SlotForum banner
1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Living the Life!
Joined
·
11,082 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can anyone give me an idea about the durability of Urethane tyres v rubber ones, specifically on Scalextric cars on Scalextric track??

Do urethanes go hard with age like the rubber ones??

many thanks for any help and advice .....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,886 Posts
I have some Ortmanns (Urethane) that are very maintenance free. Leave them for a year and simply wipe clean. Then again I have some "rubber' tyres that are the same. Also I have some rubber ones (Revell) that turned to chalk and some (NSR Zero Grip) that turned into plastic. The latter is Ok but they are noisy now. I think storing in a cool dark place maybe the key, the chalk one were stored on some spongy plastic and I think adsorbed something from that plastic.

I also have some old Scalextric tires from a C2029 Meganne that are 13 years old and are still in good condition and I will use them on a repaint of a SuperStox. I also have some 30 year-old ratty SuperStox tires that are all cracked but with some "magic" came back to life good enough to use., only one pair out of 8 but..

I still prefer rubber as one can "play" alchemist with them but if it is 100% trouble free you are looking for as opposed to 98.8% and accept the grip they come with go urethane.
 

·
Prof I T
Joined
·
11,159 Posts
Hi
Before placing any orders I would enquire as to what shaw or is it shore rating you are getting
.

From my limited use of urethane's if it is very low then they will last a few months if used regularly.


I started off with some urethane's and the track has now rubbered in so much that the volts have gone up from 13V to 15V and driver settings have gone from 60% to 100% .

This means grip levels are not far off the same as mag use,so driving skill has gone backwards.


Tried standard Scaley tyres today and with the rubbered in track times and skill level had returned to the early urethane days,also reset the power settings and driver settings back to original.

Don't know though if the standard boots will lift the extra grip from the track.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Clinch

·
Living the Life!
Joined
·
11,082 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Interesting Ade ........ so do you reckon that you will need to clean the track more often if you stick with Urethanes?

What I am trying to find out is which is the most cost effective tyre to use on my herds of cars for digital racing so that everyone gets a reasonably similar race experience with the minimum of effort and expenditure from me. Of course my personal "specials" will always get whatever is the best for them.

All the best - Greg.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Clinch

·
Prof I T
Joined
·
11,159 Posts
hi
No Greg, what I am trying to say is that the urethane's that I purchased were quite a soft shore rating so they lay down grip on the track as they wear,that's why it is I portant to get the shore rating correct at the outset.

The one's I am using have provided consistent reliable grip at a reasonable price,but I would hazzard a guess they are quite soft so after a few race meetings where many hundreds have been completed the wear is quite high.

A high shore rating should provide long life and consistent grip,usual track dusting apllies of course.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Clinch

·
Living the Life!
Joined
·
11,082 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
D'OH ..... gotcha now ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
[quote name='GregK' date='29 Sep 2012, 16:01' post='736357']

What I am trying to find out is which is the most cost effective tyre to use on my herds of cars for digital racing so that everyone gets a reasonably similar race experience with the minimum of effort and expenditure from me. Of course my personal "specials" will always get whatever is the best for them.

most cost effective : make them yourself, it's not so hard to do : http://www.slottrack.com/index.php?showtop...mp;fromsearch=1
sorry, it's in dutch but the pictures tell a lot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Hi Greg

I've got the SSD set up using Scaley track, all my cars that are out for "general" use have had a tyre upgrade either Indy Grips, Maxxtracs, MJKs and some Ninco, so a combination of compound types, I've been doing this for the last 5 years, so far trying to find the best grip and swapping tyres and checking times I've not been able to pick one as significantly better than the other on my set up.

The silicone tyres seem to be the most consistent but are hard to true up, the MJK urethane type true up really well and both last a long time, I've not replaced any on my earlier cars so far and none have gone hard or crazed like some of my Scaley tyres.

I reckon the silicones have a slight edge on the MJK urethanes but only minor, I've never tried the super soft urethanes as I was led to believe they didn't have a long life span. Well trued Scaley rubber can gets close to both in track times, but not close enough.

I've not really noticed too much build up on the track, however I do give it a regular clean with a general purpose cleaner.

I know you weren't looking at silicone tyres but thought I'd throw them in the mix

Marty
 

·
Living the Life!
Joined
·
11,082 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks guys this is exactly the kind of information that I am after ......
 

·
Circuit Owner
Joined
·
5,913 Posts
I make my own urethane tyres in various grades:

Shore A20
Shore A30
Shore A50

Urethane stretches more than rubber so you also have to bear in mind the thickness of the tyres and the diameter of the wheels.

I run on Sport track by the way so my observations are only for that surface.

