[truescale]

Asked recently by a major manufacturer and an organization head, about the "Scale" make-up of a "Scratch built" slot cars, that will be made available (and raced in it's own class) in our future by a few manufactures using standard guidelines, I wanted to share part of my conversation here.

For a chassis to be considered a "Scale chassis" it should be:
1. One that is all metal.
2. One that has plenty of adjustments (by soldering or fasteners) for tuning and different bodies, etc.
3. It should also have the ability to fit different motor types.
4. One that uses the conventional guide and axle system.

A Scale body is one that:
1. Measures out to be similar to the 1:1 real car.
2. Made detailed or with the ability to be detailed properly.
3. A shell rather than a heavy think casting (resin)
4. Must have a ridged feel (vacuum formed) not too thin.
5. Must not vary much on any dimension so as to, make any part of the body clear tires, motor, or the guide.

After 29 years of "Scale" scratch building I feel that this is part of what determinds a chassis or body is to be considered "Scale" or True Scale.

I am proud to have been selected by a couple major contacts for my input.

After helping to promote Scale scratch built type slot cars for over twenty years we going to finaly see some changes on our hobby here in the U.S.A.

My fellow builders and racers in Europe and Asia have always kept Scale active in their racing programs

I feel that you my fellow Scratch builders can add to this.

[email protected]

Victor

 

[Swissracer]

Oh no!

Sorry Victor but I hope we are not talking factory race teams again???
This is what killed the hobby last time round no?

As for your chassis requirements, there are alot of them already out there that fit your description - Plafit, Momo, Sakatsu to name but three.
I also debate why they have to be metal, you negate great chassis like the Slot.It HRC that way.

 

[JohnP]

I was just about to write "here we go again" but Swissracer beat me to it...

 

[truescale]

Hi I forgot to mention that this topic was for 1/24 future commercial (and club) track racing. Which we have some semi scale type already and some clubs running only scale slot cars.

Also the Plafit, Momo, Sakatsu chassis are the best and are part of this "Scratch built" Scale racing future here as it has been elsewhere already for many years.

The US is slowly evolving back to having some scale racing. We do have some clubs and commercial scale racing here already but next year, there seems to be some plans for more emphasis on scale cars all around.

Metal because or the ability to withstand heavy crashes, accept soldering or hardware and just because of feel and appearance.

The Slot-it HRS is the best chassis for 1/32 Scratch built cars everyone knows. I happen to love the chassis. It is not just plastic it is a "Filled" plastic which is very good for plastic chassis. Very durable!

The new chassis for 1/32 that are in development in different parts of the world will certainly help our 1/32 scale chassis void.

I know guys... "Here we go again" with this "Scale" stuff! It's my job to promote scale racing here. Have done for more than 20 years.

I can't stop

Victor

 

[Swissracer]

Don't get me wrong Victor, I love the idea of 'scale racing'.
My main problem as one who wants to see the hobby grow (in whatever scale) is that manufacturer race series and Factory teams caused the collapse last time round and I would have thought there would be a massive reluctance to go that way again, especially in the States where the collapse hit hardest.

I vote YES! to scale racing but NO to factory Teams running in their own devised race series - learn from the mistakes of last time guys.

Your addition that this is aimed at 1/24th scale is interesting, to date SlotForum does not really support this scale, mainly because it is new to myself and Nuro. If there is enough interest we can do a 1/24th area. I will post a poll to see if you guys want.

I added a 'poll' - HERE

 

[truescale]

Thanks Swiss, My mistake.

I did not realize this was a 1/32 area. I respect that thanks for letting me know.
You can remove it if you would like.

To answer your question, I don't think that factory teams is what I have been discussing or what they maybe planning on. I will check on that. I certainly don't what to see what happend before again.

Victor

 

[Swissracer]

QUOTE You can remove it if you would like.

Certainly not!

It is going to be an interesting thread I feel. I MAY move it to a 1/24 area if the demand is there Victor.

 

[Mecoprop]

Given a choice, I MUCH prefer adjustable metal chassis for 1/32 compared with plastic. Plastic has its uses but there is nothing quite like proper metal for versatility.

It would be hard to pin down a single reason for the decimation of slotting in the USA.
It's not often mentioned, but imho, the simple fact that the commercial scene was virtually exclusively 1/24 scale was significant and contributory.

 

[Ken R]

Call me the average home user. My definition of scale is simple.

