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Russell Sheldon
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2,855 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was poking around Gary's website and noticed that he has listed a couple of new Vanquish MG F1 cars to be released in 2004. Were VMG on show at Nurenberg?

GP021 1972 Surtees TS9B
GP031 March 771 6-wheel

The March 771 is an odd choice. I know that Scalextric made one (that looked awful), but I'm wondering why VMG are making a car that never actually raced -- or do they just want to try making a 4-wheel diff!





I'd like the 1972 John Love Team Gunston Surtees, to race with the Dave Charlton Lucky Strike Lotus 72D, please!

Kind regards

Russell
 
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What was the first F1 team to race in sponsors colour? as I am sure Russell must know this one he can't answer.

RR
 

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Administrator
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Motor racing folklore has it that Colin Chapman's 1968 deal with Players cigarettes and the subsequent Gold Leaf Team Lotus name and colour scheme was the first sponsored F1 car but in the back of my mind a thought niggles that a South African driver had a cigarette sponsored car the year before in their domestic championship.

Maybe Lotus weren't the first although they were the first in F1.

David
 
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In the 1968 South African GP John Love drove a Gunstone-liveried Brabham to be the first FI team in sponsors colours.

RR
 
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I not going to be unhappy when they have all gone but this is a personal thing. I don't smoke for the same reason I don't drink. I raced bikes from 15 to 21 and have trained ever since. Now I go to gym with my daughter sometimes or my son.

RR
 

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And we are supposed to live in a free society? What`s next...? Oh yes it`s hunting, then it`ll be fishing,then wargaming, collecting teddy Bears and then wearing shorts in the winter. What a joke!

By the way I`ve never smoked and don`t fish,have just two Teddies but my shorts ...I`m prepared to fight for the right to wear them til I get buried!
 
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Jonny as you said to over the Daytona review this is not personal and nobody is saying that anyone's right should be resticted. IF FI is a sport which I believe it is then to me it seems a good idea to have it cigarette sponsor free. This is a personal view which I would never impose on anyone else.

RR
 

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Russell Sheldon
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2,855 Posts
Actually, I yearn for the days when Keke Rosberg and James Hunt used to chain-smoke their way up the grids between qualifying runs.... smoking must truly be addictive for those watching Grand Prix racing!

The problem is that F1 is just way too expensive and there are few companies outside the tobacco industry (who are largely not permitted to ply their wares elsewhere) that can afford the sponsorship money that the teams command.

Why is the Grand Prix circus going to Bahrain and China this year, and Russia and other unlikely venues in the future? To make it truly global? Not on your life!

Most European countries ban cigarette advertising and more will have to do so when the EU's temporary exemption on tobacco advertising in motor racing runs out. Formula One simply cannot afford any more bans such as those already in France, Britain and Germany. A second involves demographics. There just are not that many people in other non-EU European countries. Indeed, most of the fans at the Hungarian Grand Prix come from elsewhere in Europe.

Bahrain, China, and Malaysia have no laws against tobacco advertising. Furthermore, Russia and China have huge populations, among which smoking seems to be the norm.

Smoking has negative affects on human health. Paradoxically, it ensures the good health of motor racing, even if it is in distant settings that are devoid of true motor racing enthusiasts.

Besides, I'd miss the Marlboro babes!
 

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Although the Gunston car was the first in a World Championship GP, Lotus actually rolled out their cars in the Gold Leaf livery during Australian leg of the Tasman Series which took place prior to the Kyalami GP. Whipped up a real storm of controversy but what's amusing is that Piers Courage had been driving a sponsered car in the Kiwi leg in the preceding weeks his was probably the first GP car to wear aponsorship.
 

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Russell Sheldon
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2,855 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi ******,

The Lotus 49T's were painted in GLTL colours during the Tasman series in 1968, not 1967.

The South African Grand Prix of 1968 was the first event of the season. Couldn't really help being that, it was held on New Year's Day!

For the first round of the 1968 Tasman Cup series in New Zealand, a few weeks after the SAGP, at Auckland's Pukekohe racetrack, Clark drove his Lotus 49T in Gold Leaf colours for the first time. In fact, I believe that this was the only time that Clark raced a Lotus 49 in GLTL livery.