The softest (Shore A20) is hopeless for modern Sportscar tyres and small superslix - they are just too soft and thin and the tyres come off the rims at the sniff of a corner. The grip is fantastic but if you use them you have to glue them and I mean glue them with glue all over the rims so every contact point is held.

I find the Shore A50 is about right for my Scalextric F430s - it is slightly softer and grippier than the standard Sport tyre but it can be matched by the Sport tyre if you oil the Sport tyre well. It's just more convenient not to have to remember to treat the tyres a couple of days before a race.

The Shore A20 made up as Scaley Large Superslix is awesome - I put a pair on a Mabuchi powered BMW 3.0 CSL the other day and revved the car with the wheels in the air - you could see daylight between the tyre and the rims! It was like those massive tyres on a dragster - increasing diameter with speed. These tyres will have to be glued but the grip is great with a progressive slip at the edge of adhesion so you can catch a slide. I can't tell whether the tyres expand on the fast straights to give higher gearing!!!

Having said this - the Shore A30 is slightly harder and offers almost as much grip without flying off the rims and the Shore A50 doesn't need gluing and is probably the best for longevity.

I use the Shore A30 on my six Scaley Taurus NASCARs (magless) and they are so much better than new rubber - lap times are about 10% faster with the urethanes and the slides are controllable. Because they are magless the tyres are holding up really well even though they are soft - much less downforce so much less stress on the tyres.

All three hardnesses true up nicely on P400 "wet and dry".

Having said all this I think my next batch of Urethane will be Shore A40 if I can find any - a bit more grip and decent wear but not so fussy about good gluing.

As for wear rates - the Shore A20 and Shore A30 do "feather up" on the surface. This doesn't seem to affect grip too much and doesn't seem to compromise the integrity of the overall tyre but it does look as if the wear rates will be higher than standard rubber.

The Shore A50 seems to hold up as well as the standard rubber tyres.

About 90% of my cars use one or two of 6 tyres so I made moulds of the 6 types and mess about making tyres for my cars for pennies a shot (although it does take some time to mould them). Mind you - I am still waiting for the standard Sport tyres on my Transit conversions to wear out and after many thousands of laps they are still going strong.

One thing I would say about standard rubber tyres - my Transit tyres have lasted really well (they are built on F430 chassis and wheels) but I run them as a club class and the tyres are left untreated. I run the same chassis and wheels under the original F430 in our club GT class and I oil the tyres with 3-in-1 which gives urethane-like grip BUT I notice the tyre surface is breaking up (it's rougher - not chunking) and lots more rubber is coming off. I think the oiling increases wear considerably.

I believe silicones drive best on a scrupulously clean surface and don't like fluff and dust - they lose grip. Clean silicones offer better grip than urethanes. BUT Urethanes don't "go off" in terms of performance when they get a bit dusty so in a short sprint the silicones should win and on a longer race the urethanes should have the edge. I don't know where that tipping point is and anyway you shouldn't run silicones unless you want to clean all the rubber off your track!

In summary - three things to consider - thickness of tyre, diameter of rims and downforce on tyres. Thin tyre on large diameter wheels with magnets being the worse so needing harder tyres. Thick tyre, small diameter wheel and magless - go soft and enjoy the extra grip.
 

·
Prof I T
Joined
·
11,159 Posts
Hi
Yes Rich I have noticed this feathering on my first batch of urethane's that I purchased. Some is visible as bebris left around the corners but the grip levels on the painted mdf track have increased a lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,036 Posts
Mr M

Silicones only take a handful of laps to clean up a track

Our oval lives in Lee's garage and he uses it as his work shop, he's a chippy as well so there is a lot of dust.
It gets regularly moved but it only takes a few laps to clean off the surface

All you have do it run 2 orb3 laps wipe the tyres clean, most of our lot lick them, but they are not right in the head lol

We then run our races and the tyres only need a wipe between heats.

As we use silicones regularly they are by far the most consistent and least wearing tyres we have used.

No dark arts to them and the track doesn't have to be spotless as it will clean up after only a few laps

We also use the wasp tyres on our SCX NASCARS and these are wearing down quite quickly, also grip leves do fluctuate during the night, they are nice tyres but do need a bit of work and maintenance or the slide like made.

Michael
 

·
Tony
Joined
·
2,834 Posts
Having come from the BRSCA brigade with foam rubber tyres I am completely confused with the rubber/urethane/silicon tyre options. With all the different ways to treat the tyres it seems like black magic or alchemy to me. With the foam it was so simple, clean em and goop or not, now it's even easier I don't use goop. Now I'm trying hard body and plastic chassis cars it's a minefield
 

·
Nobby Berkshire
Joined
·
2,015 Posts
Scalex Sport silicones have very little grip from my experiences of these quite poor tyres. Buy one set first and see what you think. I'm also not sure how long anyone can know these to last because they've only been on the market for about 6 years. To be honest, I'd not touch them with an extended bargepole. And they don't fit many hubs dimensions.

