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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
No doubt I'm in over my head, but a project that I'm intent on building is the 1970 Ferrari 312B F1. I now have the excellent Classic fiberglass shell (thanks Andy at ABSlotSport!) to serve as the foundation. But, alas, this shell does not come with the front or rear wings.

So, off to the planning table I go. First, has anyone (Russell, David, John, etc., etc.) scratchbuilt wings for F1 cars of this era? If so, any suggestions on what thickness of styrene I should work with?

Actually, at least for the front wings, I was considering chopping up a white Scalextric Indy Racing League car. I might even be able to use the IRL rear wing as a foundation for the backend of the Ferrari. Still, lots of grinding and possible putty work.

Along these lines, does anyone have a schematic of exactly how the rear wing was attached to the 312B? Russell's picture in the proxy race thread is awesome, but it really doesn't seem to show how the wing is attached to the car. From what I can tell from pictures, the raised, mid portion of the rear wing runs from the top of the wing down to the body. It sort of looks like a upside down triangle and seems to hold the wing to the body. Am I way off on this?

Anyway, I'd appreciate any suggestions.
Steve
 

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QUOTE does anyone have a schematic of exactly how the rear wing was attached to the 312B
Steve, you might find this link useful:

1/12 Tamiya Kit Manuals

There is a complete manual for building the 1/12 scale Tamiya Ferrari 312B right there - should give you more than enough detailing info to win the concourse!

No pressure


Also, and I shudder to think what they must have looked like but I did make models of the Ferrari B3, T and T2 back in the 70's. I used old tin can to make up the wings - easy to cut, easy to solder and strong!
 

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Alan Tadd
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Glad you're going to take part Steve, I'm sure you'll enjoy building it......


Rear wing looks very similar to some of the seventies Scalextric cars which seem to come up frequently on Ebay and sell pretty cheaply. You'll need to modify the central section, although this could be done in Milliput or similar and then carved to shape.
As for the front wings I would use Plasticard again fairly straighforward apart from the mounting method. Take a look at David Lawson's thread on building his Lola and you might be able to use his method of "scouring " out a groove for the wing to sit in.

Regards

Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks gentlemen!
Yes, Bill, that is the correct car. Great shots -- thanks. The photos on one of those sites provides better images of Exoto's model than are on Exoto's Web site!

Thanks for the tips Alan. I have seen David's thread, but I couldn't recall if he said what thickness of plasticard/styrene he used. I have to tell you, I hate cutting plastic. I can never get a straight, clean line, even with a sharp knife.

Ebay might be a possibility. Although, I was amazed when I saw a used Scaley Brabham go for over $30 U.S. Seems high to me.

Oh, John, it's time to lower your expectations.
I'm not sure I could make parts from a tin can even look like, well, a tin can.

Thanks again,
Steve
 

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Scalextric made a decent 312 B2 shell that I intend to one day modify into a 312B. In any event, the rear wing needs to have the front extension, that appears to function as the roll hoop, cut off and it leaves a great wing to use on the 312B. Use a piece of thin styrene with a slot cut in it and the wing should fit right in.
 

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Steve

This is a photo I've used for the rear wing location, it clearly shows the link to the roll hoop and rear suspension bulkhead.



Here's a couple of pictures that show the wing fairly clearly - you've chosen a car with probably the most complex aerofoil with lots of components so it would be better to simplify it, if you build it to scale you'll deserve the concours prize for that alone!





I use a metal rule and a new blade when cutting plasticard by the way - start with light pressure to score the plastic and ensure the line is straight then work slowly gradually cutting through the plastic, if you don't press too hard the blade should keep to the line.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks David. Fantastic photos. That first shot will be a huge help. As usual since I began visiting Slotforum, you are a tremendous resource and I greatly appreciate your insight (as well as that of others here). Unfortunately, there aren't many vintage F1 fans in the United States -- well, at least not immediately in my vicinity.

David wrote... "Here's a couple of pictures that show the wing fairly clearly - you've chosen a car with probably the most complex aerofoil with lots of components so it would be better to simplify it, if you build it to scale you'll deserve the concours prize for that alone!"

