If a motor gets physically hot, HOW hot? So hot that you get uncomfortable with your finger on it for very long? Or, just warm and not too hot for sensitive skin (e.g. inside of wrist) to be held to it? The former is a bad thing, and you need to figure out why it's working so hard to go. A 1/32 hard body slot car with no magnets should not be making the motor so hot, even after hundreds of laps. If the latter, then that's probably normal temp after running a while, and should not be a problem. Either way, if the motor does not have any EMI suppression, you really should add some. Motor EMI is the cause of a lot of strange problems.

 

If a motor gets physically hot, HOW hot? So hot that you get uncomfortable with your finger on it for very long? Or, just warm and not too hot for sensitive skin (e.g. inside of wrist) to be held to it?

It's somewhat difficult to tell since it's mounted in the car. Touching the bottom of the chassis you could leave your finger there although you could tell the motor was "very" hot... compared to another car where it would be warm. The replacement has turned a few hundred laps since it stopped and has been fine since. Just ran quite a few laps with it and it wasn't hot... rather the typical warm.

Regarding EMI the RMS motors are plug and play. Unplug the factory motor and plug in the RMS. Specs are... 23,500 RPM @ 12 Volts, 150 g*cm torque at 12VDC with the disclaimer of only run four at a time with the OEM power supply. I think I'm pretty rough on them... each lap they get floored out of numerous corners and braked rather hard going into them. I'm set at 10 for Speed and Braking.

Time might tell what's going on. Two out of four have done it at least once so I'm guessing it's not the motor per se. Rather some outside influence interacting with it (presuming it's not power supply related). Such as the chip overheating.

 

Can you post a photo of the chassis with the body off so that I can see the motor installation?

 

This post has a close up and this post has a link to the vendor's YouTube install video.

 

Assuming STOCK Carrera chip ?

I'm not real smart but here are my thoughts. Not much Slot experience but was an EE when I was employed.

Assuming... lol that the only thing that was changed was the Motor ........ And further assuming that the gear mesh isn't too tight.........

Thought #1 Put the original motor back in the car. If the problem goes away then you know for certain it is related to that motor.

I actually think that Greg's on the right track here. It might very well be that the chip cannot comfortably handle the current requirements of the "HOT" <chuckles> motor. Adding a suppression cap across the motor couldn't hurt but might not help either.

You could also replace the decoder with a "HOTTER" one <more chuckles>

OK I'll be more serious..... Run the car without the body. Make Damn sure that the motor isn't getting too hot. Easier to determin if you can get quick access to the top of the motor. My instincts here tell me that the temperature of the motor should not be drastically different than the stock motor. But that assumes that there isn't some binding going on.

Now here why I am chuckling....... It very much reminds me of 1:1 Scale racing. Change something <insert Tim Allen's voice: Mooore Power> And something else breaks. Rinse and repeat. In my youth I had a 1963 Chevy Nova. Straight Six....... Put in a "HOT" 327 .......
Radiator couldn't handle the Heat. Front Suspension couldn't handle the weight, Transmission couldn't handle the added stress..... You see a trend here ? <lol>

Regards

Bill

 

Assuming STOCK Carrera chip ?

Yeah - all Carrera stock cars outside of tires and guide. What I found funny last time was how it instantly resolved itself. A few seconds off the track and it was back to running normal. Now my memory is bad so I might be mixing the bad chip I had with the motor upgrades. The bad chip was with the car right out of the box with the OEM motor I believe. It would slow down, jerk and at some point just stop - althought the lights would continue to work. Only to be fine afterwards. A new chip appeared to fix that right up.

After upgrading the motors the issue might just be dying with a little of the off and on. I guess I'm wondering if the motor itself gets "too hot" how would its performance change? Slow down, stop all together, etc. And again since I have seen it with two of the four I doubt I got two "bad" motors.. possible but not likely. I'd swap to the original however I'm trying to get it to do it again so far without any success. Also for whatever reason it doesn't appear to be getting as hot.

 

Hi Charles, I'm the RMS motor guy. I've been in touch with the retailer about the problems you're experiencing.

