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What are your feelings on R1/Tight bends?

8878 Views 71 Replies 27 Participants Last post by  Si.
Just curious as to what those with experience of putting together different track layouts have experienced with R1 bends/hairpins/chicanes?

As a severe Motorsport enthusiast I am mocking up layouts and very quick to throw one r1 combination bend somewhere in each layout I come up with if nothing elsefor variety and a different type of challenge.

I am worried with slot cars it may not be so much of a good idea?

Do they ruin the fluid tempo of a track with deslots or do you like having them there?

I am leaning towards trying them out but its an expensive gamble to blow money on them if thy are gonna cause hassle?

any thoughts welcome
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It`s great how people just assume things about other folk.
Some people must have ridden a very different Donnington and Cadwell to me, I can't think of any corners at either of those circuits that would be represented by a Scaley R1.
True, but most people don't have the 1:32 space It requires to replicate a real life track. My available space is 6 x 1 m. If It wasn't for R1's, the options for a interesting track are very limited If R1's wouldn't exist. And besides that, combined with other radius corners I like the variety and challenge.
We see this sort of thread occasionally, and I STILL fall into them. Should know better. I hope no one took offence at my posts.

Whatever works for you, works for you. As long as we can all enjoy OUR own setup, then all for the good.
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Snurfen - I can't see any offensive posts made by you.

Just for the record, I like R1s without borders for rally special stages, they make a really good driving challenge, and they're okay on road courses so long as they aren't in a 180 degree hairpin as the inside line of this is a bit tight.

But they do look like taking a tight line on a mini roundabout, I think the gap across a 180 bend is about 6", so that's the same as the width of two lanes of Scaley track, I can't think of any real world hairpins that tight, especially if you think of the racing line through them.

But, slot cars are a game, and everyone should play the game how they want to.
Bang on Minardi.

I agree - isn't it more about the feel and the driving experience than scale accuracy?

If you want scale accuracy you would need to run the cars VEEEERRRRYYYYYYY SLOOOOWWWLLLYYYYY around a track with mostly R4's in a large barn.

In my view R1s are not ridiculous if used in moderation to provide variety to a track. All R1's is as ridiculous as a 1:1 track made up entirely of hairpins (unless you are hill climbing of course).

HOWEVER if we all ran scale accurate tracks we would be running R6 down to R4 at clubs because there would be no room at home for a track.

My track has a mix of R1s, R2s and R4s. Mostly R2s but one very fast R4 90 degree, one R1 hairpin and one hairpin with a R2 lead in and lead out with 90 degrees of R1 at the apex. The point is that every lap offers a mix of corners requiring different approaches. As it is digital you can find even more variety as pitting can force you away from the fastest route and, exiting the pits, puts you into the hairpins on your non-preferred lane and requires a different style again (the inner of an R1 hairpin is very different to the outer).

If we drove scale accurately we would have to slow down to boring speeds simply because we wouldn't want our scale accurate drivers to be subjected to 10g's of sideways pressure - after all filling their delicate little eggshell hollow bodies back up with goo and gluing their heads back on can be so tedious and cleaning mashed co-driver off the side windows always leaves a film

I enjoy variety in a track - isn't that why none of us run standard box sets? I like my 4 metre straight with its R4 slow down but I also like my twisty R2 sections and my challenging R1 hairpins. The hairpins are usually where I pull away from the competition (or get shunted off because I didn't take it well enough!). When we are running 6 transits or super resistant Ferraris - we can all hoof it at 100% on the straights, it's the wiggly bits where the race is won and lost.
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The old 1960s Scalex cars are a lot slower than todays models, but I never find them boring. Same with my 1960`s 1/40 Jouef slot layout.
I also run a slot club, & newer people to the hobby love to race those NSRs & Slot-Its. I wouldn`t, but it`s horses for courses.
Since we can't "steer" a slot car, acceleration, deceleration, elevations and varying corner radii are what make a track challenging.
im finaly putting something in,
Its in the designers preference, i personally like them, they make racing good. ive put a r1 270 degree corner in a track thats going to be donated to a digital club, that may have total novices driving on, and for a 1:1 track that has an equivelent to a r1, Forrest's elbow at Bathurst may help people,
Hi All,
This is shaping up to be another great slot can of worms to add to the list (digital vs analogue, mag vs no mag, collecting vs racing, etc).
I've got R1s in my layout, and as it's a long thin space I couldn't do much without them. I use them with other radii to try to make interesting bends.