The longest lasting tyres I've had are standard Ninco, but on Scalex Sport track they don't have stunning grip.

I've had a few NSR Supergrip tyres that have gone hard over 8 years, but they still have fantastic grip.

Oddly, the longest lasting high performance 'everyday' tyres are Fly tyres treated with a thin wipe of 3-in-1 oil once a year on the outer surface. But they must be treated from new. Left untreated they go either sweaty or rock hard in about 4 years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,036 Posts
QUOTE (Michael363672 @ 30 Sep 2012, 19:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Heres a little video of the end of a race

http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/YgligWgIpUs?hd=1?rel=0

Un edited guys


More than enough grip for us


And looking on the wear on my sets that I have this used this year they will last for basically as long as need them to

One set has covered over 2000 laps of our GT Track which is about 90 ft long and they are just getting scrubbed in

Michael
 

·
Circuit Owner
Joined
·
5,913 Posts
Hi Michael,

I can see why Silicones would be the tyre of choice for your racetrack - it has a gloriously smooth surface which should be easy to wipe clean and remove all dust particles. It isn't going to attract dust either - being painted wood so not prone to static.

My Sport track isn't bad but it is rubbering in now so must be abrading the tyres.

I think, from reading past threads in SlotForum, that the Ninco track and Scalextric Classic track have quite high attrition rates. Some of the reports from 24 hours races report brand new tyres wearing down to the point the cars are grounding and needing to be replaced during the race. The Ninco and Classic track is also very difficult to give a quick dust off - and it is plastic so there must be some static - so it hangs on to dirt which would take silicones quite a while to lift.

I would expect any sort of tyre to last really well on a nice smooth painted surface. Plastic track - with all its joints, undulations and rough surface is bound to wear the tyres.

I think tyre compound choice needs to factor in the circuit surface, the degree of lateral force exerted during a circuit (how twisty it is), the speed the cars race at and the downward pressure on the tyres (mag or non-mag).

No doubt some tracks are better suited to silicone, some to rubber, some to sponge and some to urethane.

How do urethanes and rubber fare on your track?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,036 Posts
QUOTE (Mr Modifier @ 1 Oct 2012, 22:39) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Michael,

I can see why Silicones would be the tyre of choice for your racetrack - it has a gloriously smooth surface which should be easy to wipe clean and remove all dust particles. It isn't going to attract dust either - being painted wood so not prone to static.

I think, from reading past threads in SlotForum, that the Ninco track and Scalextric Classic track have quite high attrition rates. Some of the reports from 24 hours races report brand new tyres wearing down to the point the cars are grounding and needing to be replaced during the race. The Ninco and Classic track is also very difficult to give a quick dust off - and it is plastic so there must be some static - so it hangs on to dirt which would take silicones quite a while to lift.

How do urethanes and rubber fare on your track?

1st point. Our track gets dusty as it is in a concrete painted floor garage that lee also works in


But yes it is smooth


Silicones work on smooth track so a no go for Ninco or Classic track

On the GT 24 hour our car was running between 4 and 6 hours on a set of F22's and they were pretty worn out and that is on Ninco track

We chose Silicones as our tyre at The FALCON Raceway to get away from all the tyre treatments etc, I have seen these at club level and the amount of grip between the same tyres is astounding with treatment

Silicones level out the playing field

The only class not to run silicones and this is our SCX NASCARS these run the WASP tyres which are urethanes I think

These are wearing out already also the grip comes and goes with these tyres still can quiet get to the bottom of it yet
They seem to get worse during the night but if you smooth them out again it comes back

And we do run a fair few laps don't forget
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,588 Posts
There can be compatibility problems when using different types of tyre on the same track.
There seems to be a consensus that if all the track users stick to one type of tyre grip is OK, but nobody seems to have a full understating of which combinations give a problem and which don't.
The experts sometimes get caught out with one type of tyre loosing grip at meetings where different sorts of tyre are in use.

There is quite a lot of evidence that using some types of silicones causes some types of rubber tyre to seriously loose grip. There are also examples of some types of rubber working fine on tracks where silicones are used.
Seems that if everybody uses silicones they work fine, but other tyres won't necessarily work properly on tracks where silicones are used.
 

·
Living the Life&#33;
Joined
·
11,082 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The situation for me will be controllable as they are usually my cars on my track. It's just I would rather race then listen to moans about which car has the better tyres for grip and so on. If I make them all the same then that pain should dissapear .........
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top