Very ambitious project.

How would you do the rails?

 

Hi JasonB

I'm hoping I can take the rails off a Scaley R3 banked and use them on the flipped curve. I must check that more closely now that you ask. Length should be OK but I suppose they might have a slight bend the wrong way. Do you know if that would be practical? Have I got any other options?

 

I suspect that the slight bend in the wrong direction might be a problem, but I've obviously never tried it, so I'm only guessing.

 

Perhaps use copper tape as you are running magless.

 

QUOTE (racerunner @ 21 Aug 2016, 02:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>All four curves are sitting at 10 degrees to the table. I have to admit that, in terms of slot cars performing on track, it looks like a recipe for misery, not fun.
However, if you tilt the assembly 10 degrees so that the leading edges are horizontal, you get this:
Any thoughts?
And if you raise the trailing edge: Eau Rouge. Yay!.
Good luck.

Michael
ps How large a piece can your 3D printer print? Talking with Slot.it's Maurizio, be described 3D printed lane changers for Ninco that were three straights (1.2m) long, the idea being that they could be taken at full speed. With the current printer technology however the costs were prohibitive. Something to look forward to though.

 

JasonB: You have really got me scratching my head now! Thanks for the heads-up before I got too far down the 'track'.

Mr M: I have to confess to having some magnet cars in the cupboard for variety for visitors. I'd prefer steel rails if possible. Thanks for the option though.

MSM: My printer sure isn't that big! I will have to make these curves in pieces and connect them somehow. The bed of my printer is 250mm x 320mm. Thanks for the good wishes.

 

Nice concept and would be an interesting combination to drive.

Should be possiblal to transplant the rails form a regular R3 over to the 3DP track, that's the way the german guys make all their custom Carrera pieces.

On your print bed you could print the track as 1/2 corners or maybe even 1/3 just copy the regular scalex connections

If I may suggest, to aid the transition between the regular banked Scalex curve and the 3DP tracks you could also design the borders to overlap the connection between them.

good luck with the project

with kind regards
Tamar.

p.s. The cost Maurizio calculated for (SLS) printing the 3 XLC track pieces were around the €500 mark. But that was for out sourced printing.
Since you have your own (filament) printer its should be just material time and a bit of juice

 

Good luck with the project

Having experimented with a few degrees of banking, I was surprised at what a big difference it made - noticeable extra grip with just a few degrees of banking and a big loss of grip with just a few degrees off camber (negative banking).
Let me be clear, this was on routed wood with copper braid, so there was absolutely no magnet attraction.
It would be interesting to see how much magnet traction would change that picture.

 

He's going to need to customize the rails by modifying some existing rails. The bend in the OEM banked R3 is the wrong direction, being concave rather than convex. I'm not sure if the length is the same as a standard R3 rail, though. If it is, you might be able to use those and have less bending to do. Either way, you'll need to "kerf" the sides of the rails so that it CAN bend the other way. If you don't, you'll have kinks going into the slot, which would be terrible. But, taking the width of your cutting tool out of both sides of the rail (U-shape) every half inch or so should allow you to make a fairly smooth bend that fits the printed track piece.

 

My club runs on one track that has a section that is crowned, you really need to stay awake for that one. Having a section that goes from a slight bank to a slight crown would be even more difficult. If you expect to hold formal races on the track you could expect a lot of crashes in that section. If this was to be a routed track it would be better to make that section a separate module. If it turned out to be a major PITA you could change it more easily.

 

QUOTE (300SLR @ 22 Aug 2016, 12:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Good luck with the project

Having experimented with a few degrees of banking, I was surprised at what a big difference it made - noticeable extra grip with just a few degrees of banking and a big loss of grip with just a few degrees off camber (negative banking).
Let me be clear, this was on routed wood with copper braid, so there was absolutely no magnet attraction.
It would be interesting to see how much magnet traction would change that picture.

