[Mr Modifier]

Hello,

I'm new to tuning for club racing (or tuning for anything for that matter).

We have just set up a class using Ninco1 American Muscle cars.

There are some rules to limit potential costs (no point in doubling the cost - may as well have bought Slot.Its). So we are keeping the cars pretty much standard except for the removal of traction magnets and allowing free choice of tyres and general fettling.

One of the members has asked if the rules could be changed to allow the foil to be removed from the NC-11 motors.

Excuse my ignorance - but WHY is he asking this and what possible advantage could this give?

We are racing on Sport Track with the new APB and SSDC.

Thank you

 

[John Parr]

Extra magnatraction so i,m lead to believe.

 

[MrFlippant]

Depending on the motor, the wrapper holds it shut. Some people are able to open up motors and tune them to get more torque and higher RPM. Motor tuning (or tampering, depending on your point of view) is very common when things get competitive. Ninco1 motors are very slow compared to almost any other motor out there, so many people will feel like the only way to enjoy them is to tweak them to go faster.

I think that's more likely than any negligible increase in magnetic traction achieved by removing the wrapper.

 

[chris99]

MrF, so what are these tweaks to the motor, assuming you don't mean just replacing it?

I've just got my first Ninco1 and it's really slow and noisy. I've tried toothpaste to smooth out the gears, greased & oiled all & taken out the magnet but it's still a bit lumpy and slow. It almost feels like it has a speed limiter on it as it seems to reach top speed at about 75% throttle but that may be the bad meshing.

 

[Guest]

Actually Mr Flippant there can be a significant amount of magnatraction on some motors when the wrapper is removed. Try it.

 

[Ember]

If the motors are run-in in fluid, the glue of the wrapper may dissolve and the wrap fall off.

Of course, it could be as simple as wanting to hide an illegal motor swap.

Embs

 

[not alone after all]

I'd agree with Ember. Removing the foil would make it hard to identify. There are a few quick motors knocking around that would be an easy swap. The only give away of course would be the extra speed some one would display.

 

[Michael363672]

QUOTE (Mr Modifier @ 23 Aug 2012, 20:39) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>We have just set up a class using Ninco1 American Muscle cars.

There are some rules to limit potential costs (no point in doubling the cost - may as well have bought Slot.Its). So we are keeping the cars pretty much standard except for the removal of traction magnets and allowing free choice of tyres and general fettling.

Lee had one of thoes tonight as some of our guys asked about them being a class .....

And boy how bloody bad are they Nothing is round and nothing was straight into the bin it went and wont be being run.

I fear you may have wasted your cash on them, did you try one before you decided ???

Michael

 

[Ratracer]

Hi the reason that the rules don't allow the wrapper to be removed (appart from the magnetic improvement) is that the commie can be polished, cleaned and treated with fluids like VooDoo drops. As mentioned above this also helps with the running in of the motor with some running the motor in using water and metholated sprits, MBSlot fluid etc.

NINCO motors are not great these days unfortunately.

Ray

 

[Martyn_]

Interesting info folks. Thanks.

 

[pitcher]

wow..in our club we are all friends (about 12) and the notion of someone cheating , which also means lying,to their mates ,would really take the shine off.
everyone of my racing mates is trustworthy,so their word is all that's required ....I guess we are just lucky

 

[MrFlippant]

It's really cool that you are all trustworthy and no one would ever bend the rules a bit to gain an advantage. I would count you lucky, yes, especially with a dozen people. Rules are put in place to prevent cheating. If you didn't have a motor rule, you'd have people popping in faster motors. ;-)

Anyway, I know people who can pull apart a can motor and advance the timing by adjusting the brushes, or even pull the magnets out and rewind the coils. I don't know how to do it myself, but I understand that adding or removing windings can change the properties of the motor one way or another. There's also adding chemicals and such, of course.

I'm surprised that taking the wrapper off a can motor can change magnetic properties. I know that some motors (like the ones with the big holes in them) can get some downforce, though.

