[hankscorpio]

QUOTE (distantkiwi @ 12 Jan 2010, 09:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hank, I hope you don't mind the questions, but why 3 lanes on the oval? Also how do you bank the curves.

OK a quick summary of tuning the layout : Using the two lane version of the layout for the first time i had an awful shock, the inner lane was so much slower (3.2 sec lap) than the outer lane (2.4 Sec) which could lean on the characteristic wall on the outside of the curve. The .8 second lap difference (25% faster) was a disaster for racing... The idea of the "cut and shut" outer lane was to slow the middle lane by prevent it from riding on the barriers... The new outer lane was almost a metre longer than the inside lane (see diagram below) so the extra distance would slow the lap time considerably reducing the advantage of riding the barriers.. I then fitted the cars with Scalextric silicone NASCAR tyres and fitted two smaller 1.5x20x10 smaller than normal magnets in the front and rear positions...

The inner lane is 545 cm, The middle lane 593 cm, The outer lane is 641 cm... a massive 96cm (18%) difference!

When i ran a timed test:
The inside lane averaged 2.5seconds.
The middle lane averaged 2.5 seconds
The outer lane "switchback" which could now be taken at full throttle averaged 2.5 seconds
Somehow I had fluked a setup with the cars that meant overtaking could be done now on the inside or outside of a car running in the centre lane...!

The inner car is lapping at 4.9mph and requires some careful driving to keep the speed at 2.5 seconds, the centre lane car is travelling at 5.3mph and needs some care or the car will fishtail and lose speed the outer lane travels at 5.7mph... this makes for some quite scary overtaking manoeuvres on the straight lane changers and the "Chicaine type section where three lanes drop to two as cars jockey for position travelling at different speeds... It also means switching to an inner lane to use the pit lane game requires a marked drop in speed and areal element of skill...

I will be banking the track 5 degrees using a small wood block (2cm) under the outer edge with a thin (3mm) balsa support running down the slope from block to baseboard for the track to sit on... I will be Joining the R2's to the outer lane using scalextric middle track clips glued in place.... PVC angle will be used to form the wall and the flyscreen netting above supported by plastic fenceposts.... Diagram below

Hope that helps... Always happy to answer questions...

I couldn't find anything like this on "slot forum" when i started out..... i had to build a test rig to make sure the idea was workable...

Enjoy planning your layout.... its good fun, getting the framework in place for the board is a real drag...

My advice is to buy all the bits in advance... Build small test sections (like the banking system) on a table to ensure the idea works in reality... Then with all the bits ready to go the actual build is very quick...(there is nothing worse than getting stuck for a part at 6pm on a sunday when the shops are shut) Remeber to ensure the track is well fixed if you a building a folding layout andf fully scenic the back two corners BEFORE screwing it to the wall... makes life so much easier!

 

[hankscorpio]

Good news maplins came up with the goods as far as the bulbs are concerned...

with 4 required for each "curve" and maybe 6 for the straights thats £12.50 for the whole layout and they come with 12cm of wires pre soldered making life dead easy just take the leads to a "jointing block" so no soldering at all... great! and each bulb is less than 10mm... simples! as a meerkat might say...

12V Submin Clear PG77J £0.89 each

So must go shopping today after work and get some of these bits or i will never get anywhere...

 

[h00ch]

Fantastic idea! I'll be watching this track build for sure. Although, with regards to your NASCAR layout, it reminds me a lot more more of Martinsville's low banked "paperclip" shaped short track rather than Bristol. Martinsville is mostly asphault with concrete in the inside of the corners. You could even paint the 2 inside lanes of your track a grey colour to mimic the concrete. If basing your track on Martinsville, you'll also have to have a hot dog stand and the trophy is a grandfather clock.

http://www.martinsvillespeedway.com/Seatin...g-and-Maps.aspx

More pictures:
http://historicracetracks.files.wordpress....6/img_26151.jpg
http://historicracetracks.files.wordpress....6/img_26071.jpg

 

[hankscorpio]

QUOTE (h00ch @ 12 Jan 2010, 17:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Fantastic idea! I'll be watching this track build for sure. Although, with regards to your NASCAR layout, it reminds me a lot more more of Martinsville's low banked "paperclip" shaped short track rather than Bristol. Martinsville is mostly asphault with concrete in the inside of the corners. You could even paint the 2 inside lanes of your track a grey colour to mimic the concrete. If basing your track on Martinsville, you'll also have to have a hot dog stand and the trophy is a grandfather clock.

