SlotForum banner
21 - 40 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Rich,

The spec of the OMRON relay is 5V and the spec states max V at 160% - that would make it 8V max.

So with the trigger voltage at 8V to 10V - I might be close to destroying the coil.

Could I drop the voltage from the trigger to the 5V relay by using resistors?

If so, do you have any idea on what value resistors would be appropriate.

Ideally, a relay with 9v dual coils would be better but I can't find anyone who sells them.

Keith.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Gavinb

The 1st one is no good it is single coil only. It has 8 pins and you can see the coil between pins 1 and 8


2nd one - the items in stock seem to be single coil as well

3rd one might be good - the image on Ebay shows 10 pins on the relay. However, I'm a bit nervous about the part number EA2-9NJ, if you look at the datasheet the Double Coil Latching type would be EA2-9Txx and should be like this, with coils between pins 1 - 5 and 6 - 10


Thanks for looking


Keith
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,882 Posts
Keith I would try something like 100 ohms in series with each coil. Thing to do is wind the PSU volts down to say 9V and check the relays are still reliable and adjust slightly if necessary.

Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
SinclairZX81

Great find
- USA based - I'll be there on business in 2 weeks!

There are 8 items listed.

1 - Is great and only 5mm tall (if you bend the solder pins at right angles)
2 - Ending DC12 - I think is 12V
3 - A bit too large and may also be 12V
4 - A bit too large
5 - Is 7mm tall on its side and OK
6 - A bit too large
7 - Is great and only 5mm tall - (if you bend the solder pins at right angles)
8 - None in stock

So it looks like the best solution is:-
1 - G6HK-2-DC9 - Omron
7 - TQ2-L2-9V - Panasonic

And this will also do the job
5 - TX2-L2-9V - Panasonic

The 3 above have a coil pick up voltage at 75% and max voltage at 150%
So the 9V nominal has a range of 6.75V to 13.5V

RichG set the PSU to 13.5V during his test and measured between 8V - 10V on the flipper coils so the range above would seem to be about perfect.

I think that wiring the changers power independently of the track voltage wouldn't be a bad idea but not absolutely necessary.

Thanks - Keith.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Rich
QUOTE Keith I would try something like 100 ohms in series with each coil. Thing to do is wind the PSU volts down to say 9V and check the relays are still reliable and adjust slightly if necessary.
Would a 100 Ohms resistor in the location below work for both coils?

Thanks, Keith.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,882 Posts
Yes that will be fine.

Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
QUOTE (K3ITH @ 10 Aug 2008, 01:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yes, on the CLC I intend to add a link wire between the Lane Change Flipper and the Fixed Exit non-Flipper.

Great solution for a topic I am very interested in (low voltage, no mags)


Please correct me if I am wrong but I do not think you can power the fixed exit flipper from the entry one. For example, take the case of a CLC (left hand in to out):

Straight through (no lane change) case:
Entry Flipper is positioned and powered for straight through so the entry flipper is powered from right rail (indirectly via relay)
This means that the fixed exit flipper is powered from the right rail even though it is physically the left rail for all cars on the outer lane. What will happen to the car's chip when a car on the outer lane contacts the exit flipper where both inputs to the car powered from the right rail?


Change lane case:
Entry flipper is powered via the left rail
This means the exit flipper is powered from the left rail when it is physically acting as the right rail for all cars changing lanes. Similar issue to previous case.

It would seem the exit flipper should be powered with the opposite polarity of the entry flipper right? I don't know anything about these relays but I would hope that they could deliver opposite polarity as well as the desired entry flipper polarity. If this is possible then I only see one potential issue:

Entry flipper set to change lane:
Entry flipper powered via left rail so exit is powered via right rail
This yields correct polarity for all cars changing lanes

However, any car on the outer lane passing over the exit flipper (powered via right rail) will briefly have both its contacts be powered with right rail polarity.

In addition, there will also be a brief short as the left braid of a car on the outer lane contacts both the left rail and the right powered exit flipper. Perhaps this is so brief that it would not be an issue. Can anyone confirm this?

It really seems like the exit flipper needs to be powered based on sensors in the changing lane and the outer lane. I know this has been brought up before so I will stop there.

I really do hope that I am wrong and that these are really non issues...

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
OK, I think we're back in business!

The 5 volt relay - OMRON G6HK-2100 5DC - arrived today!

Rich had found at 13.5V PSU the trigger voltage was 8V to 10V and he suggested trying a 100 Ohms resistor to drop the voltage for the 5V relay.

