[moped rider]

I was just doing a bit of surfing and discovered these rules for a major slot car event happening across America. Note the minimum weight rule:-

Rules for "Race Across America"

Now this is something I mentioned in my Lotus 7 event thread elsewhere. We are all so fussed about loosing weight (some of us more than others!

) that it has to make things a lot easier if you have a minimum weight rule similar to that set out above.

You basically can do anything with a car with a standard engine as long as the weight of the car is not below a certain value.

That to me makes for very simple rules.

So my rules for any race event would be something like the following:-

For a Scalextric NASCAR event

You can use any Scalextric NASCAR chassis and standard Scalextric 18000 rpm motor.

The chassis must not be cut in any way, shape or form.

The body must not be cut in any way, shape or form. The body includes window glazing and spoilers.

You can do anything else you like to the car but it must weigh a minimum of 90 grams

No magnet downforce permitted.

Thats it!

These must be the easiest rules in the world to understand.

How can anybody be accused of fiddling or cheating with rules this straightforward.

A minimum weight, standard body, chassis and standard engine ruling makes things ever so simple

Moped

 

[Difflock]

Ok let's change the motor internals! You'd never know!!

Just being devil's Advocate...

Mark.

 

[astro]

goody - another rules/standards/tuning thread, just what I wanted for christmas

 

[Otello]

So, I may use OEM wheels, bearings, pickup, pinion and gear; use sponge tyres (and dressing), have a very wide car, maybe with wheels outside the body?

Writing rules is not such an easy task...

Ciao
Otello

 

[moped rider]

If somebody is going to do that with a Scalextric motor under very simple rules then they are going to do it with any motor under any rules.

The one thing I would say is that they are more likely to be discovered if all the motors are meant to run and sound about the same. It is normally obvious if one sounds different.

Also what I will say is that in the future SPORT World and its telemetry will pick this and other issues up!!!

So the days of the motor fiddlers are numbered!

And as for the wheel/tyre thing, you can do what you want as long as you don't cut the body or the chassis and the car weights in at above 90 gms.

There is a point with slot cars where a very wide axle is not advantage because of drag.

Moped

 

[Tropi]

The rules for Race Across America are different.
For that series there is no limit on magnetism, which makes their mimum weight rule effectively pointless. With whacking great magnets present, a puny difference of 0.2 oz or about 5 gms is neither here nor there and I don't know why they bother with the minimum weight rule at all. It's competely barmy.

Conversely, I have been advocating a NO-mag, minimum weight class for years, similar to Mops suggestion above. However the minimum weight suggested is nowhere near enough. It needs to be at least 120 gms and 150 would be better still. This kind of good old fashioned gravity powered MASS makes the little cars behave much more like the real thing in every respect and, as Mop says, you can dump most of the nit-picking rules as well.
I like it.
I've always liked it.
Don't knock it until you have tried it - you might be surprised!

Although, if you are died-in-the-wool mag-fiend, you probably won't like it at all.
Mope used to be one of them - maybe my educational propaganda is at last having some beneficial effect!

 

[moped rider]

I absolutely love driving cars with lots of weight Tropi and you are spot on.

I also noted that there was no limits on magnets and thought that was a bit weird given the weight rule. Hence my no magnets rule.

The problem with a lot of weight though as Tropi will concur is that the motors can get very hot very quickly but the cars are a lot more realistic to drive.

Moped

 

[Fergy]

Merry Christmas, Astro!

Wait for tomorrow's topic : Magnets, the way to go?

 

[GRAH1]

QUOTE The one thing I would say is that they are more likely to be discovered if all the motors are meant to run and sound about the same. It is normally obvious if one sounds different

I have a slot it v12 25 b which runs faster than a good scale auto 35k .and I am sure that a lot of you also have motor anomalies ie something that absolutly flies when it shouldnt , under mopeds new theory of racertivety would such a motor then be excluded because it sounds fast and goes a lot faster than simlar ones due to what we have previously discussed about finding a good un.

 

[Tropi]

In the chaos of trying to sort out my PC today, I dug up a piece I wrote a couple of years ago. No one was very interested then and I expect the same applies today. But ah well, the hell with it, I'll inflict it on you anyway!

QUOTE Time IS the fourth dimension

A slot motor running at 12 volts and pulling just 1 amp is theoretically developing 15 watts of power.
15 watts is around 0.02 bhp.
If the car weighs, say, 50 grams
Then its power to weight ratio is 0.02 x 20,000 = 400 bhp/tonne.
Your average euro-family car weighs a ton or more and
develops about 100-120 bhp - call it about 100 bhp/tonne
The little slot car has a four times higher power to weight ratio!
That kind of figure is hairy-assed enough to handle in a full size car on a full size road but, in the confines of a little slot car track, it is even more "twitchy"!
Even home set cars can hit 300 plus "scale" mph in less than one second!
What we, the full size human drivers cannot do, is scale down our biological/psychological pereception of time to 1/32 of our own "reality" and speed is obviously a distance to TIME relationship. It takes BOTH to produce a speed figure. So, if we scale dimensions, we should scale the time as well, but we can't do that.

Nature, in miniature tends to produce small creatures that exhibit apparently (to us humans) immense feats of power and speed when we convert their activities into human sized terms, or even compare them with each other. Consider a scaled up flea that could leap several houses in one casual bound. Compare a humming bird with a condor for wing cycles per second!

All we can do really is juggle with the factors that we CAN easily control and, imho, "scaled" weights of around 30-70 grams simply don't work towards reproducing realistic car behaviour. In 1/32 scale, I feel a total weight of around 5-10 times the "scale" weight does MUCH better in this respect.
Hardly anyone agrees with me though!
I believe the disagreement stem from the loss of that almost instant acceleration which people have grown so accustomed to.