1/32 scale cars ought to look 1/32nd the size of the prototype the model represents.

In other words, body shape, driver, wheels, tyres, logos etc are all scale replicas of an original prototype.

As for chasis and running gear, whatever it takes to make the model run with some degree of "umph" and a definite "limit" are all I need - scale is not an issue as long as it doesn't botch the outward scale appearance of the model.

once one tries to homologate the hobby into a set of rules and standards much of the appeal is lost for me - i like the variety in performance and the subtleties, for instance, betewen a Fly Porsche 908 and their Lola Mk III.

1/24 serious club racing on commercial tracks with winged thingies, rocket motors, 2 ohm controllers, standard chasis...I'm not at all interested thanks.

MESAC (the legendary California club of the late 60's/70's) with their attention to protoype accuracy and scale representations of real racing cars...now thats my defenition of scale.

cheers, Ken R

 

[vfr750]

I don't think scale needs to mean poor performance. That's what manufacturers such as TSRF and Slot It are about.

It wouldn't take much to improve the appearance of BSCRA type cars either, decent size wheels and tyres would be a start.

Ultimately, there will always be a compromise between appearance and performance. It's a pity there isn't a body similar to BSCRA but with an emphasis on scale appearance to promote a national race series.

Cheers,

John

 

[BEEJAY7]

Interesting Thread Chaps.

I think the last thing the hobby needs is a return to almost exclusive 1/24th running, with factory teams "sponsoring" the best drivers.

This is one of the things that put me and I'm sure others off the then ECRA scene in the Seventies. 1/32nd became a dying art, almost a secondary event supporting 1/24th, and then they started to evolve these "things" you see today masquerading as Slot cars, i.e. enormous wings and no front wheels.

The Slot car scene has moved on so much in the last few years and it would be a great mistake to go back to these bad old days.

I really think our National, (by that I mean UK), organisational body (BCRA) should take note of what is going on in the market place and start placing more emphasis on what I call Scale slot car racing, i.e. products like Scalex, Fly, Slot.it etc. this is surely where the future of our hobby lies.
I know some Clubs are starting to do this, but others are still reluctant and their dwindling numbers of members show the diminishing interest in this area of racing..

For those that like to scratchbuild etc, there is still room in the hobby for them, and they should be encouraged.

My own local Club, used to have 20 to 30 regular members and now has 5, and they will not depart from the set BCRA format, and they run almost exclusively these 1/24th monsters.

Sorry the post is so long, but this thread was too good an opportunity to miss!.

Alan

P.S. Anyone interested in "Scale" 1/32nd racing in the Bath area, please contact me off-line and perhaps we may get things going locally.

 

[Ecurie Martini]

QUOTE (truescale @ 1 Dec 2003, 03:25 PM)For a chassis to be considered a "Scale chassis" it should be:
1. One that is all metal.
2. One that has plenty of adjustments (by soldering or fasteners) for tuning and different bodies, etc.
3. It should also have the ability to fit different motor types.
4. One that uses the conventional guide and axle system.

A Scale body is one that:
1. Measures out to be similar to the 1:1 real car.
2. Made detailed or with the ability to be detailed properly.
3. A shell rather than a heavy think casting (resin)
4. Must have a ridged feel (vacuum formed) not too thin.
5. Must not vary much on any dimension so as to, make any part of the body clear tires, motor, or the guide.
QUOTE

I fully support the explicit sentiment of this post having abandonned slot cars in '64 when rainbow colored tires and comic book bodies appeared. That said, I have a few comments on the specific formula for implementation implied:

1. Metal chassis - certainly an option but not the only viable one. Engineering plastics and precision die casting (viz the camera business) offer possibilities that can extend the range of choices - albeit at a cost of investment.

2. Adjustment - fasteners, adhesives and high performance double faced tape (like that used for installing auto glass) can be used with non-metallic chassis.

3. Different motor types: Again, an option but there is also an arguement that can be made for a well made motor/drive assembly that fits the widely available FK cans

4. What is a "conventional" guide and axle system? Both pivoting and pin guides have a long history - there are advantages to each. I would prefer a stipulation that the guide must be under the body rather than projecting like the ramming bow of a trireme. Axles? I prefer 3/32" for both 1/32 and 1/24 cars but, as an example, Al Penrose, whose BWA wheels are among the best available, bores his 1/24 wheels to 1/8" and 3mm is also commonly used.

