[Jairus Watson]

Just spitballing here but I've been thinking about this for months since the 2011 proxy started. A few of you wanted to run the Parma track and I shot that idea down right quick due to the simple fact that the faster tracks tend to destroy some of these toys more than the shorter tracks.

So... here is an idea for the Proxy 2012. Not totally sure just who will step forward and organize the next event. But I wanted to get our creative juices flowing again long before the deadline in order to source the needed bits.

Here is what I have been mulling over and darned if it was not inspired by ol'"Wavemaker".

The idea is to run only one or two fast tracks. Fastest car wins! (prizes, money, glory?)
Thingie's are basically "balls out" designs that use the best of the best tech to go as fast as possible.
A quick peek at the final pages of our history already reads that the current wing racer occupies (there is that word again) the current position on that throne of all 'Thingiedom' so why not go with that... ?

I present this idea: "Choti Doody"!
Yeah, the Choti line of bodies pretty much contain the essence of the modern wing racer. Anyone can solder together a light weight chassis. So the question is.... what motors?
Well, we have stuck with 1968 as a tech line-in-the-sand in the past almost to the point of insanity! However, I suggest in order to increase participation and move the movement forward, (not to mention increase reliability) the tech deadline should be adjusted to 1970. This would allow "C" can motors! (or the "B" of course)
Ah... that would be Champion and Mura "C" can motors (two hole) with-out bussbars! but cutting the can down could be allowed!

Can drive or endbell drive makes no difference but we limit the placement to in-line only just for fun.
Any gears, any wheels and tires as long as they were available in 1970.
All bodies have to be Choti or you will fly off the freaking track.
No added wings, just the body that was originally molded. (Electric Dreams and O2R have them)

The question is... how much down force do you need?
How much weight?
How much power can we squeeze out of a little Mura motor packed full of the best ceramic magnets on the face of this earth?
(or should we allow any magnets?)

Soooo.... how quick is quick on the Parma track?
Yeah, I want to race on PARMA and at least one AMERICAN KING!

What do you think?
Wanna play BALLS OUT?

 

[dgersh]

Sounds like fun Jairus! Definitely in the NorCal spirit with all those 300 foot high-banked tracks...

I'd say any Choti style body, any ceramic magnet vintage motor, maybe a 3-1/4" width limit and say 1mm clearance - but maybe track owners could chime in here! (or maybe limit it to D & B cans, but with any wind - C cans seem kind of modern to me).

I like the idea of just one or two tracks - these are definitely not made for endurance events! And it would make logistics a heck of a lot easier. But which Parma track are you referring too?

Now, where did I put that U-Go chassis and blue tires....?

Don

 

[one27ray]

Ya! That sounds interesting

i-ray

 

[Jairus Watson]

Thought you guys would like it!
Over on SB a few other guys have suggested things as well including Al who wants to make his own body.
Of course we are months away from starting something new. Lets just spit ball for a while and discuss the options.

Thought you would like it Ray!

Don, the Parma track is the one in Italy. But since I wrote that it was pointed out that Parma, while a large track, has pretty much flat corners. Not as fast as a King and not really fitting the Choti/wing car aspect. So... maybe just two or three King tracks would simplify the shipping process some? I hate to leave out the Europeans...

 

[dgersh]

Thanks Jairus,

I got my Parma and Parme mixed up, not to mention Parma Ham (prosciutto...).

Frankly, if you get one or two Blue Kings in the US that would be fine, and wouldn't leave out us Europeans (or expats) at all! It's just as easy to send a car to the US as to another country here, or even within France sometimes! I think it might even be appropriate to have the race at one venue in the US, where the whole Thingie thing started...

To answer a question that popped up in SlotBlog, there were actually two main Thingie tendencies: the super-lightweights in Northern California, under Choti aerodynamic bodies, and the not quite so lightweights at The Groove and other Midwest tracks, often based on Dynamic motor carriers and with Shinoda bodies... I'll see if I can find some articles on the NorCal cars, to show that construction style....