The size and shape of your track is basically a torture chamber for a "hot" motor. A couple sugestions for you. First, don't buy a cheap power supply like the one you have linked above. All those cheap Amazon and Ebay power supplies that claim to be regulated are NOT regulated. The one I suggest is a Korad KA3005D. https://www.amazon.com/KORAD-KA3005D-Precision-Adjustable-Regulated/dp/B0084JFWNY

It truly is regulated. And you could upgrade to the Programmable unit or the one that goes up to 10 amps KA3010D.

Once you set the voltage and current yoiu hit the control lock button and even if somebody tries to change the setting, ehty can't.

But back to your motor woes. With your constant acceleration and braking it causes heat to build up on the chips and in the motor. And when that happens they both spiral toward destruction. The RMS motors will give you more speed that the OEM motor, but might not be the right choice for your track. You can try the Piranha RMS motor and see how that one works. It's available online and it's plug and play just like the other motor. See how that one goes and post your results. And feel free to email or PM me if you have any direct questions. RMSSlotcars@gmail.com

 

Hi Charles, I'm the RMS motor guy. I've been in touch with the retailer about the probnlems you're experiencing.

Very much appreciate you posting! Outside of "the" issue I have been impressed with the motors. And I agree it's a tough track and I tend to turn quite a few non stop "hot" laps. Not sure if a tire rub might not have helped the issue.

I guess I'm willing to give them a try for another couple weeks or so and if all is good I'm good. If not I can contact my reseller and see what if any arrangements we can make. I don't think they sell the Piranha version and worse comes to worse I'll mark it up as an adventure.

 

With a little thought I might be able to explain some or most of the cause. Can't remember if it has happened to any of the other cars but it has happened at least twice with the Corvette. When I ordered it I saw I already had the suggested Paul Gage tires and when I installed them I noticed they were very wide and fit extremely close to the inner chassis. So much so I mounted the "rough mold" side of the tire outwards which is typically a little "wider" They would spin freely but there was very little clearance.

This is the car I ended up replacing the chip on. When I had the body off I noticed "tons" of urethane dust. Far more than I have seen with the other cars. Cleaned it up and when I went to upgrade the motor I noticed it had plenty of new dust. At this point I'm guessing under acceleration the tires might be rubbing or pretty much have to be based on how much dust is being generated.

For some reason I was looking at the Corvette (at my reseller's site) and noticed they are recommending two tire sizes now... the size I have and a narrower one. Which got me thinking... hmm... perhaps mine are too wide. Anyway I wrote them a note about mine suggesting perhaps I wouldn't recommend them.

Sounds logical to me rubbing could cause the motor(s) to overheat. And what happens at that point is open to debate... motor seizes, chip overheats or even I forget how to use the controller.

 

You might also benefit from gluing the tires to he rims. That will reduce or eliminate the tires expanding while spinning. You can see how much they expand by holding the car with tires off the ground while giving it full throttle. Your stock tires will spin so fast and expand so much that they come right off the rims, and most urethan tires will do the same.

 

You might also benefit from gluing the tires tot he rims. That will reduce or eliminate the tires expanding while spinning. You can see how much they expand by holding the car with tires off the ground while giving it full throttle. Your stock tires will spin so much they come right off the rims, and most urethan tires will do the same.

I think I'm relatively good there. When I true them I see them spin full speed and haven't noticed a lot of expansion. But I'm sure there is some and based on the car that might be all you need.

 

There is not a single digital car or chip manufacturer that does not include EMI suppression either on the motor, or with the chip for the installation to any car. I'm not talking about just the toys, either. Even the "competition level" digital systems require suppression on the motor.

I know that Carlos, and pretty much everyone else in the world, believes that Carrera Digital is a robust system, and it is. But I think this is one of the few things where it is not robust enough to remove things from the OEM system safely. The RMS motors do not come with EMI suppression. EMI is backfeeding into the chip. The fact that you can remove the car and put it right back on and it works fine again pretty much nails this one down as EMI affecting the chip.

Just because you can get away with no suppression for a while, doesn't mean that EMI is not the problem. Some motors are noisier than others as well, even of the same make/manufacture. One motor might not be a problem for long enough to never notice it. Another might cause problems right away... and everywhere in between.

Add a ferrite man, and then see what happens.

 

There is not a single digital car or chip manufacturer that does not include EMI suppression either on the motor, or with the chip for the installation to any car. I'm not talking about just the toys, either. Even the "competition level" digital systems require suppression on the motor.

