's away.
You just know that in a couple of years when they're all gone...
...they'll be on eBay for MILLIONS !

Personaly for a permanent layout of your size, I'd be tempted to dump a few of those straights, & bung in more CLC's.

Mmmm...

Cheers

Si.
 

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Damien Straw
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562 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I too would like to have an LC before the pit entrance but if I had the last CLC the other way round (out to in) there would be no option after the chicane to get into the outside lane and avoid cars which would be leaving the pits and I think there'd be a few pit lane exit crashes happening. I think having situations where you needed to use it to avoid cars you could see where in the pits and would be coming out in front of you would add something to the challenge of racing.

Cheers,
Damo.
 

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Hi Damo

You have in fact, it appears, answered your own question then...

...However.

I don't understand what you mean at all, about pit-lane-exit crashes...

...as you have TWO FURTHER changers, indicated on your plan, BEFORE the pit-lane-exit.

???

If I were racing the track; Looking for cars piting, whilst going through the chicane on the back-straight would be the last thing on my mind.
If there are any cars piting that might be hit at the pit-exit, change lanes on the main straight, NOT half-way round the back of the circuit; by the time you've got your head round that one, they will probably have exited in a cloud of gasoline fumes anyhow !

Cheers

Si.

Still rec. you could drop some straights for a couple more CLC's on the plan.

Also, this may not be the case if drivers simply don't look, but...
...cars exiting the pits should LOOK WHERE THEIR GOING, not come charging out regardless.
It is up to cars to exit the pits carefully; not for cars on the main-straight to slow down or change lanes to avoid crashes.
 

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Damien Straw
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562 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes that's right but high speed changes on the xlc's can be a bit risky too so I would avoid them preferably. They probably shouldn't even be there but I couldn't help it!

Cheers,
Damo.
 

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Hi Damo

Positioning lane changers is def. tricky.
People always seem to have a couple on a main straight.
Putting them at the end of straights, at least means your braking anyway.

It's not the same as digital, but check out 'AC2 slot racing' ( sorry no link, Google it ).
These guys race 2 cars in 1 slot, DO CHANGE LANES, but seem to recomend only 1 lane changer in the circuit !
WHAT ?..... ONE ? ....yep.
They say on a chicane before the pits is best.
Where does a lot of overtaking happen on a real race track, often just before the pits ( not only though ).

I think what I'm trying to say is a few WELL PLACED changers with good-flow & low de-slot rate, are better than loads in less than optimum positions.
If you know your gonna have to slow down on the main-straight not to de-slot on a changer, why bother even trying.
It may just seize-up with lack of use.

I think you HAVE to design a good digital track AROUND the changers, not put them in afterwards.
That's what I mean about more CLC's, but in good positions

Cheers

Si.
 

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CLC's generally flow better as in to out in most situations. The flow of the radius is most natural that way.
 

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Here is the White Lake F1 Ring AC2Car video... (link)

If that does not get your heart racing, nothing will!

Cheers!
 

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Hi Damo

Check out 'Mr. Flippant' in the members list ( sorry no good with links ).
He has an SSD layout of quite a size.
He has 5 lane-changers.
3 straights...
...and 2 curved ( both out to in ).
They are placed at exellent points on the track IMO.
I am sure he gave the design placement much thought.
If he'd chucked in another 1 or 2 as well, there's no doubt in my mind it would have been over-kill.
Also if he'd dropped even 1 from the plan he would of lost an oportunity.
Balance was the result I think.

There is a general way of thinking in life that MORE is BETTER.
But often LESS of better QUALITY, wins out.

I'm sure there are other good examples of SSD changer placement out there...
...but Mr. Flippant has def. reached an optimum balance of variety & position, with his changers IMO.

Cheers

Si.
 