Thanks for the heads up on martinsville ... will do some research on that track for sure....

I'm not a big NASCAR Buff by any means but a quick even racing track that anybody can pick up and play was the one thing my first "test layout" failed at completely so decided to go three ways... (1) NASCAR OVAL, (2) GT1/F1 Circuit (3) Analogie drift rally

Cheers for the support!

Been out shopping on the way home...

Maplins... got 2 of the bulbs its all they had in stock!... will order the rest on line if they work out...
B&Q... got the plastic angle so will have a practice at chopping that up for the "Wall" and some screws and some of the framing...
Model shop... Got the balsa for the support system and the fence posts... should have some acrylic "Grey" somewhere... and some "non shed" Grass to try...
The "Fencing" is already ordered waiting for that to come... ended up costing £11.95 with the cutting and the P&P and will have loads leftover for the GT1 track..

Only the baseboard material to get... .got to figure the exact size for the room so i can get it cut "in-store"... and some 3m framing lengths.. and I'm away... Friends due to visit at the weekend arn't coming now so if i can find a "spare" pair of hands to chop the wood... sorted!

 

[hankscorpio]

QUOTE (h00ch @ 12 Jan 2010, 17:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Hooch...

Do i take from this picure that the pit lane is a full wrap around affair... i.e pit exit and entry on the same straight... with the pits on the other side?

If it is that's a prototype for what i was originally planning... thought it was too ficticious to use... could really help my track plan!

 

[h00ch]

That's right. The pit entrance is at the start of turn #3 and the exit is at the end of turn #2.

 

[hankscorpio]

In calculating heights for vehicles for "Flat" type layouts with bridges...

A Chapparal Rear wing is 5.5cm - 1cm for track height - .5 for "bounce" while travelling- minimum bridge pier height 7cm

A Police Range rover with lights 6.5cm - 1cm for track height - .5 for "bounce" while - travelling minimum bridge pier height 8cm

A Fly Racing truck is 7.5cm - 1cm for track height - .5 for "bounce" while travelling - minimum bridge pier height 9cm

Personally if a curve is crossing a "curve" I would suggest a minimum height of 10cm to allow a car below to safely "roll" when de-slotting...

Hope it helps anybody planning a flat type layout..

 

[sealevel]

Here is something to consider....

On Abcando's layout he has a "height" sign which reads 12'6" (12 feet 6 inches).

If we convert that into inches, it is (12 x 12) + 6 = 150 inches in real terms.

Now to scale it... 150" / 32 = 4.6875 inches in scale height x 2.54 cm/inch = 11.9 cm clearance.

So it looks like a "real" clearance of 10 - 12 cm is in order.

Does that look right?

Cheers!

 

[hankscorpio]

QUOTE (sealevel @ 13 Jan 2010, 04:15) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Here is something to consider....
On Abcando's layout he has a "height" sign which reads 12'6" (12 feet 6 inches).
If we convert that into inches, it is (12 x 12) + 6 = 150 inches in real terms.
Now to scale it... 150" / 32 = 4.6875 inches in scale height x 2.54 cm/inch = 11.9 cm clearance.
So it looks like a "real" clearance of 10 - 12 cm is in order.
Does that look right?
Cheers!

Absolutely right Mr Sealevel top of the class....

I use a REALLY simple rule of thumb to work out scale for 1/32 slot cars....

Measure what you want in feet... there are 30cm in a foot... so 1ft = 1cm to scale... (or near enough)

So a 6ft tall person would be 6cm tall

6 Inches is half a centimetre...

A 12ft bridge would be 12cm...

A 36inch bust would be 3cm...

nice and easy?

must be i can remember it

 

[hankscorpio]

1st BUILD PHOTOS

Hello everyone... Ive talked a lot about the planning of the build and the items to use but little construction has actually happened yet... I am posting in "real time" so no theres not one i prepared earlier to show as per blue pter... but the most distinctive part of any NASCAR layout is the wall...