For those of us following along (and or learning) I presume you mean as pictured... a few chips to address the issue at hand. I went ahead and removed all of the RMS motors (whopping three cars). Gladly the glue wasn't that difficult to loosen enough to get them out and clean up.

I tried to find a contact address for Tek-Slots (Facebook is all I found and I don't do Facebook) to ask if he thought the RMS motors would be safe... perhaps my reseller can find out. I'm not even sure where they came up with a unit as his Facebook still states nothing shipping until Fall or so. Perhaps he is piecing a few together and I got lucky.

 

Well it just got more complicated. My reseller has a Tek-Slots available (for me) and I was reading the fine print...

At this time it is not recommended to tune tires with a Tek-Slots Unit, or run any cars that have aftermarket accessories with the Tek-Slots Unit (such as high performance motors). Doing this can cause too much of a power draw on the track which will harm the Tek-Slots unit and void any warranty. At this time it is best to run stock digital or analog cars on your track to ensure all systems run smoothly and as intended.

So it's one or the other. Right now I'm leaning towards the other. That being stock motors. I think all of this has only happened because I glued the motors. I'm sure of it.

 

TekSlots uses chips to power the lane. If the chips in the cars are surviving, so will the TekSlots box. Since analog cars don't always come with EMI suppressors, hopefully the Tek-Slots has added them on the motor/lane output of the chips installed in their box. Either way, it's at no more of a risk than the cars you're already putting those motors into.

Oh, and I'm assuming that "tune tires" refers to truing tires on sandpaper on the track of an analog car. Definitely don't do that, because that's a sure fire way to overload the chip, especially if you let a magnet car pull to the track in the process.

 

TekSlots uses chips to power the lane. If the chips in the cars are surviving, so will the TekSlots box. Since analog cars don't always come with EMI suppressors, hopefully the Tek-Slots has added them on the motor/lane output of the chips installed in their box. Either way, it's at no more of a risk than the cars you're already putting those motors into.

Showing my ignorance does "over exposure " of EMI cause (or lead to) permanent damage to the chip? Based on the maker of the motor stating...

But back to your motor woes. With your constant acceleration and braking it causes heat to build up on the chips and in the motor. And when that happens they both spiral toward destruction. The RMS motors will give you more speed that the OEM motor, but might not be the right choice for your track.

I'm not sure I want to keep risking the cars... and I presume Tek-Slots provides the warning for an experienced reason...

 

Excessive EMI and overdriving the drive and brake mosfets are two different things. The former only scrambles the commands, and usually clears out after a complete loss of power for a few seconds. The latter creates heat and can physically damage the mosfets. The latter is why stalling the motor can pop a chip.

If you don't want to dig around for the correct caps and ferrite beads, then just order some slot.it ferrite men for those RMS motors. For the love of slots, PLEASE put some EMI suppression on those motors.

SP47

Product Details

Slot

catalog.slot.it

 

I don't know how to do the fancy quotes on Slotforum, sorry.

Mr Flippant is kind of right, but not exactly. Charles, you can add a capacitor array but you definitely don't need the ferrite bead. The "ferrite man" arrangement Greg is referring to consist of a ferrite bead and a capacitor. You don't need the ferrite bead, but a capacitor array will be helpful. PM me and I'll send you RMS motors with a capacitor array attached. That should help alleviate your problems.

Carrera and Scalextric are VERY different, more differnet than Greg realizes. I've done extensive research, including working with my own team of electronics engineers and technicians to help me understand Carrera Digital. The vast majority of people who use the RMS motors don't have these types of problems. But there are a distinct few who have issues, and the equipment layout and usage characteristics are eerily similar.

 

PM me and I'll send you RMS motors with a ferrite array attached. That should help alleviate your problems.

I appreciate the kind offer. My only reservation is if I decide to install Tek-Slots will they be safe to run. Of course this doesn't reflect on your motors as they state not to use any high performance motor with their product. I don't expect a car to last forever however if Tek-Slots uses the same level of chips and the high performance itself places too much stress on the chip I'd avoid using the two together. Rather not take the risk of damaging the Tek-Slots.

Unfortunately I don't know enough to have a clear understanding of what the risks would be and as such probably side on the conservative side and heed their warning.

 

Just click "Reply" or "Quote" ;-)

Carrera is robust... but motor EMI is a bad thing for ANY system.

