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Andy Player
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If you want to run a Super-G+ here is a summary of the rules:



Note the black mags and the minimum tyre height


Will there be more Micro Scalextric cars on the grid in September? I have it on good authority that there might be at least one. Plus the top Tycos did very well last time out - knocking on the door of the 'A' final...



But the Mega-G is still the car to beat. Ever since Simon won 18 months ago, no other chassis has won in F1. Clive is hoping to be back with his winning car from March.



We have the ISU guide pin available now.
 

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QUOTE (LeeH @ 18 Aug 2012, 23:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I will be there, hmmm, tyco, mega g or super g+???? Decisions, decisions

I hope Andy and Robin won't mind me saying this but the SG+ is a little hamstrung by the current regulations so I'd advise against racing one. It is possible to get to the top finals with it but the car and driver need to be really on it to make that happen!

I hope next year the SG+ rules are tweaked to either include the gray dot magnets on tall tyres or the black magnets on unrestricted tyrs. Some testing is required to find the right balance but that would be awesome to see.
 

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The SG+ in either of those configurations would probably muller everything else, then the users of other chassis would be equally selfish and want a rules tweak in their favour, and on and on and....

Parity is hard to find, especially when there are so many other variables to skew things, and it's a thankless task. Remember the Mega-G vs Tyco national stuff?


If, and I say if, a rules tweak goes slightly against a discontinued chassis that is no bad thing, IMHO. I think Andy would agree.

QUOTE It is possible to get to the top finals with it but the car and driver need to be really on it to make that happen!
But that is how it should be anyway.
 

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Andy Player
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The evolution of F1 is very much towards the chassis that are in production now and in the foreseeable - that's the Mega-G and the Micro Scalextric.

The Tycos were good last time out and I do think there is scope for someone to spend some time with either a SG+ or Life Like M to get them competitive, but the rules are deliberately as they are to make it a real car-builder's challenge.

The SG+ is tricky on the tall tyres, but blisteringly fast. However, I wouldn't necessarily take my performances this year as the pinnacle of the Super-G's potential.

With not the greatest SG+ and no practice before the heats, I qualified 5th & 7th in the two races this year. In both races I improved by 20% in the second two heats (the first two being my practice laps). Adjusting my 3rd best score accordingly, that puts me comfortably in the 'A'.

Although it's time for me to try another car for the last two races, the opportunity is there for others to keep working on getting the Tyco, M-car and SG+ up there
 

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The Tyco is still in production as well....although I hear the tyres are practically square they're so bad!

I do completely understand that the rulesill are geared towards chassis in production but I still like the idea of four or five chassis types all competing at the top of the competition!
 

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I agree with the sentiment, in fact I pioneered that in the UK, but in reality it is hard to get that without a lot of tinkering.

QUOTE The Tyco is still in production as well.

I think it is a bit of s stretch to say the Tyco is still being made. I think what is actually happening is that Mattel are burning through NOS of the battery version (stepped magnets, low-ohm arm) of the chassis via $3 blow-outs on their website and through sets that end up in the dumpster within a few weeks.
 

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Andy Player
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I wouldn't do yourself down Mike - you've found a car that you can drive very well in Mod and, by the look of things last Wednesday, you might think about running a Micro in F1


Daniel, on the other hand, is going well with his Mega-G.

As for Gareth's points - I think there are five chassis that could go well in WHO F1. Whether they do or not is down to the numbers of people running each of them and how much time and effort they are prepared to put in. Andrew, for example, had done the business with the Micro Scalextric chassis.

This year, the Mega and Micro have been the only cars in our F1 'A' finals; the Tyco and SG+ regular 'B' finalists. With the SG+ and Life Like M no-one has really given them a go and the Tycos are not developed as much as they could be. The M-car was known Stateside as the "Tyco-killer" - qu'est-ce que c'est ?

I'm not sure a Francesco Bernoulli car in a battery pack counts as the narrow 440x2 chassis being 'in production'. Unless Mattel suddenly starts producing a new line of F1 cars that actually run, I'm saying it doesn't
 

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Love seeing the conversation I started by just saying which options I weighting up lol. I think the unfortunate truth is that at WHO F1 its between Mega G, Tyco and Micro. At Nationals just Mega G and Tyco. I agree with Gareth that is a real shame this has happened but who knows what else could be round the corner. Would really like to see more chassis types in the F1 races as strongly believe that variety can only offer strength to the HO racing scene and more to the point F1 racing in UK is in real danger unless people keep developing the Tyco and Micro of becoming a one make championship.
 

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Andy Player
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The path WHO F1 is taking is towards the two chassis that are being produced with open wheel bodies - the Mega-G and Micro. I hope the logic is clear - these cars are readily available and are the future of HO. People can come to the club and - with a change of tyres - run the Micro cars they get at Modelzone (or wherever) or the Mega-Gs they pick up in the States (or maybe soon in the UK). And they can continue to tune these cars to make them quicker - but the scope for tuning is relatively limited.