The wall is PVC Angle "FFA Concept PVC Corner" Bought from B&Q (read home depot for the USA) I was gonna use it on my 1st layout but chickened out on the grounds of hard work... The angle is 30mm x 20mm x 1mm and made from a flexible PVC material. It comes in 2 lengths 1metre and 2metre, Its "white" so no painting to do and will accept stickers easily when i dress the layout and most of all, durable so no breakages from racing impacts.... and i hoped easy to cut! As track borders go its cheap £3.84 for 2 metres. Check on line before going to B&Q as not all sizes are stocked by all stores.

The 30mm part will form the "Wall" as the track is about 8mm should give a wall about 2ft6" tall when scaled up... bit low but the 40mm is a little too tall for me... the 20mm side is used to fix to the supports or the baseboard depending on where its used... Because obviously you cant bend an angle around a curve some work was going to be needed...

So I set out a curve of R2's and R3 single lane pices on the table and measured the length of the R3 outside edge... 17.6cm... this gave me the distance between supports. Starting at one end of the curve I cut a line 2cm from the end... measured 17.6cm and marked a line on the 20mm section 1 cm Either side of that I cut along the two lines i just drawn... the 2 cm section would be the "Foot" for fixing down so i scored along the 90 degree angle with a craft knife and bent the section to be removed and it snapped off cleanly leaving the tab... repeat 8 more times and you have a border with little 2cm feet at every track join!....

My R3 single lane curve has a 1.5ft Radius... 2xPIx(1.5)=9.42ft or 2.82Metres so a 180 degree curve is 1.41 metres... so a 2 metre section will do a whole 180 degree curve with some left over... I bought 5 lengths for all of the walls for the layout

The photo shows how the PVC is flexible enough to bend around the curve and thin enough to go between the R2 racing circuit and the R1 Outer pit lane... (Test piece shown in photo) It took 30 mins or so to do the first one... It took longer to take the photo's, upload and write this post... Will do the other end today and then make a start on the track supports...

One concession I am going to have to make to scale is a "centre Hole" in the layout. Normally behind the pits the "team trucks" line up obviously with 4 lanes (12inches) and a 3inch scenic part thats 30 of the 36inch width used... The hole will act as a scenic break hopefully fooling the eye to accept the space compression without the circuit looking too compressed in width.. this will also mean i should be able to get the board out of one sheet of 9mm MDF at a cost of £12.49 including being cut to the size i need... Simple

By the way... All the photo's for the build are hosted at FOTKI... Its free... yep really! No limits on space and best of all offers a single click to upload desktop program and a single copy link for posting on a forum... Just in case anybody is having trouble finding a free photo host. http://www.fotki.com/

 

[hankscorpio]

I know its off topic but I have 21 leftover bits from the Flatlands project on ebay at the moment...

If there is no bids on something make me an offer and i will put a buy it now on it for you at an alloted time so you can snatch it with full ebay securityhttp://shop.ebay.co.uk/louison/m.html?_nkw...p;_trksid=p4340

If somebody wants to build an oval "on the cheep" I also have in my spares box waiting to go up on ebay but could sell privately or as a buy it now at an allotted time.

2 boxed banked curves with supports& 2 Unboxed banked curves with supports & pack of 8 loose stage 1 banking supports.
RMS extension Kit
Pack of 4 x R3 Outer borders & Barriers
An elevated crossover (bridge)
two packs of "Track supports" the round grey ones...

If anybody is intersted PM me with an offer...

 

[hankscorpio]

Flatlands Super Speedway... Build Part 2.

Ok so i covered the making of the "Wall" for the circuit yesterday and today I have turned that into banking that is attached to the track now so the two hardest parts of the build are now complete... Sure there are some fiddly bits to come but the rest is pretty standard woodwork and scenic stuff that have done before so no major fears for me there there...

Firstly.. Building the supports

Having abandoned Scalextric standard banking in order to go to three lanes I had to build a support system for the two banked curves. It would incorporate the wall sections fixed to them to ensure it was "immovable". I am a lazy builder so I opted for balsa for the supports because its so easy to work with... The support system followed my initial idea...

