[conti_rowland]

Thought it was time I posted a few pic's of my latest project:

There's still a long way to go. It is of course going to utilise the Matchbox kit.

Andi

 

[loosesalute]

Haven`t got a clue mate....but I`m dead impressed with your skills. Can`t wait to see it develop!
Cheers,
Kev.

 

[Philip P]

Looking good Andi; another masterpiece in the making.

It will be one of the best made P34's we have seen on the forum I am sure.

Keep us posted,

Philip

 

[Julian_Boolean]

Tyrrell P34

 

[conti_rowland]

It was supposed to be a play on Rolf Harris's art program....... Since it started with a bit of paper no!!??

NOT a serious question....... Anyway well done you guys for working it out!!!! What gave it away the 4 front wheels?

Andi

 

[Race-Jan]

Oh boy, he's at it again...

Looking good already, can't wait to see it develop!

Actually, the "/tyrrell_p34-Model.jpg" in the notification-email gave a clue of things to come

 

[biedmatt]

I think you mis-counted, you have an extra set of A-arms on the front.

Very nice work, Ken Tyrrell would be proud. I was always fascinated by this car.

 

[Graham Lane]

So, working four-wheel steering! How does he think of these things?

 

[mini zzr1100]

in the first couple of pictures where that chrome body thing is. i thought you were making the car that the light up fat guy from Running Man drove.

 

[Delidubz]

Hi Andi

Amazing results so far.

This is a project i want to keep a close eye on.

I adore the p34 and i remember it being unveiled as a child.

I stared at it in awe

I congratulate you on such a fantastic build .

I love the Technique of paper templates.

That's how i make my own body repair panels,being a panel beater

Well done for choosing a fantastic car to build

Tim

 

[conti_rowland]

So, I've been working on this again after a break.....

I managed to make one of those really annoying errors that make you want to throw the whole thing away and never work on it again!

Having originally thought ot use the Beardog 030 motor I then realised that that just wasn't going to move this car quick enough so decided on the slim line motor type but somehow (probably drunk) managed to measure it 5mm too short and then found it wouldn't fit. Duuhh. I've resoleved that now by modifying the chassis enough...

So let me just say a few words about the inspiration for this build. I'm currntly into the '70's F1 thing as I think it is a very interesting period in the evolution of motor racing. The cars really changed dramatically over a very short time and every car was completely different from the next. I love that as it makes for interesting grids with some types working on some tracks and vice-versa - for slot cars too.

Having made a space frame car (Vanwall) and completed that kit-bash of the Surtees I really wanted to make up the P34 kit but on receiving the kit and realising that it contained a model of the whole interior chassis detail (unlike the earlier Surtees) I couldn't resist to try to model it.

Of course being me I wanted to make a REAL monocoque such that it was self supporting, not just a sham. AND it needed to be metal but it took quite a long time to realise that instead of fixing together seperate thin sheets of metal I needed to develop the origami idea into a single piece of metal folded up.

I used 0.2mm thick sheet which in hindsight is much thicker than it needs to be. If I were to do it again (which I wont) I'd use 0.1mm as a start since once folded up it is extremely rigid.

Now the chassis is done the first thing I started is the 4 wheel steering. Obviously the most fascinating thing about this car IS the 4 wheel steering so I HAD to build that. On the Vanwall the steering was the last thing I tackled and the least convincing (it worked of course but looked a bit rubbish). So here I decided to start with this. Also because if I failed then I wouldn't waste time on the rest of the build first.....

I started by fabricating the stub axles witha pivot link point inboard and a screw thread outboard so the wheels can be screwed on.

The kit wheels were drilled out and a brass bush added to rotate on the axles.

Trial assembled last night in different positions you can see that the front and back axles have already been linked together to work in tandem. All that's missing now is the link to the guide.

The A frames are wider apart than the stub axle pivot tube so that the stub axles will all be able to travel up and down a little to take up any road imperfections.

So far so good.....

Cheers

Andi

 

[FZSsemans®]

awesome metalwork skills. real good!!

 

[bosmeck]

Great job so far Andi.

 

[Graham Lane]

Yet another combination of beautiful art with amazing engineering. Love it!

 

[Race-Jan]

Beautiful display of skills as we have come to expect of you

One question (to raise the bar so to speak): did you account for the difference in steering between the first and second front axle?
I mean to say that the angle the very front wheel makes in a turn should be bigger than the angle the second wheel makes...
I hope to make sense here...

Jan

 

[rmcclure]

Another of your fascinating builds that I'm following closely. Hugely entertaining stuff - thanks so much for sharing.

 

[conti_rowland]

QUOTE (Race-Jan @ 20 Oct 2011, 09:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>did you account for the difference in steering between the first and second front axle?

Jan

You know I spent around two weeks on the computer trying to model that. Moving the wheel pivot point, the steering arm pivot point, the guide pivot point etc.

As anyone knows if you have three variables there are almost infinite outcomes.

I got fairly close in the end but just couldn't quite resolve it. Whatever I did I could get three of the wheels (always the front two and the inner rear) making the three different and appropriate arcs but the 4th wheel always looked like it was pointing in the wrong direction.

Then I researched the real car and finally when I was quite mad foud that Tamiya made a 1:10 RC version of this car which helped me a lot.

All in all I decided to ignore the problem of the front and rear having different rotations so that on each side the wheels will rotate the same back and front, but instead the inner TWO wheels WILL have a different rotation from the outer.

Its the best I can do. Actually I found no evidence to suggest that Tyrrell resolved this better than me either. If anyone knows a) how to do it or

whether Tyrrell did it i'd be really interested......

Thanks Jan for the question. The bar should always be moving upwards otherwise we're not learning anything.

Cheers

Andi

 

[Race-Jan]

I understand your frustrations...yet the issue at hand made me wonder if it could be done at all, so I dabbled a bit in Paint to see if I could come up with some sort of basic principle that should in theory work...

Here's a top view, I tried not to step away from your methods re the threaded axles and uprights...

Hope you can make heads or tails of it, and please do correct me if I'm wrong.

Let's raise the bar once more, that's what it's for

Jan

P.S.: cleaned up the pic a bit

 

[conti_rowland]

That's pretty much what I came up with. Maybe i'm wrong (you'd need to redraw it all as it steers left or right) but that will make 3 work but always the 4th looks odd.

Again I could be wrong.....

Andi

 

[conti_rowland]

Oh, Jan by the way one (maybe) of the reasons why its more complex than that is that the movement of the central guide pivot is in itself an arc. What that means is that there is a non-linear movement between the inner and outer sides when the guide link arm goes from centre to outer and vice-versa.......

I did about 30 sets of drawings using different principles. if I have time i'll post a few.

Finally, its not the rear outer that goes wrong its the rear inner. What happened to my attempts was that the rear inner ends up sterring LESS than the front inner so it looks really horrible.......

Andi