[ol'Deezel]

Proposed track for folding table tennis table, which has been slightly extended.

Givens are level infield/outfield, no up and overs, minimum number of tracks across the join. Scaley digital. I had hoped for something more pace-car friendly, but the R1's kinda kill that part of the plan...

Comments invited.

 

[Grumpy Gaz]

That's a pretty good concept. B) I hope that you will show us progress pictures and updates?

 

[MrFlippant]

If you make the hairpin using R2 for the entry and exit, with only 2 R1 in the center, pace cars can go through a bit faster without having to go to a full R2 turn. You'll have to make a few other changes, but I bet you can get something nice in there.

That said, for pace cars, just use magnet cars, and race against them using a non-mag car.

 

[LittleDany]

I tried a layout without R1 curves, only R2's. But cars will seriously flirt with the edges of the table !

 

[ol'Deezel]

Unfairly did not include in the 'givens' that track joins must coincide with table joins for ease of set-up.

I have managed to ease things somewhat, the R1 curve near the power base is now a R3 - R2 - R1 spiral entry with an R2 exit, although at the expense of the (admittedly short) straight before the crossover. I think I can rationalize my way around this on the basis that the most likely reason to be using the crossover is to enter the pits, and therefore the car should be slowing down....

The R1 exiting the crossover is now an R2, and the R1 hairpin now has a wobbly R2 entry and an R2 exit.

All of which is (I think) functionally better (apart from the reverse curve R2 'wobble') but I think the original is prettier.......

 

[portals999]

Looking good!

Is there a specific reason that you have the APB where it is? Personally I'd move it to the end (lhs), of the bottom straight that has the pit lane?

I like the smoothed out rhs hairpin, however not so keen on the rhs 'loop', this could quite easily be made in to more of a compound hairpin too or a more sweeping exit curve?

How are you sticking own the track?

cheers

 

[MrFlippant]

A track with all R2 will be boring AF. The last thing you want is for every single turn to essentially be the same.

Don't run away from R1 turns. I get the need for speed, but unless you're making a drag strip or a high speed oval with banked turns, you need to slow down. Any good road course will have turns that require drivers to scrub off pretty much all their speed. Even an R1 at the end of a long straight can be managed without crashing. You just have to slow down earlier, and more, than you would for an R2 or wider. You can't take ANY turn at full speed without slowing down from a long straight. If you can, then I don't know why you're bothering to even play this game. How boring and easy would that be? Bleh.

Diatribe aside, the best layouts tend to have a good variety of turns. Different radii from one another, and different radii within the turn itself. Different lengths of straights, as well as one nice, long, straight, as long as you can manage, so you can really "give it the welly" at least once per lap.

But, that's all IMHO. YMMV.

 

[portals999]

If the pacers are having issues with the tighter corners then you can place a small piece of tape over one of the rails on the inner lane just before the corner to help 'coax' the cars around (as they will temporarily lose power when they hit the tape).

I've done this in the past with the R1 at end of my S/F straight (the main track deslot area on my track), but removed it in the end as drivers really should just learn to slow down

....but you can't tell pacers to slow down for specific areas of the track unless you have a RMS!

 

[GRUNZ]

although at the expense of the (admittedly short) straight before the crossover. I think I can rationalize my way around this on the basis that the most likely reason to be using the crossover is to enter the pits, and therefore the car should be slowing down....

The problem is not for the cars that have to pit and hence slowing down to avoid missing the lane change.

The issue is with the cars going at speed: because the scalex XLCs stay in position after a car passes over them, if a car that has to pit lane changes to move to the lane for the pit entrance, the flipper will stay in the "change" position and all the following cars that will miss the sensor will lane change as well independently of whether they want to change or not.

 

[Mr Modifier]

And that is the reason I made the SureChange guide - even on a full power slide your LED still hits the sensor.

We had a pit lane entrance half a straight after a 90 degree R2 - when we went magless we HAD to put the LED on the guide. We didnt make that same mistake with the replacement club track...

 

[ol'Deezel]

Thanks for all the feedback, truly appreciated.

I think I'm getting there.....

I like the spiral curve after the power base much better than the angular arrangement on the original, and that wonky reverse curve entry to the hairpin is gone in place of an R2 easment entry, but just straight out.. The powerbase is where it is because (assuming it's drawn to scale) it won't fit inside the hairpin, and I don't want it hanging over the edge, but if a better arrangement comes to light during building it can be moved. I get the thing about not all R2s, and there are a fair few R3s, but I think I'm getting towards a balance between a drag strip and an endless-hairpin rally track. The left hand board should be fairly fast, the right hand should be a bit more tactical. I hope...

I have a couple of ideas for fixing the track. The table divides into two halves, both of which fold vertical for storage, so nothing is upside-down. I'm hoping that 'friction' from infield/outfield built up to track height with mdf/foamboard/yoga pads/ whateva will be enough, if necessary a sheet of foam rubber can be layed over each half before folding. Not sure, but looking forward to nutting it out...

