Great start Andy, looking forward to more of this.

Seems like 2012 could be the year for 70's F1, especially as current F1 has disappeared from UK TV screens..........

 

They look like they are going to be great. Can I ask what filler you are using?

 

Hi andi
Great start to a great project
however just a word of caution I think in 1973 the rules changed so that the cars had to have deformable structures on the side body work so the profiles of the cars changed between 1972 The tyrell 006 had this in the form of those black sections which have caused such debate recently of SF
THe lotus mods were a little more subltle but did alter the width to radiator duct ratio on the 73 cars
You should be ok with he classic bodies as they are pre 72 but it is possible that steve wards offering is of one of the later cars

cheers tony

 

Looks like some more great builds on the way Andi. I shall keep watching with interest.

The modifications are already looking good and I am sure the finished cars will be fantastic!!

Cheers,
Philip

 

Great start Andi - I always enjoy following your builds and there's no doubt at all that this will be entertaining and very informative. More please!

Roger

 

It's late. and I'm going to have to read this a little more slowly tomorrow, but great stuff Andi...

 

QUOTE (superhornets @ 17 Jan 2012, 20:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi andi
Great start to a great project
however just a word of caution I think in 1973 the rules changed so that the cars had to have deformable structures on the side body work so the profiles of the cars changed between 1972 The tyrell 006 had this in the form of those black sections which have caused such debate recently of SF
THe lotus mods were a little more subltle but did alter the width to radiator duct ratio on the 73 cars
You should be ok with he classic bodies as they are pre 72 but it is possible that steve wards offering is of one of the later cars

cheers tony
Interesting point Tony. So i've widdened this but not quite as much as the PP car and now i'll have to narrow the PP one!

My extensive pictorial archive suggests that the side pods did evolve but not a huge amount.

Anyway thanks for the heads up.

Andi

 

QUOTE (MAF @ 17 Jan 2012, 20:01) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>They look like they are going to be great. Can I ask what filler you are using?
Hi Marlon sorry, its Tamiya. Very fine and although it does shrink as it is quite liquid its the best i've found.

Andi

 

Nice work! Can't wait to see how they turn out.

 

Hi Andy,

Interesting project again, cars are not quite my theme, but always like to see the master doing something new.
As I sad don't know much about these types of car so I leave the accuracy of the shaping to the experts. But wouldn't it be better if you would cut open the cockpit and put a external driver in it and recreate the cockpit?

Perhaps a tip that might interest you, I read that you use the white Tamiya putty, it's suppose to be finer than the grey one. Normally they say to use the grey one for bigger gaps and rougher work.
But if you take the grey one and thin it with liquid plastic model glue, like glue from "Kibri 39996", that exists out of Ethyl Acetate and xylol (make sure you do this in a wel ventilated area), you are able to thin it from thick to super liquid.
It enables you to work as long as you want, just by adding tiny quantities of glue when it tense to dry up. I use a pipette to dose the quantity of glue.
And the advantage of using grey putty, is that you got a better feeling when sanding a model smooth, you see where to corect, or even ad more for a second time or third time.
I use a tiny glass, you also could use an old very small cappuccino cup. Clean it out with a tissue after you've used it, and you use it forever. I also use a cheap smal paint brush I gives you more control where to lay the putty onto the model. You should try it out, I think you're going to like it.

Good luck with your project.

Cheers,
Danny

 

QUOTE (Nuvolare @ 18 Jan 2012, 00:51) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>wouldn't it be better if you would cut open the cockpit and put a external driver in it and recreate the cockpit?
Yes, it would make it far more beautiful and accurate. The fact is though all projects need to have a particular target and for me this one was about relative simplicity. There is always more one could or 'should' do but if everything one does is at the limit then one can only do so much. I'm just having fun!
QUOTE (Nuvolare @ 18 Jan 2012, 00:51) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Perhaps a tip that might interest you, I read that you use the white Tamiya putty, it's suppose to be finer than the grey one. Normally they say to use the grey one for bigger gaps and rougher work.
But if you take the grey one and thin it with liquid plastic model glue, like glue from "Kibri 39996", that exists out of Ethyl Acetate and xylol (make sure you do this in a wel ventilated area), you are able to thin it from thick to super liquid.
It enables you to work as long as you want, just by adding tiny quantities of glue when it tense to dry up. I use a pipette to dose the quantity of glue.
And the advantage of using grey putty, is that you got a better feeling when sanding a model smooth, you see where to corect, or even ad more for a second time or third time.
I use a tiny glass, you also could use an old very small cappuccino cup. Clean it out with a tissue after you've used it, and you use it forever. I also use a cheap smal paint brush I gives you more control where to lay the putty onto the model. You should try it out, I think you're going to like it.
What I think is fascinating about this Danny is that everyone has there own 'obsessions' / skills. You are clearly a master at painting and finishing. For me that's the part that interests me less. For me tamiya white filler and some tamiya spray cans is all I need to do what I want.