Over the past 3 decades I've designed several 4 and 6 lane clubtracks which limits the amount of different curve radii to one or two.
So whenever I could I used different degrees of banking to every corner to increase the variables.

QUOTE (MrFlippant @ 22 Aug 2016, 15:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>He's going to need to customize the rails by modifying some existing rails. The bend in the OEM banked R3 is the wrong direction, being concave rather than convex.
That's why I suggested to use the flat R3 as a donor, but it might be helpfull to have a buck made (milled or 3Dprinted)
As the track will be printed in parts, the lenght wont be an issue, although you might need 3 standard R3's to make the 2 flipped R3's

with kind regards
Tamar

 

QUOTE (racerunner @ 21 Aug 2016, 12:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi JasonB

I'm hoping I can take the rails off a Scaley R3 banked and use them on the flipped curve. I must check that more closely now that you ask. Length should be OK but I suppose they might have a slight bend the wrong way. Do you know if that would be practical? Have I got any other options?

I've been thinking about this idea a bit more carefully, and I hope you don't mind me making a few more observations.

The first problem is how to do the rails, as has been discussed. I don't think you can just use the existing rails, because of the angle. As others have suggested, their may well be ways around that, but all of them will involve extra complexity and expense. Having said that, their may well be some mileage in developing a copper tape system, which would free you up for any number of alternative track ideas, like R5s, R6s, humps and bumps, or whatever. But it would have to connect properly to existing rails, and that might be difficult.

The second problem is that if you keep the 10 degree banking you've probably got a recipe for lots of deslots, as you said, and in some ways that spoils the point of a banked corner. But if you tilt it so that it's flat, as you've shown, you end up with what is essentially a series of flat R3 corners with an elevation change. Admittedly it would be a very nice and smooth elevation change, but I think you could probably achieve a similar effect by carefully bending existing R3s slightly.

I'm not normally one for discouraging people, but in this instance, I suspect it might be more effort and expense than the end result might justify. Just my opinion.

 

Thanks for all the comments. Much appreciated.

JasonB: I'm not too worried about value for effort. It's purely a hobby for me. If it's a dud in the end I will be disappointed but will have enjoyed the journey. Thanks for expressing your concern all the same.

Have been doing some exploration on CAD to see how rails compare for R3 10 degree concave and R3 10 degree convex. Turns out they are the same! Three views of the same model below:

When you think about it, the co-incident grooves illustrated above are both horizontal contours of the same cone (the cone is flipped upside down to get the concave curve). Therefore, the slots in both curves are simply segments of a circle.

Next question is: Do the metal rails on an R3 banked curve have the 10 degree angle built in to their shape? I have just had a close look at two such rails and they have come off the track looking square-section to me. So if they've been manufactured relying on a bit of distortion one way, I reckon they'll distort the other way OK too.

So now I'm feeling confident the rails will suit the proposed flipped curve without modification.

So unless I've missed something, it might be time for a bit of track design...

 

My first track piece of a flipped curve. It printed overnight last night - a 13 hour print. 140g of PLA plastic - about $7 Australian.

As you can see, I have opted for a 22.5 degree piece - the same as a Scaley R3 in Top View. The ends are horizontal - 8mm thick all the way along. There is a hump in the middle - as seen by the contour lines of the print - printed in 0.1mm layers.

The metal rails off an ordinary Scaley R3 fitted straight on, no drama. The longer two rails are about 1mm too long -my mistake. The gap between the rails is a bit skinny, but most of the guide blades I tested slid through OK.

This picture of the underside shows the 10 holes needed. I don't like the way my printer attempts to do support material, so I included scaffold in the design (scaffold had been removed when this picture was taken).

My original intention was to make the track piece in two pieces (one per lane) with wedge-cross-section, so that the contour lines would be consistent across the surface. But it started to get very fiddly designing the joining tabs and holes and scaffold on a 10 degree angle. This then pushed me to using horizontal ends (as seen in above pics) and also to 0.1mm layer height instead of the 0.3mm layer I am used to. But my printer handled that no worries - in fact, it might even be happier doing 0.1mm layers - I didn't get the distortion with this print that has been a battle in the past.