Anyway here is where it's at, the image file optimistically titled 'final-lol.jpg'...

 

[portals999]

Have you setup the track and run laps yet?

If a car on the inside lane accelerates out of the final corner before the APB and is fishtailing then you might also encounter missed laps, running lots of laps is best way to iron out any potential issues before you commit the track.

Grunz made a good point too, it's not just about not being able to change lanes to get to the pits but if the car in front of you is going slow enough it will initiate a lane change so you might want/need to pit but then you miss the sensor and end up changing lanes (as the sensor is missed and didn't reset XLC to straight), and so miss the pits for that lap which can wreck your race.

I'd suggest removing the APB when storing the track for quite a few reasons, the overhang can easily be fixed with a piece of wood so it's not stressed.

 

[Stevef1964]

Why not separate the the track piece from it's APB? It's been done numerous times and there are "how to's" on here.

You could then put the s/f line track and the APB part anywhere you wished.

 

[slotterkeith]

"..... Id suggest removing the APB when storing the track for quite a few reasons, the overhang can easily be fixed with a piece of wood so it's not stressed.

We have been five years on and off adjusting my layout. It is now complete. The pit lane is in a similar position to yours and the power base overhangs the board edge slightly (10cms including plugs). The plan is to do exactly as portals999 says and build a simple wooden support (with sweeping curved ends). This still has not been done though as there has been absolutely no hint of a problem - hence, strange as it may seem, low priority. We will of course do this before main racing begins.

I have run a different track with a separated power base. This was fine, but initially quite a faff to set up. I cant see why this would be necessary in this particular context as there is no obvious alternative position in which to site it anyway.

It is so much easier to put the cars into place with the start on edge of the table; so I have considered this a given.

In my honest and opinion...

Good luck whatever you decide. It will take time, but is coming together well!

 

[ol'Deezel]

If I shorten the pit the pb can be moved to the obvious spot easily enough, not sure I like this right hand board as much aesthetically, but it does get a straight before the last crossover, easy enough to set it up both ways and run some laps before committing. I have found a local table importer who quite often has 'seconds' when the top has been damaged in transit, which makes them useless for the intended purpose, but significantly cheaper if a perfect surface is irrelevant.

Once again, thanks for all the support and encouragement, hopefully some time soon I'll get hold of a scratched table and start a build thread...

 

[portals999]

I prefer the layout you posted in post 5, nice rhs compound curve and nice wiggle at corner before main straight.

Good move to put the APB to end of main straight!

 

[ol'Deezel]

I think this is the one, and without up and overs I don't think it's possible to get more track (12 meters) in the space....

What I like is the smooth flowing fast(ish) curves on the left, balanced by a series of compound spirals on the right, and it has a nice balance between a lot of track without quite becoming a bowl of spaghetti.

What I don't like is the series of 6 short straights and I'm hoping that once I get real track on a real board a better solution to that particular problem presents itself, and there will be one cut-to-fit custom straight required, but neither of those is the end of the world...

 

[portals999]

It's a nice layout for the space you have, you need to set it up and run many many laps then tweak as necessary if anything bugs you.

You still might have issues with the rhs XLC re missing sensor, again it's not if you miss but rather if the guy in front has slowed to change you'll change too if you miss sensor, that can wreck races if you're using a RMS.

My only other comment is aesthetically I'm not that keen on the lhs infield 'loop', it's symmetrical which is unrealistic, it could easily be made compound by replacing the exit R2s with R3s or something, but at end of day it might be fine when racing as easier to take R2s at speed!

You cannot really do anything about short straights in limited spaces.

Let's see some pics of the track and a video of cars running!

 

[ol'Deezel]

...I'm not that keen on the lhs infield 'loop', it's symmetrical which is unrealistic, it could easily be made compound by replacing the exit R2s with R3s or something,

I went with '"or something"....

I love this version, but it's just too tight. The board will have a perspex (or similar) edge, but I don't want cars literally sliding along the barrier on corners! Mostly though I've included this version as a bit of a promo for Ultimate Racer 3 design software, if you just keep playing with it, almost anything is possible! Usual 'no connection' disclaimer....

 

[portals999]

So what's the overall plan for the track will it be mainly yourself and pacers, or family and kids or regular beer/club nights with the lads?

Some of these questions may influence the final design you use, it will need to be simpler for family and kids but can be more tricky for you regular meets?

Barriers might also be an issue as you mention. If your corners have just the Armco barriers on them then the car on the outside lane always has the advantage as they can go very fast and just 'ride' the barrier around the corner. I had this issue with the two raised corners on my track and I eventually replaced the plywood underneath to allow for run-offs before the barriers, these corners now require more skill to get around and overall has improved racing.

If you post your .scc files from posts 17 and 19 then others can have a play and see what they can come up (as there are some very skilled designers here)?

The other thing is you need to do is setup up these tracks and run many many laps, the best looking designs don't always translate to a good flow, and vice-versa.