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Greg Gaub
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I agree that any more LCs in my track would be overkill. Interestingly enough, I don't think there are any more places that any would fit, except possibly on the front straight, and the one there is the least used, I think. I did actually get rid of one, recently. The CLC in turn 1. Too often, sliding cars would miss the sensor and not change, or worse, change when they didn't want to. Since it was also the LEAST used LC, I pulled it, if only to get rid of a couple dead spots in turn 1, and to reduce the carnage at race start. It has helped. Most of my others are placed to enable cars to choose the outside lane of my 3 different R1 sections, and then another to enable pit entrance at the last moment. I kept that one as an out-to-in for that reason.

On my party track, I have all my CLCs as in-to-out, and I design the track in such a way as to flow as well as possible, especially considering that it's mostly those unfamiliar with slot racing. With some borders to keep the sliders on (but still allow the crashers to come out), I think it would work really well. I just need to get some borders for it.

Damo, with regards to your track, I would probably simplify the lane changing a little. The one before the pit would be better as out-to-in for last minute pit entrance. One XLC in the front straight for pit-exit-avoidance is enough. Also, just one or two XLC in the pits should be good. Three so close together will be hard to maneuver through correctly, even at low speeds. And right behind the pits, either the XLC (placed just before the turn), OR the CLC, but not both. One makes the other redundant. For the back straight, I might move the racing line to the right with a straight run up to it. That'll be a make or break section. Those in the racing line will do well and maintain good speed, but those in the wrong lane will have to slow down a lot for the sharp turns. Having it so close to the exit of the turn in the top left increases the risk of sliding cars missing the sensor and therefore the racing line.
 

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First off: nice track design!

On the XLC's: don't put them in the "middle" of straights. It's just not realistic. IRL (in real life) there is only overtaking in the middle of a straight when the car in front has been given the blue flag. (being lapped, so he HAS to yield.) (Even with DRS, (talking strictly F1 here) IF the FIA has got their act together, the DRS zone SHOULD be set so that the overtaking car can be ABEAM the car in front when they hit the BRAKING zone. (not like it sometimes was in last season (2011), that the car already completed the overtake well BEFORE the braking zone.

So put the XLC's at the end of straights, JUST before the turn. (envision the track in your mind as if you were driving it in real life, think of where you could outbrake (and thus overtake) the opposition (XLC), and how you would position yourself to be driving the ideal line. (CLC) Think of where you would try to cutoff the track a bit to gain laptime advance. (THIS is where you put the curbstones!!! (see they are there to PREVENT drivers from cutting off track) do NOT put them on the outside of turns as I see so many people do in their race tracks. (Carrera and Ninco tracks are worst, but us Scaley people do that a lot too.) )of course this originates from Scaley as a production oversight, since they should have made the curbs on the outside just plain black...)

As for the pitentry, the last CLC must be from out to in, otherwise you cannot enter the pits anymore.
On the entry itself: I'd go for a cut up CLC (in to Out), that just looks better IMHO. And regarding the 3XLCs in the pit: it's great! True it is difficult to get in the right pit stall (as someone noted before) , but that's part of the fun! (to make it a bit easier, I put a colored strip of tape on the track (corresponding with teamcolor) where you must press the lanechange button to end up in your pit stall. If you still miss it: gotta complete another lap...)(or if the system is setup differently, just stop at another free bay, and refuel)

Regards,
Martin
 

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Mr. Olufsen
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Damo, nice track, I must say. Looking forward to seeing this develop.

Sorry for side-tracking a bit, I know this thread is not about the chicane, but anyway: Even with mag cars there might be enough drifting to cause some lane changing issues. In my own small layout I have a CLC right after an R2/R3 turn and this has made me want to make extra outside sensors (in due course...) following MartinT's excellent how-to. Moving your chicane equal to 3 full straights to the right might prevent some of these issues from occurring going into the chicane. Just a thought, I'm a rookie, Greg and Martin may have more experienced insights to share.