Thanks for reading. Comments and suggestions welcome.

 

Hi, The end result you are seeking (for whatever reason) is fairly easy to acheive using standard Scalextric flat radius curves. Radius 2 or radius3 for example, because Scalextric Flexi track is flexible and very forgiving. To create 10 degree risers and banked and compound banked curves I build; (using 1/4" ply); a contoured base for the track to lay on. Building the base sections is simple using Scalextrics dimensions and geometry. If you are only wanting an S type arrangement with both possitive and negative cambers on your flat base table it will be one of the simplest of beds. I make all mine with a standard Scalextric track width pluss 4" for 2" borders, so 10 1/4" wide. Cut your 1/4" ply to the shape and module length of your choice. You can duplicate the bed shape as a base for fixing,to or fix to your table top, or fix the section to its own base board. Make a quantity of 10 degree wooden Fox wedges 10" long and assemble your track bed on to your chosen base board using carpentry clamps with your Fox wedges placed strategically to create the possitive and negative cambers you want When you are satisfied with your set up reassemble again using PVA glue , clamping , and panel pinning and screw the assembly to its base.The jigged bed will need at least 2 days for the PVA to cure. For your simple track bed you could actually use 1/8" ply wood which will be easier to twist through the compound camber angles. I have somtimes needed to dampen my plywood to acheive enough flexibility as I have found that some ply is very flexible whilst some is quite rigid. Your Scalextric flat radius will twist and follow this contoured track bed often requiring no fixing. My elevated assending and decending sections shown begin level then twist RH positive through diving negative to level out All Scalextric cars I have can handle this set up, even the very low ground clearance McLaren at 1.5mm GC. But not for learner drivers.

 

My common sense tells me I should leave this alone having switched off for the day,but my brain said is this April First? So here we go again. Are you just doing this to test a theory in 3D printing and for no practical end result.? I ask because if all you are trying to create is a possitive to negative to positive S chicane in Scalextric Sport track and see it working? Just take a bunch of R3 Banked curves and a bunch of R3 0r R2 standard curves and put them togeather as you want your chicane to be. Now fit the 10 degree wedges supplied with the banked curves and carry on fitting them around the inside of the standard radius. The R3 banked curves will love it as it follows through with a natural flow of 10degree positive to 10degree negative camber. It took me about 5 minutes to try this layout. I would not concider driving any of my treasured cars on such a horrible configueration of track. Anyway good luck with your 3D printing.

Bryan B.

 

Hi Lone Racer,

Nice work with the plywood. I see that it is a highly effective, efficient way to achieve undulations with Scalextric track. Perhaps the only advantage my system will have is that I will be able to store it in a shoe box!

The other advantages for me are that I get to play geometry, learn FreeCAD better, and learn new things about my 3D printer.

Thanks for your comments all the same.

 

QUOTE (racerunner @ 26 Sep 2016, 03:15) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Lone Racer,

Nice work with the plywood. I see that it is a highly effective, efficient way to achieve undulations with Scalextric track. Perhaps the only advantage my system will have is that I will be able to store it in a shoe box!

The other advantages for me are that I get to play geometry, learn FreeCAD better, and learn new things about my 3D printer.

Thanks for your comments all the same.

Hi Racerunner, Your Work with CAD and study of geometry in design work is the best reason in the world for persisting with your projects, and of course the possible capabilities of your 3D printer is equally important. I make ply modules to duplicate every track configueration possible with Scalextric track. Though my layouts look permenent they are not, they consist entirely of modules matching all Scalextric track dimensions and geometry. I change my layouts regularly which is quick and easy. The downside for most people would be storage of spare modules, mine occupy about 3 cubic mtrs and still growing. If you finish your "death trap" chicane section, I challenge you to try to drive a Scalextric2015-16 McLaren through it ! LOL.. Keep on keeping on. Good luck.

