Using non-"chipped" cars on digital track
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Unable to comment on the "factory" stuff - but the Digitrax system reserves adress 00 for analog devices.
So, any analog (non-chipped) car would be addressed as 00 and controlled as such.
That means all 00 adressed cars would be controlled by the same set of commands... or alternatively, you can drive one 00 car at a time.
I use and enjoy both.
I set up 4 or 5 00 adressed analog cars as traffic, and set the throttle at 30% or so (which equates to a different speed for each car - and with my auto lane changers, means these cars even pass each other...
![]()
) - and let them circulate the track.. while I grab a DCC chipped car and practice racing moving traffic cones..
Or I may setup 3 DCC adressed cars and set 3 controllers to control these cars, all at the same speed... and I grab a 4th DCC chipped or 00 adressed car and again play "drive around the moving traffic cones".
I guess I have a multi-car home-brewed Challange setup afterall..
![]()
Oh - and the response on my very tight, technical 25s per lap track is just fine.
-Paul
So, any analog (non-chipped) car would be addressed as 00 and controlled as such.
That means all 00 adressed cars would be controlled by the same set of commands... or alternatively, you can drive one 00 car at a time.
I use and enjoy both.
I set up 4 or 5 00 adressed analog cars as traffic, and set the throttle at 30% or so (which equates to a different speed for each car - and with my auto lane changers, means these cars even pass each other...
Or I may setup 3 DCC adressed cars and set 3 controllers to control these cars, all at the same speed... and I grab a 4th DCC chipped or 00 adressed car and again play "drive around the moving traffic cones".
I guess I have a multi-car home-brewed Challange setup afterall..
Oh - and the response on my very tight, technical 25s per lap track is just fine.
-Paul
Joined
·
8,026 Posts
I've tried the 00 CV address. Funny thing is that there is never a no voltage situation. At 0 speed (i.e. stopped) the lights of a car (without capacitor) glow and the motor makes a sound as if straining to go. Quite interesting.
I think that a non-digital car would work on Scalextric Digital track, but I don't know how the controllers would work. Nobody knows exactly what's inside those things - not even Moped. The jury is still out on this issue.
I think that a non-digital car would work on Scalextric Digital track, but I don't know how the controllers would work. Nobody knows exactly what's inside those things - not even Moped. The jury is still out on this issue.
Ok - how does that work???
These cars are sending AC square waves (not evenly distributed squares), the motor wired directly to the braid will send all this to the coils in the motor. At best they will respond to the difference of 1s and zeros, but will the AC damage the motors?
Thats how I imagined it would work, since RC45 has it operating on his system, obviously something else is happening?
These cars are sending AC square waves (not evenly distributed squares), the motor wired directly to the braid will send all this to the coils in the motor. At best they will respond to the difference of 1s and zeros, but will the AC damage the motors?
Thats how I imagined it would work, since RC45 has it operating on his system, obviously something else is happening?
And now you can drive one car right handed and the other lefthanded at a reduced rate of speed to cope, until you get the hang of it or vise versa if lefthanded. As well as having the 00 coded cars as moving chicanes to get around. You could race your other left brained or right brained self.
Hey it just struck me as a funny senario and was not meant as a deterrant to the topic.
![]()
![]()
Hey it just struck me as a funny senario and was not meant as a deterrant to the topic.
ahh ok - heres my guess:
for the 00 channel (analogue cars), it adds some extra zeros or ones that are not part of a 'message' to one of the other cars, so that the average voltage (of the ones and zeros of the proper messages plus these extra ones) ends up being say +6 volts (or whatever the controller for car 00 is set to).
Again there is a question of whether this would damage the motor & LED lights long-term - i have no idea on this issue
for the 00 channel (analogue cars), it adds some extra zeros or ones that are not part of a 'message' to one of the other cars, so that the average voltage (of the ones and zeros of the proper messages plus these extra ones) ends up being say +6 volts (or whatever the controller for car 00 is set to).
Again there is a question of whether this would damage the motor & LED lights long-term - i have no idea on this issue
Joined
·
2,547 Posts
AC volts will slowly smoke a motor
Joined
·
8,026 Posts
Yep, you can race a chipped car in any direction as the chip governs the current going to the motor. For the car on Register 00, you have to select reverse for it to run around the track the wrong way.
BTW, I'm running back and forth to the garage to find this out as I type, across my courtyard, through the thunderstorm and driving hail.
I'm now damp and I got zapped by the continuous currant on the track. My arm is still tingling. This is going to be interesting - seeing how many little johnnys get zapped with these systems and go crying to mummy.
BTW, I'm running back and forth to the garage to find this out as I type, across my courtyard, through the thunderstorm and driving hail.
I'm now damp and I got zapped by the continuous currant on the track. My arm is still tingling. This is going to be interesting - seeing how many little johnnys get zapped with these systems and go crying to mummy.
![](http://www.slotforum.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="<_<)
QUOTE (astro @ 22 Jul 2004, 19:59)ahh ok - heres my guess:
for the 00 channel (analogue cars), it adds some extra zeros or ones that are not part of a 'message' to one of the other cars, so that the average voltage (of the ones and zeros of the proper messages plus these extra ones) ends up being say +6 volts (or whatever the controller for car 00 is set to).
Again there is a question of whether this would damage the motor & LED lights long-term - i have no idea on this issue
The DCC vendors advise against leaving an analog locomotive on a poweredtrack idling for extended periods, however indicate (and have not for years) minimal if any damage to non-chip controlled motors that are running, over time.
The sound you hear is in essence DCC signal..
![]()
for the 00 channel (analogue cars), it adds some extra zeros or ones that are not part of a 'message' to one of the other cars, so that the average voltage (of the ones and zeros of the proper messages plus these extra ones) ends up being say +6 volts (or whatever the controller for car 00 is set to).