For sure sometimes i'm less than 100% satisfied with the finish or colour match but, well that's me. Maybe i'll change with time but I also believe that super perfect finishes are a thing of the modern world. My Vanwall I actually wiped over with WD40 after painting it to give it a realistic feel and smell.....

Andi

 

Bewdy, more 70's F1 cars. I can't get enough of them.

The March 701 is probably one of my favourite cars. I must look into one of those.

 

701 favourite????
Surely its one of the ugliest ever made...

 

QUOTE (conti_rowland @ 18 Jan 2012, 18:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
701 favourite????
Surely its one of the ugliest ever made...

Certainly was ugly, but it was the first F1 I saw in the flesh and at the time I thought it was the most wonderful thing on Earth. I suppose I never quite forgot that first impression. Also, I'm not that pretty myself, so theres kind of a connection.

 

So work is moving on.....

I made up some pretty basic and ugly screw fixing points:

For my PP chassis:

Now they all have different wheelbases. Actually it seems that maybe the Tyrrell and the March should be very similar with the Lotus being longer but given that the March is overscale the suggested wheelbase just wouldn't work so I've opted for a scale of three; Lotus longest, march in the centre and the Tyrrell shortest.

I built them so that the distance from front wheels to guide is constant so that each has a different overall feel. That way one or other might be better on different tracks.

I soldered in the rear bushing, adapted the rear of the chassis as necessary to get it into the bodies and cut away a lot of the bodies to clear the slot.it crown. Actually that was one of the hardest and most fragile parts of the exercise. It seems that although the bodies were made for large motors they WEREN'T made for PP chassis and slot.it running gear!!

Mounted up they look like this:

Here we can see the roll bars, simply bent and glued brass bar of different thicknesses depending on the effect desired. I also made up some rear wings, using various source material mainly from my books.

(image not found)

The front axles were tubed on the Tyrrell and March and I've gone for something more 'experimental' on the Lotus as you would expect. As I use Ostorero front hubs and they have 1,5mm dia. holes I have reduced the axle and tube down by soldering in a 3mm tube (int. 2mm) to the chassis. This is allowing a very slight wobble but nothing like a scaley standard.

Taking the Tyrrell as an example I then added a little suspension arm detail front and back using brass 0.8mm dia. bar. This once painted up should just give the idea of the suspension on the models without resorting to fabricating anything exactly to scale. Most of these arms in the day were complex forms to respond to the loads being put through them and the various pick up points. I've tried to make each respond to the general geometry in terms of position vertically, horizontally and back and front:

And a shot pre painting with everything mounted up:

Now we're off to the paint shop.....

Wish me luck

Andrew

PS. Deslotted, thanks so much for that photo - that's answered a few questions I had and couldn't find answers to on the internet.....

 

I really like the way you show the process! and the results.........cant wait!!

 

Looking cool!

 

QUOTE (conti_rowland @ 26 Jan 2012, 01:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>PS. Deslotted, thanks so much for that photo - that's answered a few questions I had and couldn't find answers to on the internet.....

No Worries, I've got a few more pics if anyones interested.
That 701 lived about a mile from where my house for Years until sold just recently.

Back on topic now, the cars are looking great Andy and the PP chassis look a treat. May I ask What brand are the wheels and tyres? And Are the wings made from plasticard and how are you mounting them?

Thanks for posting another great build, I always enjoy them and I'm not ashamed to say that I'm more than happy to "borrow" your ideas.

 

QUOTE (FZSsemans® @ 25 Jan 2012, 19:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I really like the way you show the process! and the results.........cant wait!!

For me that's the point of a scratch build forum. I get sooo tired of those shots of a complete car without any understanding of how and why! To learn from one another we need process. Otherwise you may as well post in the RTR forum....

Maybe I got up too early this morning????

QUOTE (Deslotted @ 26 Jan 2012, 05:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>No Worries, I've got a few more pics if anyones interested.

May I ask What brand are the wheels and tyres? And Are the wings made from plasticard and how are you mounting them?

I'm not ashamed to say that I'm more than happy to "borrow" your ideas.
Hi Ted
Yes I am interested in the photos please post them here.
The 1970 cars (Lotus and March) will have PP scaley alu's on the rear with Ortmann scaley tyres all round.
The Tyrrell will have Ostorero rear wheel and tyres all round.
All cars will have Ostorero front wheels (the scaley tyres fit on the Ostorero fronts.)
Wings are of plasticard 'evergreen'. Shaped to profile mostly by eye from photos. They're mounted on brass bar bent and drilled through the body and wings with our old friend superglue doing the work.
For using any ideas see comment above.... Good luck!