I'd love to see minimum weight limited slot car classes, starting at around 150 gms and going up to around 250 gms or maybe even more.
This is not as radical as it might sound, given that full-size Formula 1 already has a minimum weight limit.
The figure is 600 kg. (just 18 grams in 1/32 "scale")
(Not sure if that figure is still current today - I bet some smarty pants will check!)

 

[Swissracer]

QUOTE There is a point with slot cars where a very wide axle is not advantage because of drag.

Bollox!

What if I ignore the excess drag because my wheels are so wide no bugger can overtake?

I agree with the earlier comment - Rules can never be that simple Mope

I am running in the Race Across America ( as is our own Ecurie Ecosse I believe), currently riding in 7th place I think.
It sort of stalled for awhile but is now running again. I entered a standard Carrera 'Vette Stingray with a replaced magnet (I used the large Overdrive one) and I cut the light covers away and fitted lights (twins) at the front.

Interesting was the fact that it is an American race and obviously magnets were used but what wasn't SO obvious at the beginning was that nearly every type of track would be represented.
Having looked into the venues I realised and tried to take this into account but some entries have gone up in smoke having been set up for Carrera and ended up on Scaley Classic or Ninco and having so much downforce they would not move or went up in smoke (literally) soon after starting.

The website is well worth a visit as the write ups of the races so far entered are a fun read, as is the associated thread over on SCI.

 

[Wankel Ickx]

QUOTE Also what I will say is that in the future SPORT World and its telemetry will pick this and other issues up!!!

Please tell me how? Pretty please.

QUOTE There is a point with slot cars where a very wide axle is not advantage because of drag.

Really, I would have thought that;

There is a width with slot cars where a very wide axle is not advantage because it trips everyone else up.

 

[McLaren]

Moped, those rules are silly. That is entirely constructor based, and you will find that the best cars will win whether they are being driven by the fastest drivers or not.

Any rules which state: "You can do anything else you like"
Means that people will find innovative new things that they 'like' to do to their cars, which make them faster. Pnuematic tyres for example. Good idea, definate advantage, but cannot be done by everyone (infact hardley anyone can do them right first time).

Rules should state: "Anything not covered by the rules is not permitted"
This eliminates 99% of all innovations being used legally, with only 'loopholes' to be exploited. However, these rules suck... they leave nothing to the imagination, which means that lesser able drivers don't do so well.

I thought that you were more aimed at the second option, but I'm pleased that apparently we have managed to convert you.

Lotus

 

[Tropi]

QUOTE QUOTE There is a point with slot cars where a very wide axle is not advantage because of drag.

Bollox!
Well, in the words of Oz,
DOUBLE bollox man!

Because it simply isn't true anyway.
We are talking 1/32 scale here and the 1/24 guys have no compunction in making their axles as wide as possible, so we are going to have no problem with drag. None at all, it's nonsense.

 

[McLaren]

I think what moped is referring to is the increased air disturbance by open wheels outside of the body work, or the increase drag by having a body wide enough to encompass the extra wide axel.

Clearly this is a perfect case to use the phrase: "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

We are talking 1/32 scale moped! You must be havin' a larf...

Anyway, increased car handling would way make up for losing 0.0001mph down the straight...

Lotus

 

[Tropi]

Who knows what the Mop is referring to!
Are we supposed to be mind readers

Taking Meco's advice and offer Moped this advice:
QUOTE I used to draw up contracts. Language has to be clear else it is open to interpretation.
Now WHO was it said that???

 

[moped rider]

Also what I will say is that in the future SPORT World and its telemetry will pick this and other issues up!!!

When I asked the question I got one of the standard Hornby smiles that the staff are trained to give!

That normally means that you ask the next question!

And in terms of the drag effect I was thinking of a sponge roller almost the width of the track!

At least that would make it impossible for anybody to overtake me and I would win every time!

In the context of a "proxy" race though only one car is on the track at a time so this scenario is entirely possible!

Moped

 

[Tropi]

Regarding 'Sportworld Telemetry', after the previous wild claim, you now confess it was completely unsubstantiated. Quelle surprise!

Regarding wide AXLES.
Since when were axles made of sponge?

I can see we will have to consider introduction of a new "Surrealism Board".
We could use your excess sponge for padding to prevent the inmates from harming themselves.

I used to say "Welcome to the asylum", little knowing it would turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I'd better go to bed before I catch whatever is contaminating this thread!

 

[McLaren]

QUOTE At least that would make it impossible for anybody to overtake me and I would win every time!

Only if you got in front of them in the first place

Lotus

 

[Intergrali]

QUOTE So the days of the motor fiddlers are numbered!

I can smell summat, whats that, yes thats right... bull****!

I have never seen anything so stupid. the amount of tweaks fiddles and general arsing about you can do with motors will make it un feasable to control, so my response to that is bollocks!

You think your going to stop loopholes and have simple rules? your having a giraffe!

QUOTE You can use any Scalextric NASCAR chassis and standard Scalextric 18000 rpm motor.

The chassis must not be cut in any way, shape or form.

The body must not be cut in any way, shape or form. The body includes window glazing and spoilers.

You can do anything else you like to the car but it must weigh a minimum of 90 grams

No magnet downforce permitted

stock scaley motor with the timing fiddled, with some winds dropped off, some different mags..

must not be cut.. oh dear I appear to have broken in such a place where it goes better, oh dear I spilt some hot water on it... oops I left the hair drier by it

so I will simply grind the body away and makes some lexan interior parts while I'm grinding I think I will take some off the chassis too!

what I'm missing can soon be added by placing lead weight in the correct place.

no mags.. hmm so we can spin the motors and have a giraffe on you!

Cracking (ly funny) rules.

cheered me up!