 

Yes, that little PCB is the EMI suppression. They used to use the larger components with legs, which are still used by other manufacturers. Slot.it have also switched to a PCB like that, attached directly to the motor terminals. You could move that PCB to another motor if it fits the terminals, but most people just use the regular size caps which can be bought by the hundreds for a few bucks. I believe 104 ceramic caps are the right kind for the motor, but wait for someone else to confirm that. @RikoRocket ?

Amazon.com

 

Yes, that little PCB is the EMI suppression. They used to use the larger components with legs, which are still used by other manufacturers.

Yeah - that's what my vintage Carrera (2010) car has.

Easier to solder in some new ones in my opinion. The caps are dirt cheap, you can buy enough for hundreds of motors for around $7 on Amazon.

Which begs the question... why weren't they installed on the motors I purchased? I presume the vast majority is only me.

The vast majority of people who use the RMS motors don't have these types of problems. But there are a distinct few who have issues, and the equipment layout and usage characteristics are eerily similar.

Bottom line unless something changes I have decided to use Tek-Slots and unless they "approve" the motors (which they currently state shouldn't be used) I'll stick with stock motors. To some degree I feel the motors are defective (at least for my use case) and if my reseller will take them back I'll return them. If they would prefer to replace them with the modified version that's fine. If they feel they are good to go as is I'll mark it up to a learning experience.

 

I can confirm the capacitor rating on the pcb. Greg is right, you can easily solder on some capacitors, if you're comfortable with a soldering iron. You could also remove them from your OEM motors and solder them to your RMS motors. Easier to solder in some new ones in my opinion. The caps are dirt cheap, you can buy enough for hundreds of motors for around $7 on Amazon.

 

I think I should post the conclusion to the motor drama. RMS offered to provide modified versions of their motor which I'm assuming would resolve the issue. The issue doesn't appear to be wide spread only appearing on certain tracks. Since I'm going to be using a third party accessory that recommends not using high performance motors I declined their offer and returned to the OEM motors.

RMS addressed the issue very professionally and I can highly recommend them. They did set a track record!

 

Carrera simply use (x3) 100n (same as 0.1uF) caps (probably monolithic or ceramic) in a very simple arrangement... one across the motor terminals and one from each of the motor terminals to the motor case. Works well for Carrera decoders and should be fine also for decent aftermarket decoders and moderate motors. Do not use tantalum capacitors.

 

Going back to the OEM motors worked in reverse to upgrading as one would expect. About two to three tenths a second on my roughly eight second track. Dramatically easier to drive. Pushing the three cars for numerous laps I never deslotted once and lap times were much more consistent. Worse case I simply drifted too far.

If I wasn't going to use Tek-Slots (which makes using high performance motors not an option) which would I prefer? That's not as simple as it sounds. With the upgraded motors one car always felt like a drag racer... vibrating all over the place and far too powerful for its environment. One car got a nice boost in torque and brought it alive. The other it simply made it a little faster. So the answer depends on which car I was going to drive and perhaps even what mood I was in. Bottom line you can always dial them down (via the CU) so you don't have much to lose by giving them a try... cheaper than buying a new car.

 

TEK-Slots ships out today so I'm excited to have some fun. I thought I better hurry up and order an analog car then I remembered Carrera cars are analog with the flip of a switch. I went ahead and removed the CU, filed all of the required notches (to run the wires) and drilled the hole in the round end shoulder. Reading the manual it appears pretty straight forward. I'm debating between unsoldering the existing wires and completely replacing them (per the manual) or simply cutting the wire and soldering the TEK-Slots wire to the other end. This way I woulnd't have to worry about compromising the plastic track, rail or the copper inserts. Both wires appear to be the same gauge so I don't think that would be an issue nor having two solder joints... but little do I know.

 

...Carrera cars are analog with the flip of a switch.

Umm... no. It's just a polarity switch. I'll link a video that explains it nicely.
But, if you have a digital car and a digital track, run it as digital. You can't adjust the brakes or max power of a digital car when you use it in analog mode.
If you really want to run a digital car as analog, then you want to open it up and unplug the chip, connecting the lead wires directly to the motor wires. Then it's a REAL analog car.

 

Just for testing purposes... I want to try analog mode after installation. I presume if I flip the car's switch it should at least prove analog is working - I see from the video I don't even have to flip the switch. I don't want to rush out and purchase just any analog car for testing... rather research what I really want first.