Yep, I'm not the brightest bulb in the world.
Uh, I have a feeling that Prof. Fate and crew will be awarding the concours award to someone of vastly greater ability than I.


Oh, and thanks for the tips Jhardy. I'll have to look around for one.

Anyway, this is fun!


Steve
 

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Al Schwartz
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QUOTE First, has anyone (Russell, David, John, etc., etc.) scratchbuilt wings for F1 cars of this era? If so, any suggestions on what thickness of styrene I should work with?

Although not among the above, I have built wings, most recently for a Riley & Scott. I made them in sheet styrene - looking at the pics of the Ferrari wing, I would suggest something between 0.015 and .020" for the airfoil and endplates and about 0.030" for the upright.. the Riley and Scott is also a "two plane" wing (like the rear edge of the Ferrari wing) - I scored the wing section and bent it and held it bent with a clip while glueing on the end plates. The supports were also made from styrene. I bent a piece of music wire into a narrow "U" and epoxied the legs of the "U" to the supports ant the bottom to the underside of the wing. You could extend the arms of the "U" through the body and cement them from below - but - a word of caution - the resin in the Classic bodies is brittle and if the wing is hit hard enough to carry it away, there is a fair chance that some of the body will go with it.

If I were to model this wing, I would try to do it in 9 pieces: - 4 end plates, 2 lower forward sections, two rear upper sections and the central support. Although there is most likely an air gap between the forward and aft wing sections, I would cheat and glue one to the other and then glue a narrow "shelf" on either side to the support for the inner end plates to rest on.

FWIW

EM
 

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Al Schwartz
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Now you have me started - I love problems - Looking at the pic of the support



(Thank you, David)

The following thought occurs:

1. Form up the roll bar - looks to be about 1.5 " so perhaps 0.045" music wire

2. Solder another piece of music wire to the peak of the roll bar -clean the music wire well and use a good acid flux or silver solder and it solders well - this piece appears to be perpendicular to the plane of the roll bar

3. come back a bit and bend the new wire up so that when the roll bar is at its angle, this extension will be horizontal

4. at the rear of the wing, bend the wire down 90 degrees to meet the body.

5. the end of the wire and the ends of the roll bar should be long enough to be cemented into holes in the body.

6. fill in with a triangle of plastic and add the wings

All of the above is untried speculation.

EM
 

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Also in looking at the top view of David's picture, the two air intakes behind the rear wing can be replicated quite easily if you happen to have a spare Scalextric Yardley BRM laying around. It has a similar design and look and I plan to use these on my 312B. You'll need to cut them off and fill them a bit. In fact, this just might inspire me to actually get going on it again. Good Luck and post pictures.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Wow! Thanks EM!
Lots to digest here. I'm not sure my soldering skills are up to it, but I really like the concept you're proposing and I'm going to try it. I also like what you're proposing as far as thickness of the styrene for the airfoil/wing.

Ah! The surprising thing is as I was drawing up preliminary ideas for the wing, I was also thinking of about nine sections to the airfoil. I think I can do this. The only thing I don't quite understand is the description for the aft portion of the wing. Can you help me there a bit? My plan, albeit potentially flimsy, was going to actually separate the two forward and aft portions and glue it all together with the end pieces. But, now that I think about it, it might be too delicate, which I don't want.

JHardy -- thanks for the tip. I'll need to check it out again, but I believe the Classic shell comes with the air intakes already molded in (unless I'm looking at the wrong thing).

Steve
 

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Al Schwartz
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QUOTE The only thing I don't quite understand is the description for the aft portion of the wing. Can you help me there a bit?

I'll try: The aft section of the wing has two planes - the wider front section and a slightly cocked up bit at the rear; I'd try to make it in a single piece deeply scored near the rear edge which is then bent up a bit and held while glueing to the end plates. the separate forward bit would then be cut from another piece of plastic and glued to the bottom of the after section to form a very shallow "stair step" If you use one of the welding type liquid plastic cements this assembly will be as strong as a single piece of plastic. To further strengthen the assembly, you might drill a small hole in the center support with corresponding holes in the inner end plates and epoxy a single piece of music wire under the two wings, set, for example in the little step at the rear of the glued-on front piece and passing through the center section.