What I don't like are R1 90/180deg hairpin bends. I assumed that it was the strict geometry that put me off, they always made the track look a bit toylike... but was thinking about R1s in the bath last night (as you do) and I'm beginning to think it's more of a scale sort of thing, or at least how they relate to the size & performance of the cars (not sure if that's quite the same thing).
Here's the 'glass of red in the bath' explanation, hoping to avoid the various traps of scale accuracy, speed, etc:

On a standard 180deg R1 hairpin, the two lanes represent real world diameters of about 6.3m and 11.1m, so the racing line, if it was a real life hairpin, would be about 11m. Looking at the turning circles of real cars, at parking speed only small cars/black cabs/triumph herald could get round that on full lock:
mini 8.7m
mini (bmw) 10.6m
transit 10.8m
porsche 997 10.9m
jag e type 11m
audi r8 11.8m
bugatti veyron 12m
maserati mc12 12.2m
mclaren f1 13m
hummer h2 13.2m

Given a small increase in speed and the effects of gradually applied turning lock and understeer I would suggest that the majority of cars wouldn't be able to negotiate an R1 without using the handbrake. I think this is why F1 and LMP cars look wrong & behave poorly on R1 hairpins
Although the photos earlier in the thread are all of tight 90 & 180 deg bends, I think the important difference is the width of the track, and therefore the radius of the racing line. So my feeling is that R1s look right for a rally type track, but that's about all. I'd really like to see Scalextric do a R1.5 instead, which would give much more visually realistic hairpins.

(ps: herald 7.6m, black cab 8m)
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Scaly do make an R1.5 its an R1 + R2 a sharp knife and about ten minutes work. Simples!
Interesting post Richard!
Just for your reference , the curves I pictured on post 26 are old Scalextric PT51 45 degree standard curves & PT53 22.5 degree outer curves.

PS An interesting addition to a curved section on your Scaley layout is the old PT85 curved chicane.

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QUOTE (richardtheforth @ 9 Jan 2012, 15:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Although the photos earlier in the thread are all of tight 90 & 180 deg bends,

Just to clarify, I was referring to the pix of 1:1 circuits.

Kev, I've got a load of those, some chicane straights and a Goodwood in a box somewhere in the loft. They work really nicely as a 180deg hairpin in my opinion. Oh for a bigger loft...
Get them on the layout man Richard!

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SCX make radius 1 and radius 2 chicane bends, but with aluminium rails which don't give as good conductivity as the steel rails, but if you copper tape them they work fine.
QUOTE (MrFlippant @ 9 Jan 2012, 06:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I agree that an R2 bend is more "scale accurate" for a hairpin turn than an R1 turn. R1 turns are tighter than those cars would even be ABLE to turn, especially on the inside. But, other than the cars themselves (and even that is debatable), what is "scale accurate" about our tracks? The straights are severely truncated, and the rest of the turns are still too tight for scale accuracy outside R2 as hairpins and then R4s for tight non-hairpin turns. Even large tracks are still woefully under sized. Routed tracks provide more freedom, but they're still limited to the size of the room its in. Our tracks are "scale accurate" for go-kart tracks, and then only maybe.

There isn't a slot car I can't drive around a Scaley R1 turn. Fly trucks? No problem. Scaley Moto GP? No problem. I've even run 1/24 scale brass chassis wing cars around my track, including all 3 turns with R1 pieces in them. Most magless, and some magnet. In every case, the vehicle needs to be driven in a particular way to get through it successfully.

Sorry but have to disagree, have you ever seen the club circuit hairpin at Cadwell Park? This is used by cars, motorbikes and karts. This is a real stop and go hairpin, a real test of braking skill.

A couple of the hairpins at Olivers Mount, Scaraborough are also like this.

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I think there's a difference between a car being able to get around a corner vs a car being able to get around the corner in a way that does not feel uncomfortable, unnatural & "jerky". I've driven some tracks that had some parts in them that were not even so much hard but just did not seem "right" as, the cars unnaturally "jerked" through curves. That being said, if it works for you it works for you.
That's pretty close. Even closer is the tip of the Club circuit where there's a hairpin 180 at what is normally turn 11. That's even tighter, and probably about as close as any track comes to an R1 turn. That's a nice looking track, but it's the exception that proves the rule. ;-)

But hey, man, I'm on your side. I love R1 turns, and I love them even more now that I can point to Cadwell Park. ;-)
richardtheforth, I hereby volunteer to offer keeping your unused R1s, Goodwood chicane and other bits from getting rusty through lack of use

as an aside, I saw a guy get knocked clean out after piledriving himself into the tarmac at that chicane - thankfully he was perfectly alright after a weeks rest and us filling in a few blanks for him - but the aftermath was like the keystone cops - still tease the players of the piece about it mercilessly.

Chat yam - ever wallop the tyres with helmet or shoulder on that Cadwell hairpin? It duffed me up on more than one occasion. Learnt my lesson, eventually.
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"Gee this threads EXCITEING !"

"I bet you guys are all real Lee Marvin fans !"

Me too.


P.M. me anyone who wants to get rid of their R1's cheap.
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