I bought a 2cm x 2cm balsa rod and cut the 18 2cm cubes from it using a hobby saw then chamfered a 5degree angle (by eye) on them with a craft knife.. I then cut a 18 supports from a 5mm balsa sheet 2cm wide by 19cm long (the length arrived at by trial and error) that meant the edge of the R2 curve would just touch the baseboard so it can be fixed down these were hot glued together and a small foot placed 5cm inboard to prevent excessive flex...

In order to make the curves into a single track piece i used the Scalextric track middle fixing clips hot glued in place at the join of every R3 Singe lane curve effectively welding the track together i used 16 on each 180deg curve (50 in a pack). So the back of the curve looks like this...

I then hot glued each track support to the "foot" on the wall section described yesterday so i had what looked like a "picket fence" on the table... This was then easily curved around the joined track pieces.. I then drilled a small hole (dremel) through the track and the foot of the border either side of each of a join and put a small panel pin through them all fixing the support system to the track making one whole unit... This unit will eventually be attached to the baseboard with hot glue... Obviously i am taking an expansion risk, but the track is in a well shaded centrally heated room and it worked on the test layout so i'm confident(ish) it will be ok...

So when turned over it looks like this (I will paint the heads of the pins black soon) you can see the track support at the edge of the curve... the wall is also banked with the track as per prototype...

So with these made the "flyscreen" is at the post office waiting to be picked up, the bulbs are on order and the fence posts are already here... I have bought the wood for the frame that lays in the hall waiting for somebody to give me a hand cutting it and the baseboard material has been cut to size and sits in the car waiting for the frame to be completed...

Because the track is so close to the edge of the backboard and the flyscreen will provide some obscurity i'm planning to use a repeating "photo" backscene of a Nascar crowd... Trying to find one roughly the right scale... HEAD ON... and up to date has not been easy, thinking about using this one but would have preferred a busier grandstand...

If anybody was wondering how strong the two smaller magnets were in the cars... the dishwasher is stainless steel (really should have loaded it first

So baseboards at the weekend and with a bit of luck the whole thing should be pretty much completed within a week or so... I hate long drawn out projects...

Any questions feel free to ask...

 

[Bam]

That looks like its coming along nicely!
You thought of using photoshop to edit a grandstand pic to the correct perspective?

 

[Ember]

Have a search for 'seamless crowd textures' from your favourite search engine.

 

[hankscorpio]

QUOTE (Bam @ 15 Jan 2010, 09:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You thought of using photoshop to edit a grandstand pic to the correct perspective?

Yeah got a new laptop just after i moved last summer... paintshop pro is in a box in the loft...

will make each section 175mm which is the gap between fence posts so most joins will be obscured... hopefully

my task for the weekend to find paintshop pro! not sure exactly how to "skew" an image but will play anyway.... any advice welcomed....

 

[Bam]

Had a play with that texture. People at the front still have a bif of lean, might not look so much depending on the angle you look at or the angle they are laid, should line up at each end though and ive padded the seats out a bit with more people.

 

[hankscorpio]

QUOTE (Bam @ 15 Jan 2010, 16:59) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Had a play with that texture. People at the front still have a bif of lean, might not look so much depending on the angle you look at or the angle they are laid, should line up at each end though and ive padded the seats out a bit with more people.

Bam... Wow..

What can i say....

Many many thanks....

Copied image to my hard drive and waiting to be used... Thats saved me an afternoon digging around in the loft....

Thanks also to my son returning home from uni just to lend a hand.... all the wood for the baseboard is now cut to size...

Thanks also to Chris for the flyscreen idea... It arrived today... is flexible... easy to cut... needs no painting and best of all the holes are about 2mm which scales up to 6.4cm which is almost exactly to scale!

Hopefully with a bit of work tomorrow the baseboard will be fully assembled and ready for track laying...

good day all round!

 

[tossedman]

Great build Sean, thanks for sharing.

I'm hoping to do a similar hinged table for an HO track in my basement. It'll be 14'9" X 4'. Have you lost any cars over the back edge yet? How hard is it to retrieve them if you did? I had the thought of putting a background attached to the back edge of the table and then to the wall somehow (perhaps attached only to the table and not the wall so that it can move when the table folds up and down.). It'd be great if you could print those bleacher pictures on fabric and have them sloping away from the back of the table to the wall above. Something like this:

This is a mock up of the track I'm planning, drawn in Google SketchUp. It too will fold up against the wall in a similar fashion to yours.