Bodies:

1. Measurements: agreed

2. Detailed: This is a tough call. Some details are obvious - exhaust pipes, drivers, windscreens and proper wheel inserts - others offer a sort of "Hobson's choice" does one make rear view mirrors beefy enough to survive the first crash or make them to scale with a correspondingly short half life? I think that this is very much an individual question

3. A shell rather than a heavy casting - what is the agenda here? Resing shells can be made or ground thin and there are some pretty tough casting resins around. If I want to risk my $80 Fisher C4R resin body in a race and accept the weight distribution penalty - I think that that is my choice - I may make up the points in concours or my own building enjoyment.

4. "Rigid feel" - The only point I see here is one of durability. After all, if one correctly models a real car, the body should be made from aluminum (sorry, forgot that this is a European board - aluminium) foil. First, let me stipulate that I know that vacuum formed bodies in durable plastic can be painted and detailed to produce superb models. That aside, it is obvious that, barring injection blow molding in a female mold, thinner plastic allows finer definition of detail in sheet formed bodies -i.e. vacuum forming.

5. Varying dimensions to clear motors, tires etc. Good point - the biggest problem I see is the need to accomodate readily available drive components under the low rear decks of modern mid-engined cars or in the narrow tails of old F 1 cars. ( more of a problem with 1/32 than 1/24) I would add to that a stipulation that the body contours not be distorted to accommodate molding systems - not a problem with the current crop of slab-sided cars but a real issue in, for example, modeling the extreme tumble home of a D-Jag or the proper contour of the tail of a Lancia Ferrari or a 250F.

One area I find curiously missing - wheels and tires: IMHO (or perhaps not so "H" for those who know me) nothing so strongly impacts the "impression of reality" as properly (or improperly) dimensioned wheels and tires. Although this is particulary critical for models of older cars, even modern cars, especially when seen from the rear, should look like they are running on the pavement, not smoothing it!

My E 0.017

EM

 

[Tropi]

1/24 is an oddity, in its way, particularly in the UK market.
I think it's a little bit chicken and egg in that the cars quite obviously require bigger tracks than 1/32. But few homeowners have the space needed and, without suitable tracks to run on, they are unlikely to find 1/24 cars very desirable. So 1/24 tends very largely to remain the territory of commercial organisations or highly organised clubs.

1/32 is a much more convenient scale in every way and I don't see 1/24 EVER regaining anywhere near the fleeting popularity it had in the 60s, not even in the USA . It may not die out altogether, but it will remain a small and specialised niche market for the 'die-hards'. That term is NOT meant in even a slightly derogatory sense!

If enough interest is shown here in 1/24, I feel sure a 1/24 board could be provided to accommodate it, but I see it as very nearly a separate hobby from 1/32 scale cars. 1/24 is pretty serious stuff and getting too serious tends to kill the fun aspect to some degree at least. In that sense, I think 1/24 DID help to almost kill slot racing in the USA.

 

[JoeAngelicchio]

I thought 1/24 was BIG(popular) in Europe?

 

[Russell Sheldon]

I must admit that I really do enjoy racing 1/24th scale cars. One of the best events that I have ever participated in was the IMCA "World Championship" race that was held in Belgium in 2002, using Revell-Monogram based NASCAR bodies on Momo or Plafit chassis.

Kind regards,

Russell

 

[vfr750]

When I built my track, I built it with 4" between lanes just so I had the option to run 1:24.

Cheers,

John

 

[JoeAngelicchio]

QUOTE (Russell Sheldon @ 7 Dec 2003, 05:45 AM)I must admit that I really do enjoy racing 1/24th scale cars. One of the best events that I have ever participated in was the IMCA "World Championship" race that was held in Belgium in 2002, using Revell-Monogram based NASCAR bodies on Momo or Plafit chassis.

That is amazing detail Russell.

That's why I'll be concentrating on 1/24 & 1/25 more. Where did you get the tires? They seem more scale size then others I've seen.

 

[Russell Sheldon]

Hi Joe

I'm afraid that we have hijacked Victor's thread!

Thank you for your kind comments. The car actually won the concours d'elegance.

Here's a picture of me holding the trophy to prove it... I'm the old fat guy on the left... I actually just wanted an excuse to post this pic because of the beautiful girl who handed out the trophies...

The wheels/tyres are made by Scaleauto. Pro Track also make some nice 1/24th scale wheels, available from AB Slotsport:

Kind regards,

Russell