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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just spitballing here but I've been thinking about this for months since the 2011 proxy started. A few of you wanted to run the Parma track and I shot that idea down right quick due to the simple fact that the faster tracks tend to destroy some of these toys more than the shorter tracks.

So... here is an idea for the Proxy 2012. Not totally sure just who will step forward and organize the next event. But I wanted to get our creative juices flowing again long before the deadline in order to source the needed bits.

Here is what I have been mulling over and darned if it was not inspired by ol'"Wavemaker".

The idea is to run only one or two fast tracks. Fastest car wins! (prizes, money, glory?)
Thingie's are basically "balls out" designs that use the best of the best tech to go as fast as possible.
A quick peek at the final pages of our history already reads that the current wing racer occupies (there is that word again) the current position on that throne of all 'Thingiedom' so why not go with that... ?

I present this idea: "Choti Doody"!
Yeah, the Choti line of bodies pretty much contain the essence of the modern wing racer. Anyone can solder together a light weight chassis. So the question is.... what motors?
Well, we have stuck with 1968 as a tech line-in-the-sand in the past almost to the point of insanity! However, I suggest in order to increase participation and move the movement forward, (not to mention increase reliability) the tech deadline should be adjusted to 1970. This would allow "C" can motors! (or the "B" of course)
Ah... that would be Champion and Mura "C" can motors (two hole) with-out bussbars! but cutting the can down could be allowed!

Can drive or endbell drive makes no difference but we limit the placement to in-line only just for fun.
Any gears, any wheels and tires as long as they were available in 1970.
All bodies have to be Choti or you will fly off the freaking track.
No added wings, just the body that was originally molded. (Electric Dreams and O2R have them)

The question is... how much down force do you need?
How much weight?
How much power can we squeeze out of a little Mura motor packed full of the best ceramic magnets on the face of this earth?
(or should we allow any magnets?)

Soooo.... how quick is quick on the Parma track?
Yeah, I want to race on PARMA and at least one AMERICAN KING!

What do you think?
Wanna play BALLS OUT?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thought you guys would like it!
Over on SB a few other guys have suggested things as well including Al who wants to make his own body.
Of course we are months away from starting something new. Lets just spit ball for a while and discuss the options.

Thought you would like it Ray!

Don, the Parma track is the one in Italy. But since I wrote that it was pointed out that Parma, while a large track, has pretty much flat corners. Not as fast as a King and not really fitting the Choti/wing car aspect. So... maybe just two or three King tracks would simplify the shipping process some? I hate to leave out the Europeans...
 

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Yeah, that's pretty much a midwest car alright. "The Thing about Thingies" article is what you are thinking about.. .right?

The scratchbuilding guys for the last 4 or 5 proxies have been building for durability, reliability and weight! Most are pretty heavy. I went light with "Replatron Dyna-slider" just to see if it could be done and now I am confident it's possible. But on a short track... not so much. I think this is because the 26D, while good on torque, has a pretty mild wind. So... my Dyna-slider is a good example of light weight that needs a hairy-a$$ powerplant.


John Havlicek wrote something on the S.B. thread:
QUOTE I think key to all this is pretty simple:

1)make as few rules as possible, but stick to them without exceptions
2)look at "the spirit" of the time frame for guidance.
3)Rules should be designed for both "fairness" so no one has say a modern G7 motor in their car, but also for "inclusiveness" so as many people can join in as want to. I wouldn't include any modern motors (D or C cans) unless you wanted to setup a "modern thingie" race because lots of people would probably just get one of those.
4)Don't get so hung up writing rules

It could be as simple as:

1/16" track clearance, 3 1/4" width, Choti body, any motor up to Mura B and C motor, any period chassis (manufactured or scratchbuilt) or modern scratchbuilt. Why make things more complicated than they need be?

-john

I felt it worth sharing with you guys too.
Seems that Howmet and Al both want to make their own bodies so that means opening it up to ANY Thingie body now since you can't have a restriction and then allow some to make their own.

The key here is the motors I suppose. Cut up cans or stock cans?
If cut up cans are allowed then we probably should require "before and after" pictures to prove it came from a 1970 can.