Cheers

Todd.

 

[MrFlippant]

That's a good idea. Add a backdrop AND keep cars from falling behind the table.
I like your HO track, Todd, but no esses? Do you have a thread about that track? (I'll go look)

 

[hankscorpio]

QUOTE (tossedman @ 16 Jan 2010, 03:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Great build Sean, thanks for sharing.

I'm hoping to do a similar hinged table for an HO track in my basement. It'll be 14'9" X 4'.

Thanks for the encouragement... With the wood now piling up around the house I really must get on with the build or i will be in trouble!

Yeah 15ft thats long... mmmm trouble in store me thinks with experience on my side... The first part of this thread discusses the "Braced with Polystyrene" option i tried first... it didn't save me much weight.... about 2kgs but your plan is 50% longer than my board and my board is just about a "comfortable" lift... 6.5mm ply will save a lot of weight compared to chipboard or 9mm mdf... Unless you have two people to put it up and down every time consider putting all the framework on a diet! PM me if ya want to discuss options already tried and tested.

QUOTE (tossedman @ 16 Jan 2010, 03:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Have you lost any cars over the back edge yet? How hard is it to retrieve them if you did?

My board is 4'6" wide at its widest and 3ft in the middle section... I lost a lot of cars down the back within days...but at 3ft wide i could reach them with a pair of kitchen tongs or a "mechanical grab" bought from a charity shop... it just caused a consderable race interruption... In the end i had to remove the layout from the wall and put a small "Barrier" 7cm was enough all the way along to prevent losing cars.... a necessity me thinks! and also at the ends as well to stop any expensive accidents... I had a couple of "sky rockets to the floor " at one ungurded section before realising how important the edging barriers could be!

At a board width of 4ft every car derailing on the back section will require extra reach... (if you are using DIGITAL make sure the tongs are plastic as there is 16v ac in the rails at all times) i would suggest buid a small track on a 4ft wide board at the height you intend the final layout to be from the ground and "Practice getting cars retrieved... The problem is not getting them... its getting them back in the slots without bringing them to the front... if you have kids playing they stand no chance of reaching... I'm 5'9" and 3ft is as far as i can reach comfortably... you may be taller or have longer arms... consider having some 3ft wide sections to enable easier recovery in accident black spots (any r1 curves or crossover points) or a least ensure all the tight corners are toward the front of the layout.

Weight is your enemy unless you use cables from the front of the layout over a "pully" attached to the wall to a counterweight that rises as the front of the table falls down... but the front of the layout needs to"fall" 4 feet, the counterbalance will need to rise the same amount in height!.... or use "arms" like on a the tailgate of a "hatchback" type car to take some of the weight as the layout unfolds and assist with lift when folding it back up.... new ones are very EXPENSIVE... get to a scrapyard they can be picked up cheaply!

I solved my problem with a low weight solution...

QUOTE (tossedman @ 16 Jan 2010, 03:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I had the thought of putting a background attached to the back edge of the table and then to the wall somehow (perhaps attached only to the table and not the wall so that it can move when the table folds up and down.). It'd be great if you could print those bleacher pictures on fabric and have them sloping away from the back of the table to the wall above.

Love the picture...

mmmm see where you are coming from... Moving anthing up and down 4ft away is tricky... If you make a "wall" at the back of the layout from timber say 3cm High and 3cm deep you could use a "double hinge" like the sort used on "cowboy" doors they are fairly cheap.... fix them to the top of the backrail then fix another pice of timber say 15cm high onto the other side of the hinge... Then when you want to use the layout fold the hinged section backards to give the sloped grandstand view... then when you put the layout away you just fold it forwards flat against the layout.... this saves having to have such a thick frame... every inch in height on the layout is an inch further the front has to be from the wall!

Hope that helps...

PM me if ya want to discuss further... can take pics of my current board for a few more days before it gets dismantled and replaced by the nascar layout... then i can start on my new GT1 track! (wood already here and waiting!)