I don't think the Choti bodies were automatically lightweights either: the one that I happened to find many years ago has a brass strip chassis and a Champion 517...

Don

 

[Jairus Watson]

Yeah, that's pretty much a midwest car alright. "The Thing about Thingies" article is what you are thinking about.. .right?

The scratchbuilding guys for the last 4 or 5 proxies have been building for durability, reliability and weight! Most are pretty heavy. I went light with "Replatron Dyna-slider" just to see if it could be done and now I am confident it's possible. But on a short track... not so much. I think this is because the 26D, while good on torque, has a pretty mild wind. So... my Dyna-slider is a good example of light weight that needs a hairy-a$$ powerplant.

John Havlicek wrote something on the S.B. thread:
QUOTE I think key to all this is pretty simple:

1)make as few rules as possible, but stick to them without exceptions
2)look at "the spirit" of the time frame for guidance.
3)Rules should be designed for both "fairness" so no one has say a modern G7 motor in their car, but also for "inclusiveness" so as many people can join in as want to. I wouldn't include any modern motors (D or C cans) unless you wanted to setup a "modern thingie" race because lots of people would probably just get one of those.
4)Don't get so hung up writing rules

It could be as simple as:

1/16" track clearance, 3 1/4" width, Choti body, any motor up to Mura B and C motor, any period chassis (manufactured or scratchbuilt) or modern scratchbuilt. Why make things more complicated than they need be?

-john

I felt it worth sharing with you guys too.
Seems that Howmet and Al both want to make their own bodies so that means opening it up to ANY Thingie body now since you can't have a restriction and then allow some to make their own.

The key here is the motors I suppose. Cut up cans or stock cans?
If cut up cans are allowed then we probably should require "before and after" pictures to prove it came from a 1970 can.

Have not heard yet from Mike Zimmerman. He is such an innovator that I really wanted to hear his opinion too

 

[lowrider]

Wot, no pink gears?

L.

 

[Jairus Watson]

Depends who organizes it I guess.

 

[Jairus Watson]

Okay, lets take this at a more scientific approach.

I have a flexi wing racer here that I perfected through actual completion to run faster than my reactions could actually drive it. Some of the better racers at the track I played at could do 3.5 second laps with it on the 140ft hill climb track. My best attempt was 3.7.

We ran Proslot "D" can motors... which in my opinion are the pinnacle of that design and a great target to shoot for using vintage bits. Popping those magnets and arm into a Mura "A" with appropriate brush hardware pretty much equals the PS motor performance.

The Champion Flexi with aluminum pans (unmodified) weighs 100grams with body and the ratio is 3.7 to one with 3/4" tires. (My Dyna-slider weighs 120g btw)
Easily possible to build one from steel wire wouldn't you agree?

I have a bag of Cox 28t gears here. I'll give one to each (tested to ensure roundness and concentricity) person as a gift in order to eliminate the "PINK SKURGE"!
An 8/28 gear set provides 3.4 to one ratio and perfect for a King track in most circles.

 

[howmet tx]

Hey Jairus- I don't want to influence the rules just for my own interests- if you want authentic Choti bodies it's fine by me. I love 'em! Keep it all simple is the best suggestion yet. My secret 'ground effects project' (henceforward known as GEP) can wait...

 

[one27ray]

I quess there will be no " Pancake- Noda-Choti " Hence the PNC-Project ether

Would it be open to all Choti body styles of that era?

i-ray

 

[Jairus Watson]

QUOTE (howmet tx @ 28 Oct 2011, 04:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hey Jairus- I don't want to influence the rules just for my own interests- if you want authentic Choti bodies it's fine by me. I love 'em! Keep it all simple is the best suggestion yet. My secret 'ground effects project' (henceforward known as GEP) can wait...