Bob Dance was Chief Mechanic for Team Lotus at the end of the 1967 season, taking charge of the Lotus 49's of Jim Clark and Graham Hill. Here's what he had to say:-

"We got back from Spain in the middle of November 1967, and the cars had to be ready for the Tasman Series in Australia and New Zealand AND the first Grand Prix of the New Year (South Africa) was early that year too, on January 1st. So, you'll probably realise, we didn't have much of a Christmas holiday, in fact I think we managed Christmas Day off and that was it.'

'At that point we had two sets of cars being run. We had the Formula 1 cars in South Africa and the Tasman cars in New Zealand. In fact, I remember Jimmy leaving Johannesbourg STRAIGHT after the GP (another win!) to fly overnight to New Zealand for the first Tasman race. And then, in the middle of all that, we had to get the cars re-painted in their new Gold Leaf livery."


Kind regards

Russell
 

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My own opinion reflects the earlier post by Russ and add to this the post I have made on manufacturing elsewhere. My annoyance is two part. Firstly I don`t like being told what to do by anyone, least of all politicians and sorry foreign politicians is even worse. Secondly I am sick of seeing British Industry lose out to cheaper alternattives in Eastern Europe or China. To see a country lose it`s GP mainly due to politics is nonsense. I hate smoking but if you want to you are free to crack on and I have been watching F1 all my life and never lit up once and I don`t think many others have been that influenced either.
 

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Brian Ferguson
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3,652 Posts
Not to dwell on it, but the whole tobacco sponsorship issue hits close to home here in Canada. Our government has banned tobacco sponsorship, and in the process has killed our race driver development programs, irreparably damaged numerous forms of motorsport, seriously impacted pro tennis, and maimed or mutilated other sporting programs at all levels. Yet tobacco remains legal. The government continues to suck huge amounts of money from it in the form of taxes. A little two-faced if you ask me. They're saying "Yes, your product is legal and you may make and sell it (as long as we get our cut), but you can't tell anyone you are doing so". Odd...


Anyway, and still off the original topic,
an emailed copy of an illegal cigarette sponsor logo for the correct answer to this one:

Identify the last normally-aspirated 4 cylinder to race in a Formula 1 GP - country, year, car, and driver (there were two but I'm after the one who finished highest and therefore was last to drive one in F1). A bonus picture of my ashtray if you know why he retired after 22 laps.

Hey... of course it's not easy, but it was the end of an era! No, tobacco has nothing to do with the answer...


C'mon, Russell, you can beat JohnP to this one!
 

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Senior Slot Car Mechanic
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2,230 Posts
QUOTE The problem is that F1 is just way too expensive and there are few companies outside the tobacco industry (who are largely not permitted to ply their wares elsewhere) that can afford the sponsorship money that the teams command.
For the last 5 years,or maybe more,everyone in F1 has been screaming about the rising costs of F1 and Bernie and the whole circus have regular meatings bashing thier brains out trying ti find new and improved ways to reduce costs.

The answer is right in front of thier faces,but they can't see it for the Cigarette Smoke.

If the Tobaco money stopped ,costs would automatically fall,because,THE MONEY JUST WOULDN'T BE THERE TO BE SPENT.

Simple solution really.Unfortunately,I think the real reason is that it would affect Bernies bottom line too much if Ciggy sponsorship went away.

 

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Brian Ferguson
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Al, I hear what you're saying, but I don't think that will solve the problem. The technology is running rampant, and a few teams will find the money elsewhere to take it to even higher levels. The result could be even more of a discrepancy than exists now between front runners and backmarkers. The formula can't be based on expected finances if it is to change - any limitations must be imposed by rules. You may be right though that Bernie and friends are enjoying too high a lifestyle to really care...
 

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Russell Sheldon
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2,855 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi Fergy

I'm guessing... Canadian?

Al Pease drove a 2.7-litre Eagle T1F/101, fitted with the Climax FPF 4 cylinder engine in the Canadian Grand Prix at Mosport Park on 20 September 1969.

He was disqualified -- for being too slow!

Kind regards

Russell
 
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