The class is also open to chassis that have previously been produced with open wheel bodies. These are for people who enjoy building and they'll need to build a very good car to get in the 'A' final and drive it perfectly and with a big slice of luck to take a win. But the satisfaction is to take the chassis as high as it can go.

The rules are carefully thought-out and tested. However, with the rules as they are, it makes sense to run a Mega-G. The faster drivers do, so the Mega wins. The Tyco still does well in the hands of top drivers like Dave and Simon. With a few extra tweaks it might well be faster.

Andrew has done amazing things with what I would have considered the least fancied chassis in the class. Hannah's success with her dad's cars should encourage more people to run the Micro now - especially if they don't get on with the other chassis.

No-one has put the same effort into the SG+. A couple have run and I can testify that mine is thrown together and not great, but still could be an 'A' final car (see above). No-one has developed the Life Like M car - known as the "Tyco-killer" in the US - which, presumably, has been tweaked to be quicker than the quickest Tyco.

I say get building and see how far you can take those cars. Take Andrew's work with the Micro as your inspiration. Or stick with a Mega-G
 

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I have tried the SG+ route a few times at WHO. The first time I ran one was during practise for my first WHO meeting. The car went like lightning even on well worn old rubber tyres but I decided to play safe and use the Tyco club cars in the races with slightly disastrous consequences! I kind of wish I'd stuck with the SG+ and seen what had happened.

I also used one later in the year as a back up car when my Mega G nosedived off the table and suffered some serious performance sapping damage. Again on rubber tyres it was quick but the Mega Gs with silicone tyres were quicker.

I prepped two cars for the start of this years F1 season. One was a brand new SG+ chassis, fitted with the black mags, new BSRT pick ups and gears lapped in with toothpaste for an hour. The other had lapped in gears and BSRT pickups. Both were running brand new silicone tyres. One car stripped a pinion and the other had minimal grip and I was struggling to slow it down off of the straight. Neither of them could keep up with my Mega G even before it had a tyre change to new silicones.

I'm not sure what else to do with them beyond looking for ultra straight axles and boiling chassis!

The M car I have would need serious work to get it to be as quick as a Tyco. I ran it at the FLBT round of EAHORC for two heats and it was slow on the straights, not very grippy and not particularly fun. Messing with the tyre heights would improve things so I will try that eventually. I need to work through that How To guide that is out there.
 

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Andy Player
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When you have that test track up and running, you'll have the opportunity to take a Super-G - or a Life Like M - and get it going really well.

Pretty much all HO cars get better with more running and small problems can be spotted and fixed. I suspect the stripped pinion meant something wasn't put together right at the factory.

Other things to try are different pick-up springs (softer = better handling), different tyres (AJs, PVTs, JelClaws), different tyre heights at the front (grind the stock tyres). Maybe even ballasting the body a little. If you've got a couple more Super-Gs, you could compare strengths of the traction magnets - using Robin's method or a compass and graph paper - and then pick the strongest pair.

All those tweaks might give the SG+ better handling. Finding the right set-up is going to require testing one new component at a time and looking for improved scores over 2 or 3 minutes and an improvement to the feel of the car.

Another huge element in this process is getting used to driving the car - especially on the big tracks. Dave gets the most out of his Tyco because he's been racing it for over two years and he is 'at one' with it. It does take time to get the most out of any fast car that is not stuck down. I used a lot more brake than usual with the Super-G.

If I carried on with the SG+, I would probably get it going much better over the next 18 months. However, my priority is to try out other stuff so we can develop the class - that's my job in F1 and I enjoy it. But take what I've done with the Mega-G in Mod over the past two seasons - that's the sort of program necessary to get a SG+ going in F1.
 

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Andy Player
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Figure B is against the rules: "end-bell brush systems must be stock parts and unaltered".

Of course, that's difficult to check easily, but one word of warning: increased spring tension is great for small US-style tracks, but I find looser tension better for speed on our UK tracks (another Pro-Mod secret out of the bag).

Figure A is a grey area - the quote above suggests no, but "Electrical tabs may be reshaped but no material removed or added" says yes. I would say that you can do that. Just be careful not to break the tab off (they are fragile). No tab is worse than an unmodified tab
 

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Definitely worth picking up if it is the right version of the chassis and if it is an F1 car it should be the right one.

This version is the one you don't want to get:
http://www.modelmotorist.com/web-content/mr1l.jsp

And this is the version you want to get. In black, orange or yellow. The F1 chassis is ideal as it doesn't have the stupid lopsided body mounts.

If it comes with a screwhole over the crown gear cover it is even better as you can mount bodies with a screw. Of course in WHO Mod, you optimally want a lexan body in which case you will be mounting it with pin and tube or sticky pads.
 
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