John, I look forward to the creativity of these discussions. And it is indeed just a discussion since the previous race is still in progress. Indeed, come tomorrow morning Jens and co. will be running the Minerva round with our cars. I have my Dynamic Challenge shirt on right now and do not plan to take it off till the race is over.

But we can discuss the future, if there is one, and talk about stuff freely.
Al wanted to make his own version and I see no reason why you or Ray cannot do the same. (I would like to see your idea for a "Pancake Noda Choti" Ray!)
Just keep in mind that if this goes forward, the cars will be less restricted and way more competitive than the last bunch we sent off.

That means FASTER btw. If you want to come up with your version of a Choti then that is fine with me.
The fewer rules the better... they are more like guidelines anyway.

Once again Sir Havlicek came up with a good post:
QUOTE I think key to all this is pretty simple:

1)make as few rules as possible, but stick to them without exceptions
2)look at "the spirit" of the time frame for guidance.
3)Rules should be designed for both "fairness" so no one has say a modern G7 motor in their car, but also for "inclusiveness" so as many people can join in as want to. I wouldn't include any modern motors (D or C cans) unless you wanted to setup a "modern thingie" race because lots of people would probably just get one of those.
4)Don't get so hung up writing rules

It could be as simple as:

1/16" track clearance, 3 1/4" width, Choti body, any motor up to Mura B and C motor, any period chassis (manufactured or scratchbuilt) or modern scratchbuilt. Why make things more complicated than they need be?

-john

 

[Jairus Watson]

By the way Ray, could you please email me pictures of the Choti bodies you have available? Please? I would like to post them here permanently.

 

[one27ray]

QUOTE (Jairus Watson @ 28 Oct 2011, 09:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>By the way Ray, could you please email me pictures of the Choti bodies you have available? Please? I would like to post them here permanently.

I'll dig through the achive and see what I can find, the last virus, kill a bunch of them lol.

i-ray

 

[32deuce]

Not to worry Ray, I've got your back. I have almost 400 of your pictures HERE and I add them whenever you put something up.

Z

 

[Jairus Watson]

Thank you Mike. I searched through the pics you saved and found a couple. But here I have found the image that says it all. Was an advertisement that Max posted some time ago. (been searching for this one for some time now)

 

[32deuce]

QUOTE Have not heard yet from Mike Zimmerman

I'm in for the challenge although, I'm not much of an aero guy. Should actually make for a closer competitive series.

As far as finding a director J, I think you're it, since you came up with the idea...

...and you seem to have the following and the nerves for it.

You have my vote.

Z

 

[Jairus Watson]

Martin, over on Slotblog wants to limit the width of this race. He has not said he is wanting to take part, just that he thinks the limit should be imposed because that is what the limit was back in the day.

Interesting thought... except for the fact that there are no printed rules for Thingies that I know of.
If we limit the width that leaves one Areo body that we all can use (other than the guys who make their own) and that is the Choti #5 and available through both Electric Dreams and O2R.

Brings up the question to Ray.... do you have any Deep Dish Choti's in vintage 3" width's sir?

Discuss freely please.

 

[dgersh]

Jairus,

The 3" width was a general rule back in the 60s for all slot cars - but not sure how often it was respected, especially for Thingies. The general overall rules were 3" width, 1/16" ground clearance, a driver in the car and at least 3 numbers - but obviously the last two wouldn't apply to Thingies!

My feeling would be to keep this width, but as you also pointed out, we've been running 3-1/4" in the last two proxies! (and I didn't even realize that - could you make my Derrière a little wider please?).

And basically, whoever runs the event, and whatever rules are decided, we'll go with them!

I think it was also pointed out that TrueScale has some 3" Choti bodies, and we haven't heard from Ray, John, Smokey Robinson and the Impressions yet...

Don

PS: for what it's worth, my original Choti is 3" wide, but the Swedish Flat Iron is closer to 3-1/2"!

 

[howmet tx]

Happy to whittle anything to whatever required width for personal or general requirements!