[model murdering]

That "lippage" looks like a tool depth issue, where the shoulder got a little deep. Spitballen' of course.

 

[X2slotbob]

You are upset and disappointed and justifiably so.

But you already know your choices. Deal with Viper or deal with the track. You are a craftsman, do you think you can fix it either with a router or a small tool--perhaps a file or block with sandpaper on it?

Maybe ask for a rebate--with the threat of hanging the whole thing up with potential non payment through Visa and further insisting that they then pay to have it shipped back to their location. If that is the route (pun intended), call Visa first so you know where you stand.

I might try to straighten the track out, but then, I have a long history of bad decisions.

Thanks for sharing the story and pics. Potential viper buyers will now know additional questions to ask.

Hard to believe that actually shipped. Hopefully they will make it right.

 

[Eikonic]

Wow, thanks for all the responses guys. I was told by viper that the rail height would be about .014 and I was worried that height might cause too much down force and the cars might stick to the rails too well. I'm fine with that height now because I recently tried my cars out on someone's TKO track that was .012 and my cars seems to fly off a little too often (with neo traction mags). So hopefully the .014 with be just right.

Now, on to something much more concerning. I just received my Viper track a couple days ago and the routing job is really bad. I'm guessing that whoever did it forgot to program the CNC machine to run a second pass to clean up what the first cut missed. It may also be that the router bit was a little dull and the CNC machine was moving the router around too fast. I do carpentry work and use routers and got the same results when routing plastic trim or Azek with a dull bit and pushing the router too fast.

I'm sick to my stomach right now thinking about the money that I put out for this track. Has anyone else received a track from viper in this condition? Here is a link to some photos of the track, please read the description under each photo. Viper track

yup, actually the last 2 tracks i purchased were badly routed. I had to clean all the grooves with sand paper. That was back in june. Sad to hear that it wasnt just a one time issue. Iv now moved on to making my own tracks so i have complete quality control. Not to mention it looks as though viper has tacked on another $25 per $100 of the cost of tracks. Glad i got mine before the price hike.
My advice for the bad router job is a piece of 600 grit sand paper folded in half and gently sand the routed grooves.

 

[model murdering]

Yuck!

Good pictures. Some of it looks outright gnawed.

From here, it looks like some serious tool chatter, on both the edges and the trough. Too much feed speed. Bad cutter. Worn out head. One or all.

It'll be interesting to hear how they address your QC issues.

 

[SpeedRacer101]

That "lippage" looks like a tool depth issue, where the shoulder got a little deep. Spitballen' of course.

To me it looks like the router was moving too fast and left material behind. A second pass should have been done.

 

[SpeedRacer101]

You are upset and disappointed and justifiably so.

But you already know your choices. Deal with Viper or deal with the track. You are a craftsman, do you think you can fix it either with a router or a small tool--perhaps a file or block with sandpaper on it?

I'm use to working with big routers, I would not even attempt to fix the track, it too soft and brittle.

Maybe ask for a rebate--with the threat of hanging the whole thing up with potential non payment through Visa and further insisting that they then pay to have it shipped back to their location. If that is the route (pun intended), call Visa first so you know where you stand.

Because they took more than a credit card billing cycle to actaully finish and ship the track I think it's too late to dispute the charge with my credit card company.

 

[SpeedRacer101]

yup, actually the last 2 tracks i purchased were badly routed. I had to clean all the grooves with sand paper. That was back in june. Sad to hear that it wasnt just a one time issue. Iv now moved on to making my own tracks so i have complete quality control. Not to mention it looks as though viper has tacked on another $25 per $100 of the cost of tracks. Glad i got mine before the price hike.

When is the last time you checked the prices? The track I just got is now over $300 more than when I ordered only two months ago.

My advice for the bad router job is a piece of 600 grit sand paper folded in half and gently sand the routed grooves.

They did give me the option to return it so I don't want to try and fix it and have it get screwed up and then not be able to return it.

There is another guy who got his viper track a couple months ago so I sent him the link to the photos . He said that his track did not look like mine. See attached photo

 

[SpeedRacer101]

Everyone,
When you try to communicate with them thru email no one will actually sign off on the bottom so you have no way of knowing who your dealing with. Someone there responded saying that if I was not happy with the track that I could return it and gave an address to send it to. I have no idea if Dan is even aware of what is going on. I spoke to him once a couple months ago and it took about a dozen tries to get him on the phone.
Returning the track does not solve anything, I still need a track and can't afford to go with Brad's tracks or TKO because they only sell completed tracks ready to use. I can only afford a Kit track.
When someone is buying a track from Viper it should not come down to which employee makes the track and whether or not you'll get a good one. If I get stuck with this track ( they don't redo the bad sections) you can bet that I will be taking more photos and video and post them all over the internet and see what I have to do to file a complaint with the better better business bureau as well. Can you guys help me with a list of all the slot car forums that are out there so I can post these photos on each and every one of them.

Thanks guys

 

[model murdering]

Yuck!

Good pictures. Some of it looks outright gnawed.

From here, it looks like some serious tool chatter, on both the edges and the trough. Too much feed speed. Bad cutter. Worn out head. One or all.

It'll be interesting to hear how they address your QC issues.