Br,
Christian
 

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Hi Damo
I like the in to out they drive better not a real racing line but the out to in you got to drive alot slower.
but I think you need a out to in before the pits because your not going to remember to change lanes back
at you last clc .
Plus am glad you got 3 xlc in your pits if you have or are getting pit pro you should alter your pit exit abit,
move the bottom corner over half straight take out the s/f and move the pit exit along and join the corner
then refit s/f and another 1/2 track refit your other pit exit along and one xlc put in 1/2 track move xlc along
and put in another 1/2 track now you have somewhere to pit without being on a flipper ,= 4 pits now .
regards ade.
 

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QUOTE (MrFlippant @ 31 Jan 2012, 06:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>On my party track, I have all my CLCs as in-to-out, and I design the track in such a way as to flow as well as possible, especially considering that it's mostly those unfamiliar with slot racing. With some borders to keep the sliders on (but still allow the crashers to come out), I think it would work really well. I just need to get some borders for it.

Missed this one Mr F did you not do a thread ? any photo's so we can see what you did

Michael

ps the best way in any case is to drive the track then make some changes as required
 

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Damien Straw
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562 Posts
Thanks guys, all good info! I have adjusted the plan as far as the chicane goes and just hope there is room for sufficient borders.



Considering the angle of magless cars sliding at the different points I think I could make it work ok. Martin, I agree about the red and white curbs. They look much better in the right places. When I designed this I might (being a newbie) have had some lane change 'buck fever' and added too many. In this plan I have removed one on the straight which I think you all agree was unnecessary. I left the three in the pitlane as I will get three lined up one day and experiment. I guess it might come down to pit lane speed, from what I understand, you can reduce this with SSDC to a fixed slow speed?
I put the PB at the end of the straight in the braking zone after previous advice from MrF if I recall correctly. I am not sure how to re-arrange it to get the XLC closer to it and into the braking zone with the pit lane exit there unless I use some R1's (cut down to single lane) out of the pit lane and have the exit after the first corner as shown below. How will this affect lap counting though as the cars exiting the pits wont be going over the PB sensor? Do I have to wire in another sensor or can it use the Pit Pro sensor?
I haven't changed the top CLC yet, I actually like it the way it is but would even consider making the double CLC as shown here on the forum/ Looks tricky but probably worth it if it worked well.



Cheers,
Damo.
 

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Mr. Olufsen
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1,212 Posts
Damo:
QUOTE Having read the various posts about the deletion of Scalextric CLC's from their range I thought I had better get the track plan finished so I can get the parts before they are obsolete.

I take it you have not bought the pieces yet. My friendly advice would be to get those CLCs now. I"ve been thinking ahead planning for a future larger perm track that would involve CLCs adapted for use in a chicane and pitlane entry. To be on the safe side I ordered a complete set of 4. Only one (1) in to out left in Denmark, so I had to order in the UK from two different places; they are running out, I'm afraid.
/Christian
 

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Greg Gaub
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I've done a couple posts about running races at my kid's school fetes. That's the "party track" I refer to. Since I did another recently, I'll post a photo of the kids having fun, and the layout I ended up using that day.

Damo, If you have Pit-Pro, or any other pit sensing, or even with no pit sensing so long as you use a PC race management system, a lap can be added when a car goes through the pit, or refuels. If you don't use a computer for race management, then those cars will lose a lap by going through the pit on your second layout image.
 

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Damien Straw
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562 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
MrF, I have an old laptop ready and waiting and will get Pit Pro etc so that works out well. I have just been playing with various track pieces to get it as neat as possible in the pit exit and this it what I have now:



It's a mix of inside and outside lanes or R1's and an R2. Get very close to joining up.

Cheers,
Damo.
 

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Greg Gaub
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I would bet that will join up just fine.
You'll need a place to put the Pit-Pro sensors. One of those single lane straights will be perfect for the exit sensor. The entry sensor might be a little trickier given the length of your pit lane, though. Like any other sensor, you don't want cars drifting over them.
 
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