Again there is a question of whether this would damage the motor & LED lights long-term - i have no idea on this issue
The DCC vendors advise against leaving an analog locomotive on a poweredtrack idling for extended periods, however indicate (and have not for years) minimal if any damage to non-chip controlled motors that are running, over time.
The sound you hear is in essence DCC signal..
After a long discussion some considerable time ago on this board, I was left with the impression that NO AC current whatsoever is involved, that the current is pulsed DC. Which still leaves the question as to whether pulsed DC can damage DC motors in the long term. I know this has been of concern in some low quality train motors but I don't know how or even if it has ever actually been established authoritatively. This is important because most of the motors used in our cars ARE low quality.
The impression I got was that when racing with digital cars, the track is supplied a consistant DC current, and the chip in the car regulated the current going to the motor - sort of like putting an analogue controller in the car.
I'd imagine that a low-voltage digital data signal will be 'carried' on the track current, and this will contain instructions to control the chip, and therefore current to the motor.
Back to the original question, though, I was wondering the other day if Scalextric would include an 'analogue mode' on the digital system. If this were the case, you'd still use the digital controller, but a variable current would be applied to the track by the digital base unit rather than a constant one.
I think this is how SportWorld is going to work, as it uses digital controllers but runs analogue cars. This allows for features like fuel-load weight and 'yellow-flags' where the cars are forced to run on half-power during a crash.
It will be very interesting to see what Scalextric have in store once more info is available!
I'd imagine that a low-voltage digital data signal will be 'carried' on the track current, and this will contain instructions to control the chip, and therefore current to the motor.
Back to the original question, though, I was wondering the other day if Scalextric would include an 'analogue mode' on the digital system. If this were the case, you'd still use the digital controller, but a variable current would be applied to the track by the digital base unit rather than a constant one.
I think this is how SportWorld is going to work, as it uses digital controllers but runs analogue cars. This allows for features like fuel-load weight and 'yellow-flags' where the cars are forced to run on half-power during a crash.
It will be very interesting to see what Scalextric have in store once more info is available!
bbloye - much has been speculated on these boards already.
You are right about sport world using the digital controllers to run analogue cars.
The World system has a removeable control pod.
Later Scalextric are releasing DIgital Pro system, using a removeable pod, so you can switch between the digital pod and the world pod (if you have purchased both!)
Regarding the digital protocol - a similar method as used for DCC seems likely (+18volts/-18volts square waves, with pulse widths representing the data) rather than a superimposed digital signal. This is because the communication transmission is very noisy and adverse to complex signals; when rectified, it results in a constant voltage to all the digital cars. And the bonus is that non-signal data can be added between the data packets so that the summed volyage can be varied from 0 volts to something useful (12 volts?) for an analogue car/train
You are right about sport world using the digital controllers to run analogue cars.
The World system has a removeable control pod.
Later Scalextric are releasing DIgital Pro system, using a removeable pod, so you can switch between the digital pod and the world pod (if you have purchased both!)
Regarding the digital protocol - a similar method as used for DCC seems likely (+18volts/-18volts square waves, with pulse widths representing the data) rather than a superimposed digital signal. This is because the communication transmission is very noisy and adverse to complex signals; when rectified, it results in a constant voltage to all the digital cars. And the bonus is that non-signal data can be added between the data packets so that the summed volyage can be varied from 0 volts to something useful (12 volts?) for an analogue car/train
QUOTE (astro @ 10 Aug 2004, 00:24)The World system has a removeable control pod.
Thats what I heard from a bloke at Scalextric when I rang up about a problem
with my challenger and we got chatting.
Apparantly when you switch to "Analog" pod you will still use the same Digital
controllers but software within the analog pod will then vary the amount of
voltage put onto the track - very much like Professor Motor electronic controllers
infact.
Thats what I heard from a bloke at Scalextric when I rang up about a problem
with my challenger and we got chatting.
Apparantly when you switch to "Analog" pod you will still use the same Digital
controllers but software within the analog pod will then vary the amount of
voltage put onto the track - very much like Professor Motor electronic controllers
infact.
Joined
·
167 Posts
to RC45:
Thanks for the description of your "multiply-Challenged" setup! It sounds like a very enjoyable way to allow racing in traffic for some of us who may not be able to obtain racing partners (say, at 1am). My guess is that adding these slower cars to a mix with an actual Challenger-type "robot" car might provide an even better way to practice one's skills in traffic. The variation between slower, non-controlled "moving chicane" cars, and the faster (but perhaps not perfect) robot car would be a big factor in getting me to install digital as an option. Any such installation, though, would have to allow me to revert to analog for my collection of vintage cars, especially the ones that draw too much current to be "chipped". I'm using Carrera track, in order to allow me to race both scales. However, I'm not averse to modifying or routing/building some track sections to allow for lane changing -- provided that these sections can be left in place for use when racing analog cars.
Marcus
Thanks for the description of your "multiply-Challenged" setup! It sounds like a very enjoyable way to allow racing in traffic for some of us who may not be able to obtain racing partners (say, at 1am). My guess is that adding these slower cars to a mix with an actual Challenger-type "robot" car might provide an even better way to practice one's skills in traffic. The variation between slower, non-controlled "moving chicane" cars, and the faster (but perhaps not perfect) robot car would be a big factor in getting me to install digital as an option. Any such installation, though, would have to allow me to revert to analog for my collection of vintage cars, especially the ones that draw too much current to be "chipped". I'm using Carrera track, in order to allow me to race both scales. However, I'm not averse to modifying or routing/building some track sections to allow for lane changing -- provided that these sections can be left in place for use when racing analog cars.
Marcus
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