One or both will give that scalloped or ragged edge. Sure looks like someone is cramming the material into a bad cutter. Even with a mint cutter, any craftsman worth his salt should be attentive to the feed speed for a given material. Those blown up edges and chattered slot bases are pretty telling with regard to the bit not working outright, or being forced.

Like Slotbob, I've been wrong before, but that is hardly precision work, and clearly a mess. I'd be wanting some satisfaction one way or the other.

Too late stop payment? I assume.

Bill

 

[Charles R]

You have more than a billing cycle to dispute the charge. Although their remedy will be returning the track to get a refund. If they offered for you to return it I would. Once it's returned if you still want a track from them I'd ask do you think you can do better? If they say yes, decide whether or not it's worth giving it another try. Since they offered you a refund you might not be happy with what they sold you but they are standing behind it. If you received a "lemon" they will probably offer to ship another.

 

[Steve-E-D]

Interesting. Viper is now asking double the price I paid for my test track in June 2022.
I was not impressed with their customer service. The track arrived missing one of the 4 power tap wires. I inquired about it and they said they would send one out to me. It never arrived.
The build quality of the track is fine. There are a couple minor imperfections, but they are trivial.

 

[bassbill1228@gmail]

I paid willy Musgrave at Thor HO Trackside , he took over Vipers track building. I gave my order on August 9th 2024 ,suppose to have been a 4 week wait, not a word from him, NO COMMUNICATION FROM HIM AT ALL. NONE, I waited patiently, I have to this day NEVER received my track, that I done paid for 100% completely. Wished I hadn't. Never gotten track or money. I cannot believe as bad as I was wanting a routed track. I'm 60years old and retired , Hard to come up with that kind of money. Almost impossible. This was my one shot at a routed track. And a con artist, ruined this 1 opportunity for me. Be very careful sending your money to Willy Musgrave, at Thor HO Trackside, you might be better throwing your money out the car window going down the road. Cus he took my order and my money , but I never got my track. And since posting emails, found out, I'm not the only one, their is a lot more of us. Very Sad.

 

[Eikonic]

After vipers last price hike, i started building my own, sorry to hear about your experience. Iv heard the same with musgrave, i never had an issue with viper, dan was always pretty quick to ship at least on the 4 tracks i got from them. since musgrave took over, their prices are higher yet, id suggest if you paid with a credit card you contact them explain what is going on and they usually will reach out to seller, if seller doesnt respond most credit card companies will refund.

 

[c-vroom]

I considered that track but the slot depth is shallow. Longer pins really make a huge difference, as one wants the shoe hang to be less than the length of the pin.

 

[Corkjohn]

I paid willy Musgrave at Thor HO Trackside , he took over Vipers track building. I gave my order on August 9th 2024 ,suppose to have been a 4 week wait, not a word from him, NO COMMUNICATION FROM HIM AT ALL. NONE, I waited patiently, I have to this day NEVER received my track, that I done paid for 100% completely. Wished I hadn't. Never gotten track or money. I cannot believe as bad as I was wanting a routed track. I'm 60years old and retired , Hard to come up with that kind of money. Almost impossible. This was my one shot at a routed track. And a con artist, ruined this 1 opportunity for me. Be very careful sending your money to Willy Musgrave, at Thor HO Trackside, you might be better throwing your money out the car window going down the road. Cus he took my order and my money , but I never got my track. And since posting emails, found out, I'm not the only one, their is a lot more of us. Very Sad.

Hi, It's about a month since you posted concerning not receiving your routed track from Willy Musgrave and I hope by now you've received your money back - or your track. I spoke to Mr. Musgrave two days ago and he admitted that because of an acrimonious split with former business partners he lost his track manufacturing shop. He says he will soon have a shop and is still taking orders. He says he's a month or so behind on orders, but I believe it is much longer than that. We had a Club member who waited months who finally got his money back from PayPal. Mr. Musgrave sounded sincere in his desire to keep manufacturing track. He says he has come up with a new, better method of installing rails and is offering free rail installation when Viper used to charge. The question is: Can he, in fact, get caught up on orders or make it right for people? Or has he soured the HO racing community so much that he will not be getting any more orders? He should put a notice on his web site - Musgrave Racing.com - giving a fair expectation of when tracks can be delivered. People should then only pay a deposit with Paypal or a credit card when manufacturing is started.
I also had a message exchange with Dan Cronin at Viper concerning this. Dan's position is that Viper sold the track business to Willy this past Spring and is not in any way associated with it. He says these are now THOR routed tracks, not Viper. He says that when customers now contact him he does not refer them to Musgrave/THOR directly but gives them a list of four track builders. He says it is up to them to decide where to go. Dan does know about all of the issues that Willy Musgrave has had.
I thought that Viper should have been more upfront with our racing community and posted updates concerning the track manufacturing sale and any issues arising from Willy Musgrave's problems. Dan doesn't believe it's their responsibility. I understand that. Still, it left a number of folks in the dark, thinking they could still get a "Viper-type track" (THOR uses all of the Viper designs) in a reasonable time frame. It hurt our Club - we've had to change a venue - and it has obviously hurt others. HO racing hobbyist deserved better transparency and service.

 

[bswan72]

Thanks for the update. In my opinion, Mr Musgrave shouldn't be taking orders until his new shop is up and running. I'm not sure how he can justify doing this if he currently doesn't have a way to make the tracks.