Bryan B.

 

This is a very cool application of this type of work. Nice job!

 

Anyway keep up the good work.
Even if this particular thing could be done otherwise, what you learn will be useful for future projects.
Good luck with it!

 

QUOTE (snowmanf @ 27 Sep 2016, 15:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Anyway keep up the good work.
Even if this particular thing could be done otherwise, what you learn will be useful for future projects.
Good luck with it!

By self learning CAD as a novice in the 80s I saved myself Hundreds of thousands of pounds in House building projects for decades. KEEP ON KEEPING ON. Regards Bryan B.

 

I put all the pieces together during the week and had the lads over for a few races today. We ended up just calling it "the hill".

Here's a short YouTube linky to give an idea how the cars perform - these are V8Supercars with front magnet.

The hill was a resounding success - thumbs-up all round. Definitely gave that "something different" challenge. The lads were discussing how to incorporate it in the next track design - one stayed back and started designing a new track based around "the hill" followed immediately by a hairpin!

From my point of view it was satisfying to see it all come together well. But if I ever print track pieces again I reckon I'll use braid or copper tape, because those Scaley metal rails were difficult to get right (just as a number of experienced people tried to tell on the first page of this thread!).

I am really happy with the shape of it. When my daughter looked at it, she said, "It's so smooth." It flows beautifully from piece to piece. Having said that, the micro surface is quite rough, like Ninco track, because it's a printed surface.

How long before slot car manufacturers sell boutique track pieces, like flipped curves, made to order?

What's next for the next project? I'm thinking maybe a Karussel - R2 inner lane printed in white at an angle and attaching it to a flat R2 outer lane. Any other ideas out there for 3d printing?

 

Hi Peter, Congratulations for your persistence and single minded endurance achieving your target. You have proved that you are able to cad design and 3D manufacture track sections which I think is a first. You have shown that you could design and produce a variety of track configurations not available in standard Scalextric Sport track. I enjoy hacking and chopping Scalextric track to create non standard pieces for layouts which would be much easier to create with routed wooden track but I prefer the steel rails of Scalextric and Carrera and the changeability of my semi permanent layouts. I think there are probably several track piece types in the old Scalextric Classic track that many of us would like to incorporate into our Sports Digital layouts and pieces like converter adaptors for example for joining Scalextric Sports track to Carrera 132/124 track. I would quite like to add chicane bends and straights to sections of my digital layouts (two slots 1" apart) as we did with the old analogue Classic track, Which is a major hacking job with sports track and not ideal using converters and shallow slot.Classic chicane. It may be there are opportunities for you to capitalise on this. Best Regards Happy new year. Bryan B.

 

Hi Lone Racer,

Thanks for the kind words. It takes a fellow track-hacker to really appreciate the effort involved. Thanks for the ideas about possible projects - ideas that expand my thinking cos I live in an SSD world - not really familiar with Carrera or old Classic track specialty pieces. All the best for 2017!

 

QUOTE (racerunner @ 8 Jan 2017, 22:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Lone Racer,

Thanks for the kind words. It takes a fellow track-hacker to really appreciate the effort involved. Thanks for the ideas about possible projects - ideas that expand my thinking cos I live in an SSD world - not really familiar with Carrera or old Classic track speciality pieces. All the best for 2017!

Hi Peter, Yes I love track hacking. I made the first lane changer with Scalextric classic track in the70s and had multi car per slot working before Hornby even dreamed of multi car per slot racing. To even do fairly straightforward things on layouts I have found you have to sometimes be prepared to do a bit of hacking. The simple pit lane entry to two lanes through the pits with the marshals car entry spur line coming from the marshals shed in my layout is an example where minor hacking was required to make it happen. Its not rocket science but its great fun and especially enjoyable when you succeed.

Keep up the good work. Regards Bryan B.