I am learning lots here! - The operating voltage range for the 5V relay is 3.75V to 8.0V

I estimated the following...

PSU 13.5V - Trigger 9.0V
PSU 10.0V - Trigger 6.7V

PSU 13.5V - a 100 Ohms resistor would drop the 9.0V trigger to 5.0V at the relay.
PSU 10.0v - a 100 Ohms resistor would drop the 6.7V trigger to 3.7V at the relay.

PSU 13.5V - a 42 Ohms resistor would drop the 9.0V trigger to 6.7V at the relay.
PSU 10.0v - a 42 Ohms resistor would drop the 6.7V trigger to 5.0V at the relay.

Maplins had 42 Ohms and 100 Ohms resistors in stock. Because I often run my track at lower voltages I tried the 42 Ohms resistor.

It looks very promising I tried it on a 4 Car PB with a standard Scalextric PSU and the 6 Car PB using a PSU voltage of 10.0V and 13.5V so far no overloads and no issues. More testing to do but it is encouraging!



The 9V relays may arrive tomorrow - and if that works there will be no need for the resistor!

Keith...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Mike,

Thanks for your input on the CLC. You make a good point that the fixed exit flipper will need the opposite polarity.


I haven't looked closely at the CLC yet - but I have a couple of ideas!


I'm really confident that the Straight Lane Change will work!


Keith...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
The Curved Lane Changer (CLC)
I'm pretty sure it will be possible to power the CLC flippers. Both sensors appear to be in the detection track piece. It will take 2 relays and a small insulated section to the rails. I haven't pulled a changer apart yet and the colours used below are there to help explain the operation!

THE TURN
In this case the Red-Trigger will fire both relays and provide a Positve Polarity to the Change-Flipper and a Negative Polarity to the Fixed-Flipper


STRAIGHT THROUGH
In this case the flippers are independently controlled.
If a car is in the lane with the movable flipper then the White-Trigger will fire and provide a Negative Polarity to the Change-Flipper
If a car is in the lane with the fixed flipper then the Yellow-Trigger will fire and provide a Positive Polarity to the Fixed-Flipper.


BRAID SHORT
In order to protect from a Braid Short a small section of track will need to be insulated or removed as per the image below.


Please shout if you see any issues with this!

The 9V Relays arrived today - But too tired to do anything with them


Keith...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,882 Posts
Hi Keith

No need for a second relay, you will be able to power the exit flipper on the CLC using the unused changeover contacts in the first relay. Just connect the black & red connections the other way round.

Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Thanks for your input.

Rich,
The reason I used two relays was to get 3 distinct triggers by using 3 relay coils.

1 - The Turn
2 - Straight through on the flipper lane
3 - Straight through on the fixed-flipper lane

The only way I can see to do it with 1 relay is to connect the trigger signals from both lanes together, would this work?


Rick,
There is a possibility, if 2 cars are close together, that Car-1 could initiate a turn making the exit flipper negative polarity but before Car-1 gets to the fixed-flipper, Car-2 goes through the fixed-flipper lane sensor and the fixed-flipper becomes Positive polarity.
In this case Car-1 would create a short at the fixed-flipper. The reverse situation would also exit and that's why I think the rails need insulation.

Thanks, Keith...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,038 Posts
I thought of this but youd need a non conductive rail area at least the size of the max length of braid + a mm or two no? Or maybe thats what you have already?
Great work, it really does make a difference, enjoy it.

Rick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Rich,

I've thought a little more about the single relay for the CLC - even if we can connect the trigger signals together I think there's another problem.

With 2 relays - the change flipper will be controlled by that lane and any contact with the either rail will always be at the correct polarity. However, if a single relay is switched by the fixed flipper lane the polarity to the change flipper will also change but the flipper actuators won't fire and a short will occur


Keith...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
OK, I hit another issue!

One 9V and one 5V relay have failed, they both switch reliably but the contactors are dead. It appears that the Actuator fires the flipper so fast that it can touch the opposite polarity rail before the relay has completely switched, this results in the relay contactor becoming a fuse - not good!

A solution was to place a small piece of electrical insulation tape on the end of the flipper, this also provides the advantage that it doesn't matter if you manually push the flipper to the other rail - no short can occur!


I've tested the switching for over 500 operations and it's perfect.

So as not to confuse anyone I've created a new Dummies Guide HERE

Enjoy&#8230;
 
21 - 40 of 44 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top