Oh, and yes, I agree that Ninco 1 cars are a bit rough and slow. That doesn't mean they can't be fun, though. If the only way you can have fun is with a fast, smooth car with top end parts, well.... Ninco 1 is definitely not the way to go. But, if everyone is running a slow, bumpy car with rough gear mesh, then at least everyone is even.

 

[Abarth Mike]

QUOTE (not alone after all @ 24 Aug 2012, 05:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'd agree with Ember. Removing the foil would make it hard to identify. There are a few quick motors knocking around that would be an easy swap. The only give away of course would be the extra speed some one would display.

But if I were going to do this I would use a better FK-130 motor and reinstall the foil.

NC8 is close and better? NC11?

 

[Martyn_]

Greg, I had to repair a really gummed up motor (a scaleauto) and the wrapper started to come away from the can. The difference that removing the foil made to the magnatraction was quite noticeable. Out of good faith, I stuck it back on (badly) and the magnatraction reduced again.

The whole idea behind this class is that they are low powered demagged cars to promote lots of sliding, hence give the less experienced club members some good handling practice during rAces and communal sharing of set up tips from the slightly more experienced.

Richard's club is based more on learning how to setup and race cars, as well as having a good laugh.

 

[pitcher]

hey mr flippant
There's no need to get sarcastic.
I didnt say we dont have rules, we do ,and they are adheared to ...and I wouldnt consider swapping or rewinding an arm to be "bending the rules a bit" thats just flagrant cheating.(at least it is around here)
I HAVE raced with people who would do WHATEVER they could get away with....( its funny they're always the ones to accuse everyone else too) .... all I was saying is that I'm glad to be part of a great group of friends,who have been racing together for a fair few years.
Rules are good , as is being able to trust your mates.

 

[300SLR]

Maybe the guy who wants to remove the foil knows about an advantage with higher current motors and thought it would be worth a try with lower current motors.

With much higher current motors, cooling holes significantly improves performance and reliability because the arm run cooler.
For motors with holes in the can under the foil, removing the foil opens up the holes in the can for air flow.
At lower current levels, the difference is probably negligible.

Of course this explanation only works if the motor in question does have cooling holes under the wrapper.

 

[Guest]

QUOTE (fw14b @ 23 Aug 2012, 21:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Actually Mr Flippant there can be a significant amount of magnatraction on some motors when the wrapper is removed. Try it.

I Agree with this, in fact all I do is cut the wrapper while in the car using a knife through the bottom of the car leaving the rest of the wrapper intact. You can run motors in buy use another motor as a slave, which will turn your motor and bed the brushes in without sparking the comm.

 

[not alone after all]

The faith you display in your fellow racer is admirable but, the very fact someone wants to remove the foil and the possible advantages this may give them, what does that tell you?
Don't think Mr Flippant was being sarky earlier on here. He did give a smiley wink.
And, don't think you'll fit a Slot it motor in these Ninco 1 cars. They use the short can motor. I have some very quick Cartrix and Fly motors that would fit right in and with foil off uou'd not know. Except I'd be burning past you on the straights. Even the new Ninco rally cars have a tuned version of this short can motor now.
Have fun but just tell everyone to keep the foil on.

 

[driver#8]

QUOTE (not alone after all @ 24 Aug 2012, 09:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>And, don't think you'll fit a Slot it motor in these Ninco 1 cars. They use the short can motor. I have some very quick Cartrix and Fly motors that would fit right in and with foil off uou'd not know. Except I'd be burning past you on the straights. Even the new Ninco rally cars have a tuned version of this short can motor now.
Have fun but just tell everyone to keep the foil on.

NSR Shark motors are short cans and they can spin up to 40k.

Keep the foils on and enjoy what can be a really good class for close racing - provided you've got a chassis that works. We've had major issues with some models in the N1 range that lever their guides out of the slot at every opportunity, but those that don't are great.

 

[Coopdevil]

QUOTE It almost feels like it has a speed limiter on it as it seems to reach top speed at about 75% throttle but that may be the bad meshing.

It's the gear ratio, needs an extra tooth on the pinion. I noticed this straight away with a Ninco 1 Corvette (although that car is smooth and driveable looks like I got the only decent one!)

Coop