As far as speed/braking I believe they mimic the digital settings so you can't adjust them in analog although you carry over the digital settings...

These settings (as well as SPEED and BRAKE) will retain their setting to each Lane in Analog as long as the A-Power
switch is turned OFF while in Digital (as you may be coding and setting speed and brake separately in Digital).
NOTE: Do not use FUEL in Analog mode. It won’t work for more than 30 seconds.

 

Oh yeah... I was thinking about a digital car on a real analog track. Tek-Slots has chips powering the lane, so they can be programmed with speed and brake settings like the digital cars can. When it comes down to it, those analog car will act just as if they had a Carrera Digital (or whatever brand compatible chip might actually be inside the box) installed into the car.

It's worth noting that Carrera digital control response is not the same as pure analog, so with the Tek-Slots you will never get true analog control. If you get used to driving your analog cars on your track, and then take them to someone else's track, don't expect them to drive the same.

 

It's worth noting that Carrera digital control response is not the same as pure analog, so with the Tek-Slots you will never get true analog control.

Yeah I know it's not the real thing. If it lets me run a few analog cars and times them via the Carrera analog lap counter/timer I'll be satisfied. At least for now.

Got the wires cut for installation. Only lost a couple strands and sort of pulled out one of the brass clips that snapped right back in. A new track record for me! Few days before the TEK-Slots shows up so I'm in the garage for now.

 

Oh yes! I went through every single problem or experience you all wrote about.
So my final setup is:
Got rid of these magic analog/digital boxes. Did a analog / digital switch by myself. The cables of the shown box are thin. Decoders in front of the rails are a limitation.
I used them and the chips justed died. I don't want to be limited to use only stock motors. How should I then drive a nsr? Or scaleauto 1:24 scale?
They always come with super strong motors.
Give Frankenslot chips a try. They can take a lot of current and deal with super strong motors.
Another thing that I got rid of are anti-crash electronics for the lane changers. They can not deal with lots of current either. So they also had to die.
I recommend to get the power supply right.
That is the weak spot of carrera digital.
If that's fixed you can run almost anything on the track with 6 people going wild.
A solid power supply is just the first step.
Use better mosfet in the CU.
Use right cables (4qmm) for the power supply to the rails (every 1-2meter), use the frankenslot decoders, use good controllers and you are almost there.

 

If that's fixed you can run almost anything on the track with 6 people going wild.

Your use case is in another league. I have three cars and pretty much only one hits the track at a time. However I endorse all of your suggestions and at some point I might well migrate to many of them. Right now I just want to see an analog car go round and round.

I'll probably entertain a new power supply next and based on how I like the analog experience I might try my own setup with analog controllers. If I jumped right to the ending the track would probably be collecting dust.

 

You are right! I talked about a race setup.
So I would recommend to try other vendors in combination with your boxes that should be lots of fun. In your situation a carrera standard power supply should be sufficient and there is way less magic needed.

 

i have nothing but 1/32 cars ,,i also have a tekslot box ,i run by my self and nearly all my cars are slot it ,revoslot scaleauto,nsr ,black arrow,sideways and src
most are 21000rpm with the sidewider nsr 25000rpm
the nsr cars do pull more amps than most but i can run 500 laps in a session of play and have never had any problems with the tekslot box

 

i have nothing but 1/32 cars ,,i also have a tekslot box ,i run by my self and nearly all my cars are slot it ,revoslot scaleauto,nsr ,black arrow,sideways and src
most are 21000rpm with the sidewider nsr 25000rpm

I run Carrera, NSR, Fly and Revoslot Cars.

Why did you pick these guys? I'm trying to zero in on an analog car and having a problem narrowing it down since I'm not familiar with any of them. Looking for something like the traditional slot car (back in the day) and I won't be purchasing very many so I'm trying not to spin out.

This was my leader Slot.it but with a little more research it appears NSR might be a little more old school.

 

i also just use the standard carrera transformer

 

I'll add my $.02 here too. I run Carrera, NSR, Fly and Revoslot Cars. Non Carrera cars are chipped with the FTSlottechnik decoder. I typically run 100-300 Laps with a Ghost car. Standard Carrera PS. Ghost car is always a Carrera though