The assembly routine would be something like this: With the wings completed, pass a piece of music wire through the center support and extending on both sides. pass the wire through the hole on the inner end plate of one wing and solvent weld the inner plate to the center support - repeat for the other side and then use an epoxy cement to fasten the wire to the underside of the wings.

AS I think about it, this whole assembly will be a lot stronger if, instead of using a piece of plastic cemented in to form the triangle in the center support as I suggested earlied, you used a bit of metal - brass or thin steel sheet - and soldered it to the wire frame. Now it can be a bit tricky to keep the whole thing together while soldering in this second part. There are several approaches: If you have a small butane torch, you can use a high temperature true silver solder to braze the two pieces of wire together first (would make fo the stongest joint) - or- barring this, if you have a friendly local jewelery repairman, you might persuade him to do it for you. As an alternative. you could form the wire, solder the brass triangle in first and then, with some damp clay or paper towel on the brass, solder the wire joint at the roll bar.

Hope this helps and , while it may seem like a lot of work for just one part of the model, my impression is that this complex wing is one of the defining characterisitics of this car and will be well worth the time spent.

Good Luck!

EM
 

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More information you probably don't need...
I made my Chaparral wings from thin styrene folded over at the leading edge, enclosing a piano wire bracket. The vertical arms of the the bracket stick out through pin holes in the lower surface. If the wing has a thick chord, you need a little spacer bar between the folded surfaces to keep everything regular, flat and even. Piano wire then slips into brass tube uprights soldered to chassis.
 

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Just thought I'd update everyone -- nope, unfortunately no pictures, unless you want to see a bunch of scraps thrown all over the floor.


I took EM's suggestion and bought some .020 thick styrene (aka plasticard) for the airfoil/rear wing. I got some really nice cuts and the various parts were looking fairly prototypical, but I had all kinds of problems when I attempted to glue the stuff together. The .020 styrene is so thin that I actually find it difficult to cut a slot in the different parts -- at least I can't figure out a way -- so it's extremely problematic to get a good bond between each segment. What kind of tools do you guys use to cut "mating slots" in thin styrene/plasticard? As far as adhesives, I tried both CA glue and epoxy and neither was working. Maybe I need a thicker, faster acting CA glue?

Anyway, I'm frustrated to say the least. Should I try brass and solder the airfoil together? I don't want to make the car too top heavy. Or, should I buy a Patto's Vac-formed version of the 312B and try to cut the wing off of that body and somehow attach it to the Classic shell? Ugh...

Regardless of what material I use for the rear wing, I have decided to follow EM's suggestion on the piano wire for the roll bar and the bottom frame for the airfoil. I'll try to work something up this weekend.

Any suggestions are MUCH appreciated!


Thanks,
Steve
 

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Jim Moyes
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I don't know if you can get it in your part of the world, but there is a great product, especially for joining plasticard together, called Plastic Weld. I saw a bottle of it on Phil Smith's work area picture. No good for joining plastic to other materials, though!

Mr.M
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for the feedback guys. Actually, I have a bottle of Plastic Weld and I tried that as well. The problem is I was attempting to join the side "plates" to the wing and the glue really didn't have anything to grab onto. So, I could not get the side plates to hold their position. I guess I could try a tab approach or something. Russell, great picture and, yes, it will help. As suggested, I may try to build the wing around a piano wire frame.

The only other thing I can think of is to build it out of thin brass. I may try this as well. I have some ideas floating around in my head.

Thanks again,
Steve
 

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Peter Farrell
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Looking at this thread and the amount of information everyone seems to posses, I am hoping that there just might, among you, be someone that can point me in the direction of an accurate set of drawings and dimensions for the 1960 Ferrari 256P F1. I have the Balsa wood block, the scalpel, sand paper et al, and I dying to start cutting scraping and sanding.
Thank you Gentlemen in anticipation.
Alfetta.
 
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