Cheers
Andi

 

Thanks Andy for the info.

 

Hi Andi,

Looks great mate, looking forward to seeing them all when they are finished.

The 1970 Lotus 72 has significalty narrower sidepods that the later cars. The Lotus was adjusted between the end of '70 and the start of the '71 season, I think by Tony Rudd, to make it faster. Off the top of my head, the sidepods were made wider, the brake ducts where filled in, and the rear wing reprofiled.

I recently built the 1970 Lotus 72, from the British GP of that year, driven by Jochen Rindt, for the Wolves 3ltr race last November, using the same shell as you have used. Alot of work, but as you say, the scale is spot on.

Regards
Jon

 

Hi Andi,

Great projects!

I share your passion for 1970s F1 cars. The sponsor's liveries were so much more interesting than the national colours used until the late 1960s - especially the tobacco liveries!

As you most probably know, contrary to common belief, it wasn't Team Lotus that introduced full-livery tobacco sponsorship to international motor racing. Although Colin Chapman loved to exploit it that way, it would only be correct in terms of a full World Championship campaign.

In the late 1960s, when Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) was the world's foremost tobacco producer, the cigarette companies were continuously looking for innovative ways to promote their products in the lucrative South African market. South Africa was an attractive place for tobacco companies, since one third of the adult population smoked, excise taxes were relatively low and there were no tobacco control measures.

At the Rhodesian Grand Prix at Kumalo, on the 3rd of December 1967, Rhodesia's Winston Tobacco Company, marketers of Gunston cigarettes, changed the commercial face of Grand Prix racing forever when they announced the formation of Team Gunston. John Love's Brabham Repco BT20 and the LDS Repco of team mate Sam Tingle, "both fine ambassadors of Rhodesian motorsport", were revealed in the resplendent orange, brown and gold colours of the Gunston cigarette brand.

Team Gunston again made history at the South African Grand Prix on 1st January 1968, to be recorded in the annals of F1 racing, as the having the first F1 cars entered in a World Championship Grand Prix fully-liveried in tobacco sponsorship.

This opened the doors for other tobacco companies to follow and John Player soon signed up Lotus, who raced as Gold Leaf Team Lotus from midway through the Tasman Series, with Gold Leaf liveried Lotus 49Ts, driven by Jim Clark and Graham Hill.

The next race of the 1968 F1 World Championship after the SAGP was the Spanish Grand Prix, which was the first time that Team Lotus Formula One cars entered a Grand Prix in Gold Leaf cigarette livery.

In South Africa, where Gunston was the main rival to United Tobacco Company's Lucky Strike cigarette brand, Lucky Strike entered motor sport in 1970, when they sponsored Dave Charlton in the SA F1 series. This saw the start of the "tobacco wars" in South African motor sport, which raged for almost a decade.

The United Tobacco Company (UTC), owned by South Africa's Rupert family, changed its name to British American Tobacco in 1997, when BAT acquired Rothmans International, the world's fourth largest tobacco company. Its most popular brands included Lexington, Embassy, Dunhill, Peter Stuyvesant, Pall Mall, Rothmans and St. Moritz, all brands used to sponsor motor racing cars at some stage or another.

BAT bought out Tyrrell in 1997 and renamed the team British American Racing (BAR) in 1998. They continued to support F1 when Honda acquired BAR, their cars racing in Lucky Strike livery until 2006.

Tobacco companies were the mainstay of F1 sponsorship for more than three decades, until countries began to place a ban on cigarette advertising. In fact, it was only as recently as the 2010 Barcelona Grand Prix, due to pressure from the anti-tobacco lobbyists who accused Marlboro of subliminal advertising, Ferrari stopped using the 'bar-code' stripes on their cars.

With kind regards,

Russell

 

You're right ofcourse Russell, although I always liked the way Lotus didn't just employ the brands colours, but the actual livery reflected the design of the packet. Although it Marlboro who achieved this best with the McLaren cars of the 80's and early 90's (and various other teams of the same period across all walks of motorsport).

 

Indeed, as did Gunston:-

James Hunt was probably Marlboro's best ever ambassador!

Now back to Andi's projects.....

 

Thanks Russell for the history. So fascinating. For me these slot cars are an excuse to do just that - swot up on the history. Fascinating stuff.

Jon, i've got some photos I want to show re the side pods but not until the weekend....

Cheers
Andi