Have not heard yet from Mike Zimmerman. He is such an innovator that I really wanted to hear his opinion too
 

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Okay, lets take this at a more scientific approach.

I have a flexi wing racer here that I perfected through actual completion to run faster than my reactions could actually drive it. Some of the better racers at the track I played at could do 3.5 second laps with it on the 140ft hill climb track. My best attempt was 3.7.

We ran Proslot "D" can motors... which in my opinion are the pinnacle of that design and a great target to shoot for using vintage bits. Popping those magnets and arm into a Mura "A" with appropriate brush hardware pretty much equals the PS motor performance.

The Champion Flexi with aluminum pans (unmodified) weighs 100grams with body and the ratio is 3.7 to one with 3/4" tires. (My Dyna-slider weighs 120g btw)
Easily possible to build one from steel wire wouldn't you agree?

I have a bag of Cox 28t gears here. I'll give one to each (tested to ensure roundness and concentricity) person as a gift in order to eliminate the "PINK SKURGE"!
An 8/28 gear set provides 3.4 to one ratio and perfect for a King track in most circles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
QUOTE (howmet tx @ 28 Oct 2011, 04:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hey Jairus- I don't want to influence the rules just for my own interests- if you want authentic Choti bodies it's fine by me. I love 'em! Keep it all simple is the best suggestion yet. My secret 'ground effects project' (henceforward known as GEP) can wait...

John, I look forward to the creativity of these discussions. And it is indeed just a discussion since the previous race is still in progress. Indeed, come tomorrow morning Jens and co. will be running the Minerva round with our cars. I have my Dynamic Challenge shirt on right now and do not plan to take it off till the race is over.

But we can discuss the future, if there is one, and talk about stuff freely.
Al wanted to make his own version and I see no reason why you or Ray cannot do the same. (I would like to see your idea for a "Pancake Noda Choti" Ray!)
Just keep in mind that if this goes forward, the cars will be less restricted and way more competitive than the last bunch we sent off.

That means FASTER btw. If you want to come up with your version of a Choti then that is fine with me.
The fewer rules the better... they are more like guidelines anyway.


Once again Sir Havlicek came up with a good post:
QUOTE I think key to all this is pretty simple:

1)make as few rules as possible, but stick to them without exceptions
2)look at "the spirit" of the time frame for guidance.
3)Rules should be designed for both "fairness" so no one has say a modern G7 motor in their car, but also for "inclusiveness" so as many people can join in as want to. I wouldn't include any modern motors (D or C cans) unless you wanted to setup a "modern thingie" race because lots of people would probably just get one of those.
4)Don't get so hung up writing rules

It could be as simple as:

1/16" track clearance, 3 1/4" width, Choti body, any motor up to Mura B and C motor, any period chassis (manufactured or scratchbuilt) or modern scratchbuilt. Why make things more complicated than they need be?

-john
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thank you Mike. I searched through the pics you saved and found a couple. But here I have found the image that says it all. Was an advertisement that Max posted some time ago. (been searching for this one for some time now)

 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Martin, over on Slotblog wants to limit the width of this race. He has not said he is wanting to take part, just that he thinks the limit should be imposed because that is what the limit was back in the day.

Interesting thought... except for the fact that there are no printed rules for Thingies that I know of.
If we limit the width that leaves one Areo body that we all can use (other than the guys who make their own) and that is the Choti #5 and available through both Electric Dreams and O2R.

Brings up the question to Ray.... do you have any Deep Dish Choti's in vintage 3" width's sir?

Discuss freely please.
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Couple more on Slotblog have said they are in. Not done an offical headcount yet but I am guessing from the interest, might have a bit more than 26 cars for the 2012 Choti "Balls Out" races.
One person of note is Tony P, who says he will be building and submitting a car!


Any interest in a T-shirt too?
 

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Really Low? I am IN on that one! (I love building these things and have a ton of 36D parts.)

Made some progress on my test mule Sunday night. Soldered up a perimeter frame for the Choti body.


Yeah, I know that it looks suspiciously like a 90's wire wing car frame... but that is what is needed to support the body while at speed. I think straight brass pin tubes will not be enough. The center section is straight out of the Mura hand book though and the front axle and pin-tubes go on next.

I contacted Bryan Warmack in L.A. and he volunteered to give it a test on Buena Parks "King track". All results will be posted here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
This is not a suggestion for a new class Paul, but a proxy race to be run on two west coast tracks in Los Angeles and San Francisco. The participants of which will most likely have most of the parts on hand already. If not... we are all friends and trades "behind the scenes" happen all the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Yellowbug,

We have done the Shinoda thing for 5 races so far. One of the fun things about these proxy races is that they rarely are the same. I am sorry that you missed out during the last 6 or so years.
You see, we pick a theme and a few rules (very few) to built toward. It gives a little leeway for innovation to keep the grey matter happy and provides an outlet for our favorite hobby. A win win as far as I can tell.

Steve, you said it very well, thanks my friend!
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Al,

Yeah, those are the rules so far. Edo and one other guy suggested changes that added lots more rules including narrowing down the frame rule to a U-Go two-rail only or likewise replica. But the conscious seemed to be to leave the scratch-building of the frame open, ie: fewer rules.

But... one of the suggestions was to allow any body, especially the Shinoda line.
The whole point of this exercise I thought was to build the quickest pre 1970 vintage slot car possible. And now someone wants to forego the aero-advantage? Makes no sense and the entries will only become missiles when it comes to a corner.
So.. I am thinking that in light of three requests to mold their own bodies, that the body rule be changed to "Any body as long as it is a THINGIE"! But any thinking person will utilize one of the deep-dish choti bodies because they are PROVEN to work.

As for the 1970's wheels. It would be nice if everyone would use period correct front and rear wheels. There is nothing produced today that even come close to what we used to have back in 1970 so that would require gluing and truing of Alpha or JK rubber onto old period wheels. I understand that not everyone can do this or even has even one set of vintage wheels. But if a vintage motor can be found, wheels too can be found.

But as far as I am concerned, it is not a deal breaker. The car will still run with modern wheels.

But Al, remember that these rules have not yet been set in stone. And I will not do so until the current Proxy is done. This time period for me is just the testing phase, and if I can ever get a few hours of free time, I will finish that mule and send it out for testing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Edo will be happy to know... I scored a U-Go chassis on ebay. It is mounted inside a running car that looks like it was built back in the day. It has very dry tires by the way. I pray that the chassis is not modified.

At any rate, when it gets here I plan to pull it apart and in the 'spirit of the race' make that my mule. I am doing this because there was some controversy over my use of a perimeter frame on Slotblog. Sooo.... new plan: going all vintage.... and waiting on the post.

The new tires are glued and trued, front wheels and keepers at the ready. Assembly will take a day with another just to hog on some paint.
Maybe this next weekend?
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Okay, in an effort to keep Edo and that other guy... George I think, happy. I picked this up on ebay so I could start with a purely vintage entry to test. The chassis is a U-Go Smith item that was modified slightly to add weight.

The rest of the parts are pretty nice and will go into a variety of other projects already in the works. Seems almost a shame to part it out...
Construction begins Saturday, happy Wednesday everyone!
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Dave finished that car. (In the beginning thread) He mounted a "One-winger" O2R body on it and painted it bright yellow with a picture of "The Hulk" hand painted I think. The paint and finished pictures I believe are buried in the Nor-Cal forum 'Thingie' section. At least that is the last place I saw it.
 

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"Eat at Joes Crab Shack" for instance? Great place for seafood by the way....

Okay, got the chassis done for my Choti Mule today. Took about 6 hours total from start to finish and I like it! Very vintage and I used quite a bit from the original eBay car: motor bracket, guide tongue, forward body mount and front axle.

A new set of rails were formed and slightly bowed so the motor would fit.

The finished chassis frame...


... and with all the bits attached.

The motor was originally built and re-wound by John Havlicek. I added a set of period correct heat sinks.

Ready for paint and lead wires. (Body by O2R)

 
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